• Chelsea Manning allowed to have hormone therapy
    222 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;47144814]So the people who first started research on gender dysphoria and carrying out gender reassignment surgery, the people who have done more research over a longer period of time and with far more subjects than anyone else (indeed, the only people to have done serious long-term research on the matter) have gone "we screwed up, our initial conclusion was incorrect, gender dysphoria is really a psychological disorder". That's not enough to cast the matter into dispute?[/QUOTE] It's a disorder nonetheless, but it's a fact that MTF people have a female brain structure. The best way to treat this is to assist with transitioning and convert the body through surgery and hormones. [URL]http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html[/URL] [quote]Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones5,6.[/quote] [quote]Is it really improving quality of life if the 3 groups (people wanting HRT/Surgery, people who wanted and got HRT/surgery, and people who wanted but decided against HRT/surgery) all have nearly identical rates of depression/suicide/suicide attempts?[/quote] It it, studies find that post-op people express little to no regret with transitoning: [URL]http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1024086814364[/URL] [quote]None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret. Dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with unsatisfactory physical and functional results of surgery.[/quote] [QUOTE=Mysterious Mr.E;47146187]Its sad that whenever there is a news post about trans people there is always a bunch of people who want the entire world to know they're transphobic. I dont get it.[/QUOTE] It's largely just ignorance I think. Trans people get it rough a lot of the time (hence they have exceptionally high suicide rates), and until the end of the 20th century most hormonal therapy and surgery was of limited effectiveness. Even then, helping an MTF can often be as simple as using female pronouns instead of male ones. Imagine if we could treat all depression through means as simple as that.
fuck trannys [highlight](User was banned for this post ("trolling" - OvB))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Madtoker;47148129]fuck trannys[/QUOTE] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia.svg[/img]
[QUOTE=Madtoker;47148129]fuck trannys[/QUOTE] blue member with 418 posts and 'click here to see me naked!' avatar Probably a productive member of society and not a complete tool. :downs:
[QUOTE=Solomon;47148216]blue member with 418 posts and 'click here to see me naked!' avatar Probably a productive member of society and not a complete tool. :downs:[/QUOTE] your sentiment is good and all but his ~facepunch rank~ is totally unrelated
tbh the flagdog means more about him than his fp status
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47146477]it's sad that being a whistleblower on the massive issues inside the US military makes you into a villain. No one was killed because of her actions but nope, she's a super villan because she had the gall, and the civic duty, to reveal to the american people what was being done to them, around them, and "for" them. But of course, we should just let the government do whatever and execute "Traitors", right? No, no thanks. The government doesn't need help keeping it's secrets. We, the public, do need help to be told the truth.[/QUOTE] I fail to see how revealing information that could be (and probably already is) being used against the United States by its adversaries is a civic duty. For example, some of the documents revealed the names of agents in Afghanistan which could have lead to them being killed,U.S. Military tactics, and a wealth of other totally irrelevant tactical information that doesn't concern your average citizens . There were many legal channels for Manning to go through if she felt there was something fucked up with what was going on, but she said fuck that and went and dumped shit loads of highly classified sometimes irrelevant to her "noble cause" information that had/has/did have the potential to cost American and Foreign lives.
[QUOTE=MasterFen006;47148192][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia.svg[/img][/QUOTE] Always thought the sword looked really out of place, like at least incorporate it with the words above it.
[QUOTE=Mysterious Mr.E;47146187]Its sad that whenever there is a news post about trans people there is always a bunch of people who want the entire world to know they're transphobic. I dont get it.[/QUOTE] Same reason there are still people who are legit proud to scream from the hills, "I hate fags!" Society hasn't reached the point where homophobia or transphobia are universally condemned yet. Hell, according to my Google Chrome, transphobia isn't even a word. We're still, essentially, invisible, and that means we've only moved one step from 'acceptable targets'.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47148603]Society hasn't reached the point where homophobia or transphobia are universally condemned yet. Hell, according to my Google Chrome, transphobia isn't even a word. We're still, essentially, invisible, and that means we've only moved one step from 'acceptable targets'.[/QUOTE] I think a lot of the issue isn't that people are scared of or hate transfolk, more they don't see it as more than a choice and thus not something to be taken seriously. I think once it is accepted as a biological fact that transfolk are wired as the other gender then it will be much more normal. Before I did research into it and found the many studies and research currently suggesting that there might be bilogical causes to the way a transgendered person feels about their gender, I thought of the issue similar to how I feel about otherkin people insisting to be thought of as a different species. I think many of the people in this thread you choose to label as transphobic still view the issue as a choice.
