23-year-old Cancer Patient Cryopreserved after a Successful Fundraising Campaign - Polidicks

Cryonics is a thing I will never understand. You try to freeze yourself so that you wont die but the very process that freezes you fucking kills you anyway, and all you do is hope that in the future we find a way to cure you [i]and[/i] resurrect the dead. I mean how is getting your head cut off, your blood replaced by antifreeze or your body turned into acrylic a solution to death? They seem more like causes of death to me.

[QUOTE=KorJax;39310661]Wait I'm confused She died, then got put into cryostasis So whats the point? Basically all she did was that instead of letting her cells rot normally on death, she just had them frozen instead. For $30,000. Why? Its not like you can take her back from stasis when the technology is invented, she is already dead.[/QUOTE] Because it is scam, they sell the hope that in the future someone will revive them (or their head) and repair all of the damage from being dead and the cryo-preservation.

My only concern with cryostasis is whether or not the human consciousness is defined by the sustained flow of energy and information. They may bring her body and brain back to life, but I'm not sure she'll still be in there. Despite having all of the same connections and chemistry, who's to say that she won't wake up feeling like she has a lifetime of associations she doesn't remember or recognize? [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Stopper;39308059]Ok, I don't know if anyone actually read that, but damn.[/QUOTE] I laughed. And then felt like crying. That's fucking horrible - How do you accidentally let a corpse shit on it's own head?!

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;39310754]My only concern with cryostasis is whether or not the human consciousness is defined by the sustained flow of energy and information. They may bring her body and brain back to life, but I'm not sure she'll still be in there. Despite having all of the same connections and chemistry, who's to say that she won't wake up feeling like she has a lifetime of associations she doesn't remember or recognize?[/QUOTE] The brain is an electro-chemical system. As long as she has the same balance of chemicals, the same neurological pathways and a small charge of electrons she'll be fine. Except for the whole, she's dead and no one has any real reason to try to bring people back thing.

[QUOTE=Valnar;39308180]Man, some of the stuff on that page is really bad. Seems like a legit medical facility. These places sound like major scam factories.[/QUOTE] I don't understand how that isn't evidence enough to shut down a facility.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;39310779]I don't understand how that isn't evidence enough to shut down a facility.[/QUOTE] Because technically they aren't medical facilities, one of them is considered to be a cemetery.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;39310776]The brain is an electro-chemical system. As long as she has the same balance of chemicals, the same neurological pathways and a small charge of electrons she'll be fine. Except for the whole, she's dead and no one has any real reason to try to bring people back thing.[/QUOTE] Yeah, what incentive is there to reanimate her in the future? Unless in the future reanimation of preserved corpses is run by debt agencies in the hopes of locking them into repayment plans.

if it actually worked wouldn't the transformation be near instant for her?

[QUOTE=Valnar;39310718]Because it is scam, they sell the hope that in the future someone will revive them (or their head) and repair all of the damage from being dead and the cryo-preservation.[/QUOTE] tbh i'd prefer the hope that one day i could come back, instead of just giving up [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] it's a shame all the companies are sketchy as fuck, though

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39311501]tbh i'd prefer the hope that one day i could come back, instead of just giving up [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] it's a shame all the companies are sketchy as fuck, though[/QUOTE] There's no reason for anyone to bring you back. There's no reason for anyone to research the technology to bring you back. There's nothing to suggest it's even possible in the first place. If you choose cryonics you're basically giving up. You're ending your life in the hope that people have any desire to spend countless years of research to bring you back, that they would even want to revive you if they could, and that the company you choose survives and cares to spend the money required to revive you, find you temporary housing, help you look for emplyment, replace your body, and sort through the metric fuckton of paperwork required. Honestly I'd rather stay alive and hope they find a treatment than kill myself and hope people suddenly get the urge to resurrect the dead.

guess you don't know what hope means [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] wait do you actually think people commit suicide for cryonics?

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39311737]guess you don't know what hope means [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] wait do you actually think people commit suicide for cryonics?[/QUOTE] I'd rather have hope in life than hope in ignorance. I don't believe people kill themselves, they just pay money to have a company perform a procedure which kills them and place part or all of their body in a solution that, were they not already dead, would kill them.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39311501]tbh i'd prefer the hope that one day i could come back, instead of just giving up [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] it's a shame all the companies are sketchy as fuck, though[/QUOTE] Some people spend their life savings on this when they don't already have much. That can leave their families without resources to deal with losing that family member. That is how much this hope costs.

