Nicola Sturgeon to resume drive for Scottish independence - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mythman;49926567]If the SNP got elected then it would be fine because that's how democracy works - the party who the majority of the people support wins. Scotland has it's own history, laws, traditions and has been it's own country for a fair bit of its history - if you want to argue that Scotland is a nation and should be independent, fine. But Scotland has been part of the State of The United Kingdom for over 300 years now, so that's 300 years of shared history, shared culture and shared law (even longer if you consider the union of the crowns). Germany has not even been united for 300 years - yet you do not get Bavaria (a conservative state) trying to declare independence based on the fact that a left-wing government is voted into power.[/QUOTE] Of course it would be technically fine if the SNP were elected. However, I think there'd be a huge and somewhat justifiable uproar if a party so focused on one area were to become responsible for all despite not being voted for by people in those areas. The Scottish angle is that the conservatives are basically this (and northern England often argues that they're even more narrowly focused on just London). Whilst I don't necessarily think they're right, I don't think the argument is as simplistic and easily dismissed as you suggest. And if you're going to bring up Bavaria then I think this is worth a read: [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11119272/Why-Bavaria-is-Germanys-Scotland.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11119272/Why-Bavaria-is-Germanys-Scotland.html[/URL] His end point is that Bavaria probably doesn't currently want a referendum because Germany's federated system (something very distinct from the UK system) allows it enough independence already.

[QUOTE=shozamar;49926798]And if you're going to bring up Bavaria then I think this is worth a read: [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11119272/Why-Bavaria-is-Germanys-Scotland.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/11119272/Why-Bavaria-is-Germanys-Scotland.html[/URL] His end point is that Bavaria probably doesn't currently want a referendum because Germany's federated system (something very distinct from the UK system) allows it enough independence already.[/QUOTE] But Scotland already has its own devolved government with significant powers of its own already? I don't see what independence would achieve.

[QUOTE=The mouse;49926199]With all due respect, why does Scotland having a national identity matter when it comes to a democratic deficit? Very few people within Cornwall argued for Independence when Labour was in government, despite the fact that for most of that time Labour had no MPs in Cornwall.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought there's actually been quite a large amount of support for Cornish independence recently? Wikipedia tells me that there was a poll in 2003 that had 55% of people supporting a call for referendum on it. Scotland couldn't and shouldn't have extra democratic power in the current system and I think they recognize that, hence why they want to leave in order to get the party they vote for. It'd say it's a reasonable argument from any perspective, even if it was just a county. The fact that it's a huge area with it's own history and society is just an added extra that may actually make it pragmatically feasible, but whether that's true is a separate debate. [editline]13th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;49926825]But Scotland already has its own devolved government with significant powers of its own already? I don't see what independence would achieve.[/QUOTE] Well just from a romantic standpoint, it disassociates them entirely from the party they want nothing to do with. But more importantly it would mean their tax money wouldn't necessarily have to go towards things the majority of them disagree with, like Trident.

[QUOTE=shozamar;49926836]#Well just from a romantic standpoint, it disassociates them entirely from the party they want nothing to do with. But more importantly it would mean their tax money wouldn't necessarily have to go towards things the majority of them disagree with, like Trident.[/QUOTE] But tax powers are already getting devolved?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49927028]But tax powers are already getting devolved?[/QUOTE] Nowhere near entirely enough that people staunchly opposed to things like Trident can be assured that they're not paying for it. But you're right, devolution is one way to partially assuage people annoyed over conservative rule over Scotland. All I'm trying to argue is that that annoyance isn't trivial in the first place.

[QUOTE=shozamar;49929881]Nowhere near entirely enough that people staunchly opposed to things like Trident can be assured that they're not paying for it. But you're right, devolution is one way to partially assuage people annoyed over conservative rule over Scotland. All I'm trying to argue is that that annoyance isn't trivial in the first place.[/QUOTE] I think that the annoyance is becoming increasingly trivial as time goes on with every reform or power devolved.

"Wait, you wern't supposed to say no, we need another vote!"