[QUOTE=sasherz;47148783]I think a lot of the issue isn't that people are scared of or hate transfolk, more they don't see it as more than a choice and thus not something to be taken seriously. I think once it is accepted as a biological fact that transfolk are wired as the other gender then it will be much more normal. Before I did research into it and found the many studies and research currently suggesting that there might be bilogical causes to the way a transgendered person feels about their gender, I thought of the issue similar to how I feel about otherkin people insisting to be thought of as a different species. I think many of the people in this thread you choose to label as transphobic still view the issue as a choice.[/QUOTE] Protip: don't use the word transgendered. It suggests something happened to us, like getting cut with a giant pair of de-cissors. Because some people can't grasp this simple concept: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joanne-herman/transgender-or-transgende_b_492922.html[/url] [url]http://time.com/3630965/transgender-transgendered/[/url] [url]http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender[/url]
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47144276]The Government pays for every active duty service members healthcare already.[/QUOTE] well then i guess it's silly that they won't provide proper treatment for everyone and that they need a media scandal to do something
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47148367]I fail to see how revealing information that could be (and probably already is) being used against the United States by its adversaries is a civic duty. For example, some of the documents revealed the names of agents in Afghanistan which could have lead to them being killed,U.S. Military tactics, and a wealth of other totally irrelevant tactical information that doesn't concern your average citizens . There were many legal channels for Manning to go through if she felt there was something fucked up with what was going on, but she said fuck that and went and dumped shit loads of highly classified sometimes irrelevant to her "noble cause" information that had/has/did have the potential to cost American and Foreign lives.[/QUOTE] well, for one, the evidence we have indicates that nobody was killed as a result of the leaks. [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/bradley-manning-sentencing-hearing-pentagon[/url] [QUOTE]The US counter-intelligence official who led the Pentagon's review into the fallout from the WikiLeaks disclosures of state secrets told the Bradley Manning sentencing hearing on Wednesday that no instances were ever found of any individual killed by enemy forces as a result of having been named in the releases.[/QUOTE] for another, most of the afghan war documents "revealed" what most people already knew. the content itself wasn't new, the main significance of the event was that the leak was huge and that it rekindled national discussion regarding the war's necessity and success.
"Evidence indicates nobody was killed" isn't the same as "no evidence exists that anybody was killed"
[QUOTE=Tone Float;47149885]"Evidence indicates nobody was killed" isn't the same as "no evidence exists that anybody was killed"[/QUOTE] yes but the scientific method lends credibility to ideas that have evidence to support them and does the opposite for ideas that do not until evidence to the contrary appears, which you could imagine would be plentiful what with the whole gigantic advanced international intelligence network thing that we have, then we have no reason to believe that a significant number of lives were lost due to this information i think that terrorist networks have a bit more to focus their time and resources on than poring through hundreds of pages of useless info in a language that they might not be able to understand with a shitty internet connection which they very well may not have for names that may or may not belong to living persons within the group's reach
Is American healthcare as horribly priced as it's made out to be?
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47148972]Protip: don't use the word transgendered. It suggests something happened to us, like getting cut with a giant pair of de-cissors.[/QUOTE] Technically something did happen before birth. I.e the body didn't develop the way it was meant to develop.
[QUOTE=Deng;47151115]Technically something did happen before birth. I.e the body didn't develop the way it was meant to develop.[/QUOTE] Would you call someone gayed or lesbianed?
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47151179]Would you call someone gayed or lesbianed?[/QUOTE] There is a significant qualitative difference. Gay people don't need to transition to feel comfortable with their own body.
[QUOTE=Deng;47151188]There is a significant qualitative difference. Gay people don't need to transition to feel comfortable with their own body.[/QUOTE] gay/lesbian transgender people don't exist??
