[QUOTE=Holylucifer6;42643039]Well the end of Man made antibiotics.
Not natural alternatives that rival even the best of man made antibiotics or beat them.
[url]http://www.naturalnews.com/035516_natural_antibiotics_superbugs.html[/url]
[url]http://frugallysustainable.com/2013/08/food-and-herb-cures-10-natural-antibiotic-alternatives/[/url][/QUOTE]
This is the same webshite which peddles garlic as a cure for the plague.
[QUOTE=zombays;42643669]ITT: People fighting over "natural" medicine and "unnatural" medicine.
Me? I'm just waiting for bacteria to kill everyone.[/QUOTE]
damn ur so edgy, no wonder why you use linux
[QUOTE=Skarr;42643678]
So edgy.[/QUOTE]
I gave myself papercuts typing that
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;42643690]so let me get this strait so long as I use Antibiotics only very rarely they will still work.? for me.?[/QUOTE]
This is grossly simplified, and thus rife with errors, inaccuracies, generalisations and slight fallacies, but I wouldn't really be able to explain it properly in technical terms, so I'll leave it for someone else.
Basically, bacteria evolve rapidly. They also reproduce and spread rapidly.
Now, when a patient gets a bacterial infection, they are prescribed antibiotics.
In the good scenario, the patient listens to the doctor, follows the recommendations and takes the full course of antibiotics. The antibiotics kill most of the bacteria, and the rest are killed by the immune system.
In the bad scenario, the patient doesn't listen. As soon as he feels better, he stops taking the antibiotic course. The antibiotics killed maybe half of the bacteria, but some survived. The survivors might have had a trait that helped them resist the antibiotics. They reproduce faster than the immune system can fight. A new strain of the bacteria will evolve rapidly in the body, let's say S. aureus that becomes immune to the methicillin used to treat it. The patient eventually recovers, but the new strain of bacteria might spread. Blam, we've got a strain resistant to that antibiotic out in the wild. One strain isn't really that much, but these things multiply fast, and at any given time we have thousands of people on antibiotics worldwide. It's entirely likely that the specific strain just won't be passed on, but if it does, then the problems can begin.
Over time, huge numbers of different resistant strains build up and survive, so you have to use more targeted antibiotics at them, and some antibiotics become less useful.
tl;dr We have a set arsenal of antibiotics, bacteria have super powerful research empire scheming up new WMDs.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;42643616]I see you your methicillin resistant strain and throw in a Vancomycin resistant strain.
One of the few drugs that actually work any more is Linezolid, and if that goes down the tubes in terms of resistance, we're all fucked.[/QUOTE]
Well, I've got a new thing to look up for the night. Didn't know the fucker was getting resistant to vancomycin too. We're totally fucked if we can't find anything after Linezolid.
It's resistant to alcohol sanitisers too, we have to use soap for it.
Hand hygiene is important motherfuckers, the infection control nurse will beat the shit out of you if you don't follow it!
I have never taken an antibiotic in my life, and hopefully I will never have to, since it looks like I wont have many options if I did need an antibiotic.
well shit,
period.
Terminutter: I couldn't have put it better myself.
Also, a single random mutation can cause a lot of grief in terms of bacterial and viral infections. Just look at HIV. It changed just enough at one point that it could jump from monkeys to human beings. Then everything went to hell overnight.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;42643784]This is grossly simplified, and thus rife with errors, inaccuracies, generalisations and slight fallacies, but I wouldn't really be able to explain it properly in technical terms, so I'll leave it for someone else.
Basically, bacteria evolve rapidly. They also reproduce and spread rapidly.
Now, when a patient gets a bacterial infection, they are prescribed antibiotics.
In the good scenario, the patient listens to the doctor, follows the recommendations and takes the full course of antibiotics. The antibiotics kill most of the bacteria, and the rest are killed by the immune system.
In the bad scenario, the patient doesn't listen. As soon as he feels better, he stops taking the antibiotic course. The antibiotics killed maybe half of the bacteria, but some survived. The survivors might have had a trait that helped them resist the antibiotics. They reproduce faster than the immune system can fight. A new strain of the bacteria will evolve rapidly in the body, let's say S. Aureus that becomes immune to the methicillin used to treat it. The patient eventually recovers, but the new strain of bacteria might spread. Blam, we've got a strain resistant to that antibiotic out in the wild. One strain isn't really that much, but these things multiply fast, and at any given time we have thousands of people on antibiotics worldwide. It's entirely likely that the specific strain just won't be passed on, but if it does, then the problems can begin.
