The Clinton campaign has started pumping out Trump attack ads - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265265]I don't know why he's not allowed to have a personal reason for voting for someone other than who you would vote for[/QUOTE] He's entitled to his opinion on the election. And I'm entitled to say his opinion is bullshit. Like you claiming Sanders does better in open primaries than Clinton does.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265275]if you say "the most important issue for me is no war and that's why I'm voting for X" and then when someone proves that X actually does plan on going to war you change your "most important issue" to something else to justify your continued support of that candidate then you're either an idiot or a liar[/QUOTE] I'm just noting that Cody chaNing his reason for wanting to vote for someone doesn't invalidate his reasoning based on previous statements. I've just noticed that plunger tends to ignore current discussion by constantly bringing up previous statements. If Cody wants to vote for trump based on drug policy then that's what you should be refuting. Not bringing up things you've already refuted to invalidate his current opinion. [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;50265286]He's entitled to his opinion on the election. And I'm entitled to say his opinion is bullshit. Like you claiming Sanders does better in open primaries than Clinton does.[/QUOTE] Like this. You tend to reach outside the current discussion to derail people's arguments and it's awkward to watch

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265295]I'm just noting that Cody chaNing his reason for wanting to vote for someone doesn't invalidate his reasoning based on previous statements. I've just noticed that plunger tends to ignore current discussion by constantly bringing up previous statements. If Cody wants to vote for trump based on drug policy then that's what you should be refuting. Not bringing up things you've already refuted to invalidate his current opinion.[/QUOTE] I'd rather not have someone who thinks the most important issue facing America being drugs (rather than poverty, war, economic inequality, healthcare, political corruption) voting at all. It makes sense why he'd easily vote for Trump.

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265295]I'm just noting that Cody chaNing his reason for wanting to vote for someone doesn't invalidate his reasoning based on previous statements. I've just noticed that plunger tends to ignore current discussion by constantly bringing up previous statements. If Cody wants to vote for trump based on drug policy then that's what you should be refuting. Not bringing up things you've already refuted to invalidate his current opinion. [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] Like this. You tend to reach outside the current discussion to derail people's arguments and it's awkward to watch[/QUOTE] You brought up me having opinions on people's erroneous arguments. I'm providing examples of why there isn't a problem with that. Don't bring it up if you don't like what you hear. Past behavior is indicative of future behavior. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't be complaining about Clintons voting record so hard would you?

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265303]I'd rather not have someone who thinks the most important issue facing America being drugs (rather than poverty, war, economic inequality, political corruption) voting at all. It makes sense why he'd easily vote for Trump.[/QUOTE] Drugs ARE a massive issue. The number of non violent drug offenders in prisons costing you taxpayer money is mind boggling. The problem this presents for the future work force of America is massive as the stigma for criminals, even non violent ones, is a massive stumbling block/hurdle for ex convicts. You can feel free to minimize, mitigate, demean, and otherwise dismiss the point of view. It doesn't mean you're the only one in the conversation that can be called "right".

[QUOTE=plunger435;50265307]You brought up me having opinions on people's erroneous arguments. I'm providing examples of why there isn't a problem with that. Don't bring it up if you don't like what you hear.[/QUOTE] I don't know what you mean. I just think it would be nice to actually talk about drug policy with Cody if he's trying to talk about it. But you can derail the discussion to fit your needs if you want

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265295]I'm just noting that Cody chaNing his reason for wanting to vote for someone doesn't invalidate his reasoning based on previous statements. I've just noticed that plunger tends to ignore current discussion by constantly bringing up previous statements. If Cody wants to vote for trump based on drug policy then that's what you should be refuting. Not bringing up things you've already refuted to invalidate his current opinion. [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] Like this. You tend to reach outside the current discussion to derail people's arguments and it's awkward to watch[/QUOTE] bringing up someone's past statements when it's relevant to the discussion isn't "derailing" the discussion

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265318]I don't know what you mean. I just think it would be nice to actually talk about drug policy with Cody if he's trying to talk about it. But you can derail the discussion to fit your needs if you want[/QUOTE] Because I've talked to Codey about why he likes Trump numerous times before, and he never actually provides any concrete reasons or quotes. He's welcome to now if it suits him, but I suspect in a week we'll be hearing about how Trumps policy on deep sea whaling is superior to Clintons.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265303]I'd rather not have someone who thinks the most important issue facing America being drugs (rather than poverty, war, economic inequality, healthcare, political corruption) voting at all. It makes sense why he'd easily vote for Trump.[/QUOTE] Hey I don't know if you know much about the war on drugs, but it's a huge factor in poverty, war, and corruption. Legalizing drugs will be the only way to decrease overdoses. Decriminalization only goes half way in deterring black market, impure drug from being sold to our drug users.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265325]bringing up someone's past statements when it's relevant to the discussion isn't "derailing" the discussion[/QUOTE] "I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs" "Yeah ok we proved you wrong earlier on war so your opinion in drugs is irrelevant"

