23-year-old Cancer Patient Cryopreserved after a Successful Fundraising Campaign - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;39307771]You just went full retard, the lower the temperature the lower the energy available to the cells, they're not doing shit I can guarantee it, let alone replicating.[/QUOTE] The cell's process will still continue at some rate, the molecules which drive them won't just freeze in place in the cells, that would be very damaging and probably destroy your tissue. Cryo-preservation doesn't stop all cell processes, it just slows them down to a very low rate from which recovery is (theoretically!!) easy. This means that cells still have to live, maintain themselves, divide and so on.

[QUOTE=Eltro102;39308212]The cell's process will still continue at some rate, the molecules which drive them won't just freeze in place in the cells, that would be very damaging and probably destroy your tissue. Cryo-preservation doesn't stop all cell processes, it just slows them down to a very low rate from which recovery is (theoretically!!) easy. This means that cells still have to live, maintain themselves, divide and so on.[/QUOTE] They are chilled to a point where the activity is a hair above nil, those cells are effectively dormant dude, and they can just freeze in place because a big thing with cryo preservation is specifically about making sure that the water in the cells can't freeze or is removed so damaging ice crystals cannot form.

It is a bit too late, its been 4 days and her brain are already decaying, she probably already lost all of her memory by now.

[quote]cryosleep[/quote] I'd like to inform everyone that cryonics is basically replacing a corpse's blood with antifreeze and storing them in liquid nitrogen, not some kind of induced hibernation or something like that. The girl's legally dead right now (in fact they're only storing her head) and has been for a while.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;39308395]It is a bit too late, its been 4 days and her brain are already decaying, she probably already lost all of her memory by now.[/QUOTE] She moved to Arizona to reduce the delay, so the cryopreservation probably begun a few minutes to a few hours after she started arresting. Yes, there is no doubt that if she'd been left to rot for four days (Hell, even twelve hours) there'd be no point in cryopreserving her.

So she's dead, and all they've done is put her body on ice. Is this just preservation for the sake of preservation?

[QUOTE=ojcoolj;39307934]During Cryosleep, are they conscious at all or will the next thing they see be (hopefully) waking up?[/QUOTE] Unconscious. Next thing they see (if anything) is waking up. It'd be instant for them, however many years they've been "asleep" will seem like no time at all, literally.

[QUOTE=Aetna;39309056]Unconscious. Next thing they see (if anything) is waking up. It'd be instant for them, however many years they've been "asleep" will seem like no time at all, literally.[/QUOTE] They are dead when they get preserved.

[QUOTE=Aetna;39307854]I guess the cool thing about this is if she's ever revived, it will seem like no time has gone by for her at all.[/QUOTE] If she does get revived, she's already awake to her perspective.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39306849]I'm assuming that her brain will suffer a lot of damage due to freezing that might not be possible to repair.[/QUOTE] According to the article, she died before she was frozen. So when they unfreeze her, they'll have to resuscitate someone who has been dead for the amount of time that it took for them to freeze her. Unless they froze her instantly, or within an hour, i don't think the medicine we will have in the future will do her any good.

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;39309741]According to the article, she died before she was frozen. So when they unfreeze her, they'll have to resuscitate someone who has been dead for the amount of time that it took for them to freeze her. Unless they froze her instantly, or within an hour, i don't think the medicine we will have in the future will do her any good.[/QUOTE] Yeah, there would already be damage due to the time taken to just freeze the head, let alone damage from freezing, the cancer, the lack of a body, etc. Great idea in theory, in practise I doubt anybody would recover.

Doesn't brain tissue degradation begging immedialty after death? Like even a few minutes causes permanent damage? How would cryogenics fix that?

[QUOTE=The Baconator;39310009]Doesn't brain tissue degradation begging immedialty after death? Like even a few minutes causes permanent damage? How would cryogenics fix that?[/QUOTE] They are assuming that it is fixable in the future, it is an act of faith.