Over time, huge numbers of different resistant strains build up and survive, so you have to use more targeted antibiotics at them, and some antibiotics become less useful.
tl;dr We have a set arsenal of antibiotics, bacteria have super powerful research empire scheming up new WMDs.
Well, I've got a new thing to look up for the night. Didn't know the fucker was getting resistant to vancomycin too. We're totally fucked if we can't find anything after Linezolid.
It's resistant to alcohol sanitisers too, we have to use soap for it.
Hand hygiene is important motherfuckers, the infection control nurse will beat the shit out of you if you don't follow it![/QUOTE]
Does this mean that people who stop taking the antibiotics as soon as their feeling better are basically just helping the bacteria become stronger and more immune?
Which in turn will make the bacteria worse for those who don't take antibiotics and rely on their own immune system?
Yep. I'm afraid so.
Doctors prescribe full courses so that the bacteria is eradicated. Nearly all of it dies, and the body mops up the rest.
You'll feel better before the bacteria are all dead, so it's possible that the bacteria can survive if you stop taking as soon as you stop feeling immediately sick. As a general rule, take what the doctor tells you to take, and they'll likely tell you when to stop, or your prescription will run out.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;42643784]This is grossly simplified, and thus rife with errors, inaccuracies, generalisations and slight fallacies, but I wouldn't really be able to explain it properly in technical terms, so I'll leave it for someone else.
Basically, bacteria evolve rapidly. They also reproduce and spread rapidly.
Now, when a patient gets a bacterial infection, they are prescribed antibiotics.
In the good scenario, the patient listens to the doctor, follows the recommendations and takes the full course of antibiotics. The antibiotics kill most of the bacteria, and the rest are killed by the immune system.
In the bad scenario, the patient doesn't listen. As soon as he feels better, he stops taking the antibiotic course. The antibiotics killed maybe half of the bacteria, but some survived. The survivors might have had a trait that helped them resist the antibiotics. They reproduce faster than the immune system can fight. A new strain of the bacteria will evolve rapidly in the body, let's say S. aureus that becomes immune to the methicillin used to treat it. The patient eventually recovers, but the new strain of bacteria might spread. Blam, we've got a strain resistant to that antibiotic out in the wild. One strain isn't really that much, but these things multiply fast, and at any given time we have thousands of people on antibiotics worldwide. It's entirely likely that the specific strain just won't be passed on, but if it does, then the problems can begin.
Over time, huge numbers of different resistant strains build up and survive, so you have to use more targeted antibiotics at them, and some antibiotics become less useful.
tl;dr We have a set arsenal of antibiotics, bacteria have super powerful research empire scheming up new WMDs.
Well, I've got a new thing to look up for the night. Didn't know the fucker was getting resistant to vancomycin too. We're totally fucked if we can't find anything after Linezolid.
It's resistant to alcohol sanitisers too, we have to use soap for it.
Hand hygiene is important motherfuckers, the infection control nurse will beat the shit out of you if you don't follow it![/QUOTE]
I was taking antibiotics to fight infection while recovering from surgery but the doc took me off them as soon as they found the MRSA and put me on something else. Am I being irresponsibly by stopping the first antibiotic as the doctor ordered?
no. the resistance is already a moot point. If you continue the first antibiotics, the MRSA gain increased degrees of resistance. If you stop those and take the other prescribed medications, they die quicker.
[QUOTE=OvB;42643907]I was taking antibiotics to fight infection while recovering from surgery but the doc took me off them as soon as they found the MRSA and put me on something else. Am I being irresponsibly by stopping the first antibiotic as the doctor ordered?[/QUOTE]
If the doctor ordered to stop, I'd say to stop it!
I'm just a diagnostic radiography student, so I don't really know much past the basic lectures that med students, physios, radiographers and healthcare scientists get. In the end, when it comes to drugs I always say trust a pharmacist or doctor, they've had the training!
we need to strictly regulate the giving out of this shit.
Could someone answer this:
So i understand that as we use more anti-biotics they are becoming more immune. However say someone who has had no infection and used no anti-biotics in their life then gets an infection. Why would the original anti-biotics not work on them?
Is it a case that other patients are infected, cured, and then some of the newly mutated antibiotic resistant bacteria infects others?
[QUOTE=Terminutter;42643944]If the doctor ordered to stop, I'd say to stop it!
