‘Kill our pilot and we’ll execute ALL your prisoners’ – Jordan, in retaliation against ISIS beheadin - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Binladen34;47041497]literally sympathizing with ISIS prisoners[/QUOTE] Literally not advocating murdering prisoners

The Islamic State does not care about it's prisoners, and as far as they are concerned, they want them to become matyrs to bring more people to their cause. In a realistic outlook though, ISIS was created in miltiary prisons, and no matter how we look at it, these guys are going to continue running around doing holy wars because that is their beliefs. They have already come, and are willing to stay. If you kill them, you snuff out a group of radicals, and stop them from converting other people into radicals. It's hard to say if it's wrong or right, but with all evidence provided at the moment, every jihadist group has it's birth from either clerics or gang-systems in jails. You can only stop jihadis from forming by dealing with both those things. Killing these men may seem horrid, but it could stop another revolutionary group from forming again.

-echsnip-

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47041808]The Islamic State does not care about it's prisoners, and as far as they are concerned, they want them to become matyrs to bring more people to their cause. In a realistic outlook though, ISIS was created in miltiary prisons, and no matter how we look at it, these guys are going to continue running around doing holy wars because that is their beliefs. They have already come, and are willing to stay. If you kill them, you snuff out a group of radicals, and stop them from converting other people into radicals. It's hard to say if it's wrong or right, but with all evidence provided at the moment, every jihadist group has it's birth from either clerics or gang-systems in jails. You can only stop jihadis from forming by dealing with both those things. Killing these men may seem horrid, but it could stop another revolutionary group from forming again.[/QUOTE]Yeah but we need to stop these things from happening one way is to help example Iraq instead of providing israels multiple military grants and money.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;47041497]literally sympathizing with ISIS prisoners[/QUOTE] yep by being opposed to the death penalty especially when its been threatened to execute tons of prisoners, anyone whose sane enough to see how fucked up this is, is a sympahsier

This would be a violation of the Third Geneva Convention, Article 13 (among numerous others). Syria is a party to all four Geneva Conventions as well as Protocol I (but not Protocol II or III, although probably more from apathy than any opposition to them). ISIS may not qualify for Geneva protections, however - particularly regarding their status as [I]uniformed[/I] combatants, as well as their own blatant Geneva violations.

So many idiots in this thread. You realize hostages swaps and negotiations are a step forward not backwards. Zero tolerance "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is a stupid flawed doctrine. Not that I think ISIS should get the money but a bunch of hostages could have been freed through mediation, compromise, and payments. Now they are all dead. For example Al-Nusra has taken many a hostage, none of their western hostages ever got to the chopping block cause they were able to hash out a ransom and release them. Humorous how different our cultures are, where in Japan people are angry that the Japanese government[I] didn't[/I] negotiate and pay for a release.

[QUOTE=NorthernFall;47041018]ISIS Prisoners then become Matyrs gg no re[/QUOTE] Say you've executed them and then hide them forever in a dark cave while everyone thinks them dead. And feed them nothing but pork.

[QUOTE=Aman;47042382]So many idiots in this thread. You realize hostages swaps and negotiations are a step forward not backwards. Zero tolerance "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is a stupid flawed doctrine. Not that I think ISIS should get the money but a bunch of hostages could have been freed through mediation, compromise, and payments. Now they are all dead. Humorous how different our cultures are, where in Japan people are angry that the Japanese government[I] didn't[/I] negotiate and pay for a release.[/QUOTE] The "do not negotiate with terrorists" doctrine is the only functional doctrine. It is a large component in effectively combating terrorism. It just requires an iron resolve to accomplish that you simply aren't going to be able to manage in most nations. It is a rough path, but it is how you keep terrorist factions from taking civilian hostages. If the tactic doesn't work, then they will probably stop doing it. Fighting terrorism in general is a nasty road.

I hope they follow through with their threat. Any member of ISIS is a waste of fucking space.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;47041497]literally sympathizing with ISIS prisoners[/QUOTE] You can be against the death penalty without saying dumb things you know.