[QUOTE=Valnar;39310054]They are assuming that it is fixable in the future, it is an act of faith.[/QUOTE] The brain doesn't turn to mush a second after a person suffers cardiac arrest.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39310076]The brain doesn't turn to mush a second after a person suffers cardiac arrest.[/QUOTE] No, but it does after a few minutes. And people are hoping that this treatment will keep their body or head in a liveable state for an indeterminate amount of time.

[QUOTE=Valnar;39310098]No, but it does after a few minutes. And people are hoping that this treatment will keep their body or head in a liveable state for an indeterminate amount of time.[/QUOTE] Feline neurons show perfect structural integrity and lysosomal function even after two hours of warm ischemia. Obstructing the central cerebral arteries of rats found necrosis in the brain only started after 4 hours. After 6 hours, 15% of neurons were necrotic, 65% after 12 hours. Rat neurons can recover complete function after up to five hours post-mortem. Neuronal tissue extracted from elderly humans shows that after 2 weeks in vitro, 70 to 90 percent of the cells were viable. And no, cryonics by definition doesn't keep cells 'livable', maybe just 'viable'. They are frozen, not in the conventional sense, but in the sense that all biological processes - including decomposition - are arrested. That doesn't mean they are alive, but it means you can preserve enough structure, enough information about the original that in the future it may be possible to bring that structure back to metabolic function.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39310076]The brain doesn't turn to mush a second after a person suffers cardiac arrest.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but 5 - 10 minutes after the brain stops receiving oxygen you start getting irreparable brain damage (it can be longer in the very young or if you are exposed to a low temperature). If it's true about that company leaving people on the slab at ambient temperatures for an hour then I'm not sure there'd actually be enough of a person in the brain to come back.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39310200]Feline neurons show perfect structural integrity and lysosomal function even after two hours of warm ischemia. Obstructing the central cerebral arteries of rats found necrosis in the brain only started after 4 hours. After 6 hours, 15% of neurons were necrotic, 65% after 12 hours. Rat neurons can recover complete function after up to five hours post-mortem. Neuronal tissue extracted from elderly humans shows that after 2 weeks in vitro, 70 to 90 percent of the cells were viable. And no, cryonics by definition doesn't keep cells 'livable', maybe just 'viable'. They are frozen, not in the conventional sense, but in the sense that all biological processes - including decomposition - are arrested. That doesn't mean they are alive, but it means you can preserve enough structure, enough information about the original that in the future it may be possible to bring that structure back to metabolic function.[/QUOTE] Like I said, it is an act of faith.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39310209]Yeah, but 5 - 10 minutes after the brain stops receiving oxygen you start getting irreparable brain damage (it can be longer in the very young or if you are exposed to a low temperature). If it's true about that company leaving people on the slab at ambient temperatures for an hour then I'm not sure there'd actually be enough of a person in the brain to come back.[/QUOTE] The brain is a very delicate thing. A small amount of damage can prevent a person from 'waking up', but the fact that function has stopped doesn't mean that the underlying structures - which hold memories, personality* - are gone. Those take a little longer to decay. It's like how your computer can still hold files even if you remove the memory and the power supply. If you press the power button, nothing will happen, but if you put the memory back and connect it to a power supply the files will still be there. * We know memory and personality are [I]not[/I] dependent on the instantaneous patterns of activity in the brain simply because people have woken up from many, many minutes of electrocerebral silence without loss of their personal identity.