Look, my point is people want to be frozen so that one they they might come back. They never consider the idea that there's no reason for anyone to want them to come back. Say the technology is, for whatever reason, developed so that we can bring back people who are cryonically frozen. What reason do the people of that time have to bring you back? You are uneducated, difficult to educate, difficult to employ, a drain on resources, and you take up space you otherwise wouldn't have if you had remaind dead/frozen. You are also being revived in a world suffering overpopulation, increased global warming effects, probable droughts, possibly increased international tension, and a different cultural climate. It's perfectly fine to want to be frozen so you can be brought back, but you need to ask, why wold they want to bring you back? They don't know you, they have no emotional bonds to you as a reason to revive you. They only have practical reasons and practically you are a burdon.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;39312020]Look, my point is people want to be frozen so that one they they might come back. They never consider the idea that there's no reason for anyone to want them to come back. Say the technology is, for whatever reason, developed so that we can bring back people who are cryonically frozen. What reason do the people of that time have to bring you back? You are uneducated, difficult to educate, difficult to employ, a drain on resources, and you take up space you otherwise wouldn't have if you had remaind dead/frozen. You are also being revived in a world suffering overpopulation, increased global warming effects, probable droughts, possibly increased international tension, and a different cultural climate. It's perfectly fine to want to be frozen so you can be brought back, but you need to ask, why wold they want to bring you back? They don't know you, they have no emotional bonds to you as a reason to revive you. They only have practical reasons and practically you are a burdon.[/QUOTE] Honestly although this whole cryo-genic stuff is a complete scam, there would be worth in unfreezing people from the past, at least for academic reasons. Having first hand knowledge of the past would be really useful for history academics. Also as a side note, the world population is expected to peak out this century and then go down as more countries become post-industrial.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;39310659]They are preserved at such a low temperature that even if they do start decaying it will be very little. I'm sure we will in a few centuries.[/QUOTE] That's assuming we can keep the systems preserving her online for centuries. Power can go out, backup systems fail, buildings can collapse, things get lost. There are tons of fuckups that could potentially happen and ruin everything.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;39306749]One proposed method is just to scan the brains of the patients and then emulate them on a computer. (though this has immense technical problems of its own)[/QUOTE] But wouldn't that just be an identical copy, and not the original consciousness of the person they wanted to preserve?

[QUOTE=Platinumcs;39312062]But wouldn't that just be an identical copy, and not the original consciousness of the person they wanted to preserve?[/QUOTE] That's more a debate for philosophers. If it's the same brain in every way, just simulated on a computer, it at least won't know the difference (other than the obvious signs it would see that it isn't inhabiting its old body).

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;39311834]I'd rather have hope in life than hope in ignorance. I don't believe people kill themselves, they just pay money to have a company perform a procedure which kills them and place part or all of their body in a solution that, were they not already dead, would kill them.[/QUOTE] you're wrong, that's illegal and counts as assisted suicide cryopreservation procedures don't begin until after the patient has died [editline]21st January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Valnar;39312000]Some people spend their life savings on this when they don't already have much. That can leave their families without resources to deal with losing that family member. That is how much this hope costs.[/QUOTE] yes for those individuals i don't really know who you're directly referring to though, since only around 250 people have actually undergone the procedure

If we ever have the technology to revive people, I imagine the world would become overpopulated and by then there would be a lot of people in cryo, so releasing all of them might not be an economically viable option. I'm just speculating of course, I have no fucking clue what's gonna happen.

[QUOTE=slimd1995;39312234]If we ever have the technology to revive people, I imagine the world would become overpopulated and by then there would be a lot of people in cryo, so releasing all of them might not be an economically viable option. I'm just speculating of course, I have no fucking clue what's gonna happen.[/QUOTE] I'd imagine that by the time we have that technology, overpopulation will have been solved one way or another.

[QUOTE=Eudoxia;39306364]No, you choose which organization [URL="http://wiki.transhumani.com/index.php?title=Cryonics#Alcor_Criticism"]less[/URL] [URL="http://wiki.transhumani.com/index.php?title=Cryonics#CI_Criticism"]shady[/URL] to you and they pump you full of a kind of antifreeze.[/QUOTE] that page is so so creepy

so.. what happens if the cryonics company in question goes bankrupt?

[QUOTE=burninplaces;39312682]so.. what happens if the cryonics company in question goes bankrupt?[/QUOTE] the bodies are taken out of preservation and most likely warehoused or cremated

[QUOTE=thisispain;39312276]that page is so so creepy[/QUOTE] It's the transhumanist wiki so I have a feeling the best way to find creepy things is to simply hit the Random Page link.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;39307882]They're dead, mourn them, mourn your old life, get over it. You were given a chance to live again, don't waste it now on endless self-pity, get to know new people and enjoy your new life. You're sterile so no need to worry about kids either, there's always adoption.[/QUOTE] If you wake up in a future sufficiently advanced to repair both whatever incurable disease you had before death and the damage from the cryosleep, they've gotta' have some way of creating something resembling biological offspring for you even if you are sterile. I mean hell even today we have IVF, and I'm pretty sure creating a clone of a person is perfectly possible with modern technology. Not to say that it's legal, but it's possible. Cryo preservation seems like a long shot. Technically it seems to be possible, but there's so much that can go wrong. As others have said, it's a long period of time and equipment failure and clerical mistakes tend to happen over long periods of time. The questionable nature of most of the companies that do this kind of thing doesn't lend much confidence either. Who knows if they'll even bother to wake you up when it's time if you are still viable? It's not like anyone you know will be around to report the fact that they're not willing to pay to have you revived to the authorities. But I guess it all comes down to how much a person is willing to pay for a chance, regardless of how slim it is.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;39312767]It's the transhumanist wiki so I have a feeling the best way to find creepy things is to simply hit the Random Page link.[/QUOTE] it's only got like 40-something pages i was hoping it'd be a bit more complete than that

Wasn't this a bit selfish of her?

how so?

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39312919]how so?[/QUOTE] Countless people threw down some money on an unlikely gamble that she will have the opportunity to be revived in the future. The problem is that the money could have gone to other uses providing tangible benefits to those who have to suffer while living. She could have asked for the money to help others but instead she basically asked people to rip up their change and throw it in a fire.