What if we threaten them with something they don't understand? If they execute the pilot, we will take all of the prisoners to DISNEYLAND And have a TEA PARTY And treat them with RESPECT And take pictures of all of this and send it to them Your move, ISIS

[QUOTE=Tiesno;47042613]What if we threaten them with something they don't understand? If they execute the pilot, we will take all of the prisoners to DISNEYLAND And have a TEA PARTY And treat them with RESPECT And take pictures of all of this and send it to them Your move, ISIS[/QUOTE] You mean introduce them into measles? Sick man

[QUOTE=GunFox;47042434]The "do not negotiate with terrorists" doctrine is the only functional doctrine. It is a large component in effectively combating terrorism. It just requires an iron resolve to accomplish that you simply aren't going to be able to manage in most nations. It is a rough path, but it is how you keep terrorist factions from taking civilian hostages. If the tactic doesn't work, then they will probably stop doing it. Fighting terrorism in general is a nasty road.[/QUOTE] They almost never get what they want, and they've been doing this for years. Sure as hell hasn't stopped them taking hostages, has it?

[QUOTE=Aman;47042382]So many idiots in this thread. You realize hostages swaps and negotiations are a step forward not backwards. Zero tolerance "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is a stupid flawed doctrine. Humorous how different our cultures are, where in Japan people are angry that the Japanese government[I] didn't[/I] negotiate and pay for a release.[/QUOTE] well for a start we all know somebody's going to be offended no matter what the situation or solution is. If we cured cancer tomorrow somebody would start a movement against it But if america actually didn't negotiate with terrorists instead of just saying they don't then eventually people might actually get the message that no ..they are not going to pay. oh so you have that famous celeb whoserface and her husband dumbasfuck? ..still not going to pay have a famous scientist or news reporter? ...we will mourn the loss but your still not getting anything Steven fucking fry? he will be missed as a great man but let me explain this slower for you not ....paying...a dime. It would suck if i was captured knowing my government wouldn't pay but i would completely understand. Sooner or later people will stop asking because whether they have a journalist or the fucking pope..they know (at least from america) they're not getting shit! go ahead! cut my head off! all you get is whatever's in my pockets at the time

Well, now that they said that, they kind of have to. Not for ISIS, but for anyone else they might deal with. ISIS is probably going to do the dumb shit that they're going to do until you physically take away their ability to do so. Although, being this brutal might scare off new recruits... or make them martyrs and find other people.

Killing prisoners of war is an atrocity, plain and simple. Pretty horrifying to see multiple people in this thread arguing for killing helpless captives.

[QUOTE=NorthernFall;47041018]ISIS Prisoners then become Matyrs gg no re[/QUOTE] Whatever the shits do they become martyrs.

[QUOTE=sasherz;47041176]Don't those prisoners and most ISIS fighter want to die for their cause in the first place? You are giving them exactly what they want.[/QUOTE] They're not dying for their cause though, they aren't dying in combat trying to take more land, they're being executed in some dirty prison. That does fuck all for their cause. [QUOTE=gman003-main;47042127]This would be a violation of the Third Geneva Convention, Article 13 (among numerous others). Syria is a party to all four Geneva Conventions as well as Protocol I (but not Protocol II or III, although probably more from apathy than any opposition to them). ISIS may not qualify for Geneva protections, however - particularly regarding their status as [I]uniformed[/I] combatants, as well as their own blatant Geneva violations.[/QUOTE] The Geneva Convention doesn't apply here because we're not fighting a real country let alone one that is part of the Convention. The Geneva Convention applies to conflicts between state militaries, not stomping roaches in the desert.

[QUOTE=CatFodder;47043268]Killing prisoners of war is an atrocity, plain and simple. Pretty horrifying to see multiple people in this thread arguing for killing helpless captives.[/QUOTE] They're not members of a military, they're terrorists. They don't get PoW treatment.

Way to sink to the level of the psycho extremists, Jordan. [editline]30th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Mark9013100;47043554]They're not members of a military, they're terrorists. They don't get PoW treatment.[/QUOTE] Said Bush, to justify torturing and indefinitely imprisoning people. Fuck you and everybody who thinks the Geneva Convention is optional because they don't think it should apply to [I]their[/I] enemies.