[quote]and now is in stasis at Alcor Life Extension Foundation[/quote] For fuck's sake, she's not "in stasis", she's dead and frozen solid.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39310246]The brain is a very delicate thing. A small amount of damage can prevent a person from 'waking up', but the fact that function has stopped doesn't mean that the underlying structures - which hold memories, personality* - are gone. Those take a little longer to decay. It's like how your computer can still hold files even if you remove the memory and the power supply. If you press the power button, nothing will happen, but if you put the memory back and connect it to a power supply the files will still be there. * We know memory and personality are [I]not[/I] dependent on the instantaneous patterns of activity in the brain simply because people have woken up from many, many minutes of electrocerebral silence without loss of their personal identity.[/QUOTE] Well, I guess that would be the point of 'information death', but I still don't think having your brain without oxygen for an hour plus at ambient temperature is doing to do the structure of your brain any favours.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39310347]Well, I guess that would be the point of 'information death', but I still don't think having your brain without oxygen for an hour plus at ambient temperature is doing to do the structure of your brain any favours.[/QUOTE] Certainly not. Ideally you'd have a team on standby to cool you in a portable ice bath and do CPR until they can get you to the cryo facility for perfusion. There have been some of those cases and they have been very successful, but most of the time the circumstances don't allow for that.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39310365]Certainly not. Ideally you'd have a team on standby to cool you in a portable ice bath and do CPR until they can get you to the cryo facility for perfusion. There have been some of those cases and they have been very successful, but most of the time the circumstances don't allow for that.[/QUOTE] Well, you'd probably want to put them on life-support ideally - at least that would oxygenate the brain reliably. To be honest, I don't think cryogenic freezing is particularly viable - I guess if you're brain is in a good enough state, it would be possible to revive them, but it just seems to be full of 'maybes' and 'ifs'. I understand in cases like this, when it's a life cut short and you and other people would do anything to give yourself a full life span, but if I was in my old age I think I'd just want to be left dead.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;39309429]If she does get revived, she's already awake to her perspective.[/QUOTE] As simple as this sentence may be, it reminded me of how awesome and weird time is. It's like she's already in the future while we're stuck in what is her past. But yeah, she's most likely in the void sadly.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39310491]Well, you'd probably want to put them on life-support ideally - at least that would oxygenate the brain reliable. To be honest, I don't think cryogenic freezing is particularly viable - I guess if you're brain is in a good enough state, it would be possible to revive them, but it just seems to be full of 'maybes' and 'ifs'. I understand in cases like this, when it's a life cut short and you and other people anything to give yourself a full life span, but if I was in my old age I think I'd just want to be left dead.[/QUOTE] Other words it really isn't anything, she just paid them a shit ton of money to remove her head and toss it in a freezer. I don't see how she can hope to come back..

[QUOTE=Zeke129;39308179]I don't know what's more unlikely, us coming up with a way to successfully revive her or us managing to keep her preserved long enough to do so. It's a disappointing thought but it's likely that anyone preserved today will have their bodies damaged or lost before the technology arrives to revive them.[/QUOTE] They are preserved at such a low temperature that even if they do start decaying it will be very little. I'm sure we will in a few centuries.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39307228] The future is a lot closer than we think.[/QUOTE] But it's farther than we would hope.

Wait I'm confused She died, then got put into cryostasis So whats the point? Basically all she did was that instead of letting her cells rot normally on death, she just had them frozen instead. For $30,000. Why? Its not like you can take her back from stasis when the technology is invented, she is already dead.

[QUOTE=KorJax;39310661]Wait I'm confused She died, then got put into cryostasis So whats the point? Basically all she did was that instead of letting her cells rot normally on death, she just had them frozen instead. For $30,000. Why? Its not like you can take her back from stasis when the technology is invented, she is already dead.[/QUOTE] She's not in stasis, it's cryo-preservation, being in stasis would imply the person is still alive and being kept alive. Brain cells don't rot away a few minutes after death either.

[QUOTE=KorJax;39310661]Wait I'm confused She died, then got put into cryostasis So whats the point? Basically all she did was that instead of letting her cells rot normally on death, she just had them frozen instead. For $30,000. Why? Its not like you can take her back from stasis when the technology is invented, she is already dead.[/QUOTE] She hopes we'll be able to cure death in the future, revive the dead. Which would be absolutely terrible, this planet is too crowded as it is, let the deads where they are.