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50265314]Drugs ARE a massive issue. The number of non violent drug offenders in prisons costing you taxpayer money is mind boggling. The problem this presents for the future work force of America is massive as the stigma for criminals, even non violent ones, is a massive stumbling block/hurdle for ex convicts. You can feel free to minimize, mitigate, demean, and otherwise dismiss the point of view. It doesn't mean you're the only one in the conversation that can be called "right".[/QUOTE] I do agree that the criminal justice system is fucked up when it comes to non violent offenders and drug crimes but I do not believe the answer is to legalize all drugs; nor do I think it's the most important issue facing America as I'm sure many people would agree.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50265314]Drugs ARE a massive issue. The number of non violent drug offenders in prisons costing you taxpayer money is mind boggling. The problem this presents for the future work force of America is massive as the stigma for criminals, even non violent ones, is a massive stumbling block/hurdle for ex convicts. You can feel free to minimize, mitigate, demean, and otherwise dismiss the point of view. It doesn't mean you're the only one in the conversation that can be called "right".[/QUOTE] I don't think ruining every single one of the US's diplomatic relationships, disbanding the EPA, dismantling the department of education, repealing the ACA, and cutting taxes for the wealthiest americans while engaging in economic protectionism and isolationism is worth ending the drug war, even if it was something trump could actually do

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265338]"I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs" "Yeah ok we proved you wrong earlier on war so your opinion in drugs is irrelevant"[/QUOTE] Actually I was pointing out how he said drugs was his biggest issue, when his biggest issue for the past two weeks was actually the war. It can't be a very big issue for him if he just came up with it, and hasn't even said what exactly about it appeals to him.

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265338]"I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs" "Yeah ok we proved you wrong earlier on war so your opinion in drugs is irrelevant"[/QUOTE] no it's "I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs and drug policy is the most important issue" "but you said war was the most important issue until we demonstrated he disagrees with you on war"

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265344]I don't think ruining every single one of the US's diplomatic relationships, disbanding the EPA, dismantling the department of education, repealing the ACA, and cutting taxes for the wealthiest americans while engaging in economic protectionism and isolationism is worth ending the drug war, even if it was something trump could actually do[/QUOTE] Congress itself would need to be fully coked up before they'd even hear someone mentioning decriminalizing all drugs.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265354]no it's "I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs and drug policy is the most important issue" "but you said war was the most important issue until we demonstrated he disagrees with you on war"[/QUOTE] I was voting for Clinton because supreme court appointees were my most important issue until it became campaign finance reform. What's your point? Doesn't make my argument less valid.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50265334]Hey I don't know if you know much about the war on drugs, but it's a huge factor in poverty, war, and corruption. Legalizing drugs will be the only way to decrease overdoses. Decriminalization only goes half way in deterring black market, impure drug from being sold to our drug users.[/QUOTE] So am I right to assume that you believe that impure drugs are the #1 cause of death in drug users and not the fact that they're inherently dangerous in the first place? What about opiods? Pure opiods are far more deadly than the usual street shit.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265340]I do agree that the criminal justice system is fucked up when it comes to non violent offenders and drug crimes but I do not believe the answer is to legalize all drugs; nor do I think it's the most important issue facing America as I'm sure many people would agree.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to argue what the right path is. I am going to argue it's a massive issue that will continue to be kicked down the road by people like yourself because you never want to deal with it. [url]http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.a7vQXo3Z.dpbs[/url] The statistics here are overwhelmingly showing how this is a bigger problem than people like yourself care to even realize. I don't know why you don't care about the lives of non violent drug offenders who've now lost the chance at a normal life and will fight stigma to get a job, feeding back into the criminal system, but you clearly don't if this is just another issue we can kick down the road. This needs to be dealt with in SOME way. I don't know what that is at this moment, but you cannot tell me this is a tennable situation. This cannot keep going on for another 8-16 years. This is a major issue which needs fixing NOW. Why does a 40 year old problem keep getting kicked down the road? Is it because the only people it bothers are non violent drug offenders(who gives a shit about them, am I right?) and drug users(who gives a shit about them, am I right?)? It seems to be the case, which means it's never going to be fixed.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265354]no it's "I'm voting for trump because I agree with his platform on drugs and drug policy is the most important issue" "but you said war was the most important issue until we demonstrated he disagrees with you on war"[/QUOTE] You didn't prove I disagree with him, you demonstrated that you don't understand my reasons for voting, and I think it's kinda pathetic.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265344]I don't think ruining every single one of the US's diplomatic relationships, disbanding the EPA, dismantling the department of education, repealing the ACA, and cutting taxes for the wealthiest americans while engaging in economic protectionism and isolationism is worth ending the drug war, even if it was something trump could actually do[/QUOTE] No and I'm not saying it is I am simply rebutting the point that it's not a serious issue. It's a massive issue.