People claiming that killing them off would fuel the ISIS propaganda, I'd like to hear out why you think so. I mean, at this point, ISIS can tell anyone anything and they'd follow anyways. They don't need legitimate proof that the rest of the world is evil, they just can make it look evil to further their goal. I doubt ISIS cares much about bringing solid evidence to their propaganda.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;47043423]Whatever the shits do they become martyrs.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Which is why executing them is not a big deal. The argument that it will create more extremists to follow in their footsteps doesn't hold any water; it's just the abolitionist crowd having a hissy over people being executed. ISIS and would-be members will remember them, but not as posterchilds for martyrdom. They revere the martyrs who die in battle and suicide attacks, not so much the ones who are captured and executed like inglorious fugitives. This is an excellent and proper response from Jordan. It makes the situation and the stakes crystal clear, and sets a precedent for how hostage negotiations will play out in the future. "You kill our people, we'll kill your people." Whether or not it will work remains to be seen. That's up to ISIS. If they can't use these prisoners to bargain with, however, and ISIS kills their pilot anyway, there's no point in keeping them alive and Jordan needs to fulfill its promise to prove for future reference they're not just acting tough when they make threats. [editline]31 January 2014[/editline] Also, all this about "But killing them makes you into a monster too!" needs to stop. Immediately. It's high-horse moralistic crap that distracts from the ony relevant issue of whether or not this negotiation strategy works against ISIS.

[QUOTE=God of Ashes;47041576]what's the point in defeating a monster when you become one in the process[/QUOTE] If anime and Hollywood dramas taught me something, its that sometimes you sacrifice your inner human for the greater good!!

[QUOTE=Orkel;47041200]It's good of Jordan to show them (and the rest of the world) that they mean business and that they're willing to execute terrorists, but it's not a good idea actually going through with it as they'll be considered martyrs and turned into ISIS propaganda, the opposite effect of what Jordan thinks revenge-killing them will achieve.[/QUOTE] Literally any time someone mentions killing an ISIS member they default to "but martyrs!" I honestly doubt these people would give a shit, a group can only have so many martyrs.

[QUOTE=archangel125;47043234]They almost never get what they want, and they've been doing this for years. Sure as hell hasn't stopped them taking hostages, has it?[/QUOTE] Prisoner swaps are fairly common. Negotiations in general are common.

[QUOTE=Aman;47042382]So many idiots in this thread. You realize hostages swaps and negotiations are a step forward not backwards. Zero tolerance "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is a stupid flawed doctrine. Not that I think ISIS should get the money but a bunch of hostages could have been freed through mediation, compromise, and payments. Now they are all dead. For example Al-Nusra has taken many a hostage, none of their western hostages ever got to the chopping block cause they were able to hash out a ransom and release them. Humorous how different our cultures are, where in Japan people are angry that the Japanese government[I] didn't[/I] negotiate and pay for a release.[/QUOTE] Because caving to those forms of demand and funding/otherwise strengthening a terrorist organisation in doing so is such a great idea? The only message that's going to send is "Take more civilians, your demands will be met". [editline]31st January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;47043234]They almost never get what they want, and they've been doing this for years. Sure as hell hasn't stopped them taking hostages, has it?[/QUOTE] No, it hasn't, but it stops them benefiting from it.

[QUOTE=NorthernFall;47041018]ISIS Prisoners then become Matyrs gg no re[/QUOTE] They either become martyrs in jail or on the battlefield, or they continue living and doing the fucked up shit they've been doing. Lose/lose, but if they're going to play hard-ball like this, sadly martyring them in jail is the safer option.

Yeah, do they not realise that this just make's their prisoners martyrs?

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47043727]Fuck you and everybody who thinks the Geneva Convention is optional because they don't think it should apply to [I]their[/I] enemies.[/QUOTE] I'm still hoping for a day when we can lift Geneva Convention restrictions for a mission, like in Blood Dragon.