I'm just a diagnostic radiography student, so I don't really know much past the basic lectures that med students, physios, radiographers and healthcare scientists get. In the end, when it comes to drugs I always say trust a pharmacist or doctor, they've had the training![/QUOTE]
I'm a qualified physician, and I can vouch for the validity of pretty much everything you posted.
@above: It's a case of previously resistant bacteria infecting others anew.
edit again: Strictly speaking, the only way to know for certain what bacteria are affected by which drugs is antibiotic disc sensitivity testing anyway.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;42643944]If the doctor ordered to stop, I'd say to stop it![/QUOTE]
Yeah you'd think that would be the logical thing. Just making sure I'm not brewing a batch of superbugs by stopping early.
I have strep throat, if I didn't get an antibiotic prescribed it could attack my heart and kill me. People who use them for viral infections are fucking retarde
[QUOTE=Daemon;42643063]Just bleach everything. Nothing escapes from bleach.[/QUOTE]
Or oven cleaner.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smYOb0uOnRA[/media]
Rheumatic Heart Disease is pretty much a roll on the dice anyway determined by whether your antibodies recognize self antigens as foreign, blame the immune system for cross reactivity and the bacteria for having a large amount of molecular mimicry with regards to human tissue.
[QUOTE=zombays;42643669]ITT: People fighting over "natural" medicine and "unnatural" medicine.
I'm just waiting for bacteria to [I]kill everyone[/I], or turn them into zombies, or vampires, man, that would be awesome.[/QUOTE]
you are included in that package.
So when exactly does the Bacteriophage train start in the West? Post-Soviets already got a head start on that.
It's ok, I've added lazer cannons to my leukocytes to defend against all illnesses.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;42643549]Denying them every time is stupid. I could make the difference between a minorly inconvenient pain, or you getting right fucked up. For small infections and stuff it makes sense to let your body do the most work. But don't fuck around when they insist you take them.[/QUOTE]
If I got severely ill then yeah it'd be stupid, but fortunately that's never been the case for me
I read that people taking antibiotics is not the biggest cause of the infections becoming resistant, the larger factor is the mass production of meat that requires administration of large amounts of antibiotics to all the animals involved. Looks like to solve the problem, a smaller scale production of meat will have to be implemented (meat prices will sky-rocket if this happens?). Also tell people to not take antibiotics if they have a simple cold. Drink some hot tea or something and rest for a few days, don't just shove pills into your gullet like they're fucking skittles.
Man, nanomachines would be really helpful right about now.
[QUOTE=Wii60;42643581]Arn't anti-biotics bad becuase they destroy your immune system due to taking the pill.
not to mention it makes your children unable to fight it properly due to your immune system not able to fight it anymore.[/QUOTE]
They don't destroy it. Imagine anti-biotics as little expansion pack for your immune system, instead of having to go through the pain of having your system adjust to fight your disease (lets say cholera), you now have something supplementing and doing the job for your immune system. Once the disease is gone, you stop taking the anti-biotic. Your immune system doesn't really benefit though, because the pill did all the work and your system learned nothing.
It's like cheating on an exam you're not prepared for, you're not gonna learn much but you're gonna be fine most likely.
I never take anti-biotics or medicine. Does this increase my chances of survival in the upcoming pandemic or can I expect to meet a few Bay Area FPers in a mass grave?
And now we can enter the age of nano machines!
[editline]25th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;42644270]Man, nanomachines would be really helpful right about now.[/QUOTE]
It seems we had the same idea
[QUOTE=Dr.C;42644306]I never take anti-biotics or medicine. Does this increase my chances of survival in the upcoming pandemic or can I expect to meet a few Bay Area FPers in a mass grave?[/QUOTE]
People taking antibotics doesn't matter one bit, people who claim that people who take anti-biotics for minuscule shit are the issue here are idiot.
The issue is that the process we use to put out as much meat as we do in the western world requires a load of antibotics in order to keep the food safe, the bacteria is gaining all its resistance there, not in people
so welcome to the mass grave
[QUOTE=Occlusion;42643956]Could someone answer this:
So i understand that as we use more anti-biotics they are becoming more immune. However say someone who has had no infection and used no anti-biotics in their life then gets an infection. Why would the original anti-biotics not work on them?
Is it a case that other patients are infected, cured, and then some of the newly mutated antibiotic resistant bacteria infects others?[/QUOTE]
Because the Bacterial Flora in your body adapt to them and will pass that onto invading bacteria.
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