[QUOTE=Aztec;50265359]I was voting for Clinton because supreme court appointees were my most important issue until it became campaign finance reform. What's your point? Doesn't make my argument less valid.[/QUOTE] if you support a candidate for a specific reason, and you say that reason is the most important issue for you, but immediately upon learning that reason isn't valid you find a new most important reason to support a candidate then you either don't actually know what it is you care about, or you're actively making up reasons to support that candidate

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265366]So am I right to assume that you believe that impure drugs are the #1 cause of death in drug users and not the fact that they're inherently dangerous in the first place? What about opiods? Pure opiods are far more deadly than the usual street shit.[/QUOTE] Pure heroin takes about 8 to 9 times the standard recreational doses to overdose on. Heroin cut with fentanyl takes about half the recreational dose to overdose on. Think man

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265366]So am I right to assume that you believe that impure drugs are the #1 cause of death in drug users and not the fact that they're inherently dangerous in the first place? What about opiods? Pure opiods are far more deadly than the usual street shit.[/QUOTE] Pure opiods danger is in the contrast from the normal shit the addicts are used to doing. They OD because they aren't used to a higher quality gear so they use more than they need to. Seen this first hand more times than I'd like to remember.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50265366]So am I right to assume that you believe that impure drugs are the #1 cause of death in drug users and not the fact that they're inherently dangerous in the first place? What about opiods? Pure opiods are far more deadly than the usual street shit.[/QUOTE] My town is facing a heroine epidemic. We are opening a heroine injection site so that addicts can gain access to stable doses rather than massively fluctuations in doses that have killed a lot of people in my area. I don't know if I agree with legalization hut I think to solve drug addiction issues we need to decriminalize being an addict [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50265375]if you support a candidate for a specific reason, and you say that reason is the most important issue for you, but immediately upon learning that reason isn't valid you find a new most important reason to support a candidate then you either don't actually know what it is you care about, or you're actively making up reasons to support that candidate[/QUOTE] Then debate his current position.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50265371]You didn't prove I disagree with him, you demonstrated that you don't understand my reasons for voting, and I think it's kinda pathetic.[/QUOTE] I'm not even talking about you, I don't know what it is plunger is talking about I'm just correcting a misinterpretation of what it is that plunger is saying honestly I don't care if you switch reasons for why trump is the best candidate daily, the ones I've heard have all been equally incoherent [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Aztec;50265378]My town is facing a heroine epidemic. We are opening a heroine injection site so that addicts can gain access to stable doses rather than massively fluctuations in doses that have killed a lot of people in my area. I don't know if I agree worth legalization hut I think to solve drug addiction issues we need to decriminalize being an addict [editline]6th May 2016[/editline] Then debate his current position.[/QUOTE] There is a difference between decriminalizing drug use and decriminalizing drugs as a whole I agree that we shouldn't be putting addicts in prison but that doesn't mean it should be legal to sell people heroin for recreational use.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50265371]You didn't prove I disagree with him, you demonstrated that you don't understand my reasons for voting, and I think it's kinda pathetic.[/QUOTE] Except Trump hasn't said anything about legalizing drugs this election cycle beyond saying pot can be legalized state by state. The same position Clinton has on it.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50265376]Pure heroin takes about 8 to 9 times the standard recreational doses to overdose on. Heroin cut with fentanyl takes about half the recreational dose to overdose on. Think man[/QUOTE] Alright you got me there. Where does Heroin come from (not talking about where Hospitals get their stuff)? What about Cocaine (not medical Cocaine either)?

[QUOTE=plunger435;50265398]Except Trump hasn't said anything about legalizing drugs this election cycle beyond saying pot can be legalized state by state. The same position Clinton has on it.[/QUOTE] I can't find any info on Trump for this, but Clinton has at least taken money from the Private Prison lobbyists so, she may do that but I highly, highly doubt we'll see any major policy changes on that front from either candidate which the US is in desperate need of.

Reminder not to engage Cody, since Trump could literally advocate nuking countries and commiting genocide against some minority group, and he would still argue that Clinton is worse.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50265407]I can't find any info on Trump for this, but Clinton has at least taken money from the Private Prison lobbyists so, she may do that but I highly, highly doubt we'll see any major policy changes on that front from either candidate which the US is in desperate need of.[/QUOTE] It's not like she can do anything. States already have the right to legalize it. Neither candidate proposes changing anything in relation to drugs.