[QUOTE=Levithan;47151242]gay/lesbian transgender people don't exist??[/QUOTE] I don't understand why would you get that conclusion from my post? Obviously gay trans people need to transition. They don't transition because they are gay though, but because of the transgender factor.
[QUOTE=Deng;47151188]There is a significant qualitative difference. Gay people don't need to transition to feel comfortable with their own body.[/QUOTE] Not all trans people feel dysphoria or transition. Are they less trans than others?
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47151273]Not all trans people feel dysphoria or transition.[/QUOTE] To the first one, all trans people feel dysphoria. It literally means "People whose gender does not align with their birth sex". Secondly, the reason not all trans people transition is often because many can't. It can be very expensive (especially if insurance doesn't cover it), there may be trans people who don't have access to the necessary medical treatment or are being prevented by their friends/family. To even have the ability to transition, trans people need the money/coverage, often support from friends and family, etc. Not all trans people are lucky to have this. Do not assume that all trans people cannot experience dysphoria, that in itself is a narrow and shallow way of looking at matters.
[QUOTE=Deng;47151316]To the first one, all trans people feel dysphoria. It literally means "People whose gender does not align with their birth sex". Secondly, the reason not all trans people transition is often because many can't. It can be very expensive (especially if insurance doesn't cover it), there may be trans people who don't have access to the necessary medical treatment or are being prevented by their friends/family. To even have the ability to transition, trans people need the money/coverage, often support from friends and family, etc. Not all trans people are lucky to have this. Do not assume that all trans people cannot experience dysphoria, that in itself is a narrow and shallow way of looking at matters.[/QUOTE] I'm saying that not all trans people DO experience dysphoria. Also, when does someone become 'transgendered?' When they're born? When they come out as trans? When they medically transition?
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47151406]I'm saying that not all trans people DO experience dysphoria.[/QUOTE] But they do? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder[/url] If you are trans you experience dysphoria/gender identity disorder. It's the literal definition of it.
trans people magically transform into cis people once their dysphoria goes away
[QUOTE=Levithan;47151472]trans people magically transform into cis people once their dysphoria goes away[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the reason transitioning exists is so that trans people will actually feel like cis people do with their own bodies (or as close to it as medical science allows). I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. It's well accepted that when trans people transition they want to be treated the same way cis people are.
[QUOTE=Deng;47151428]But they do? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder[/url] If you are trans you experience dysphoria/gender identity disorder. It's the literal definition of it.[/QUOTE] There's something that just rubs me the wrong way about cis people deciding who is and isn't trans. Not every trans person experiences dysphoria about their body or genitals. [url]http://genderterror.com/2014/04/15/dysphoria-not-required/[/url] [url]http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/transition-related-care-faq#q2[/url]
[QUOTE=Prismatex;47152020]There's something that just rubs me the wrong way about cis people deciding who is and isn't trans. Not every trans person experiences dysphoria about their body or genitals. [url]http://genderterror.com/2014/04/15/dysphoria-not-required/[/url] [url]http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/transition-related-care-faq#q2[/url][/QUOTE] Sure I agree you don't need genital dysphoria to be trans but you do need it to medically transition and have it covered by insurance companies/a county's health service, it's already shaky at best even for trans people with dysphoria and at least for those with dyphoria there is a medical/scientific cause with fetal development of the brain. It also has the advantage of shutting up the crazy "trans is just social conditioning/construct. It also helps intersex people who were assigned a sex at birth that is the opposite of their brain gender/sex and causing problems down the line.
[QUOTE=Ripmax;47152131]Sure I agree you don't need genital dysphoria to be trans but you do need it to medically transition and have it covered by insurance companies/a county's health service, it's already shaky at best even for trans people with dysphoria and at least for those with dyphoria there is a medical/scientific cause with fetal development of the brain. It also has the advantage of shutting up the crazy "trans is just social conditioning/construct. It also helps intersex people who were assigned a sex at birth that is the opposite of their brain gender/sex and causing problems down the line.[/QUOTE] OK, but not all trans people medically transition. That's what I'm trying to say.
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