After Las Vegas massacre, Democrats urge gun laws; Republicans silent
853 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52741998]Yeah no, I'll go buy as many as I want and have as much fun as I want because I can.[/QUOTE]
#Freedom huh?
I want to remind you Americans that you are basically the only first world country with this problem. I know you don't want to hear this right now but this is entirely the fault of your government and your culture. None of you want to prevent it because you're under the delusion that not being allowed to own powerful guns makes us less free than you.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;52742007]the problem is that I have yet to see anything to indicate that any of the proposed gun control legislation would actually impact gun crime in any appreciable ways
and it isn't like they're just going to repeal the restrictions if it turns out they don't actually do anything[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's fair, I just see a lot of people making the assumption that just because one or two incidents might still occur given whatever restrictions/regulations are proposed that it makes them all entirely invalid. Which I don't think would be entirely true since there's not really a way to eliminate gun violence altogether. But there might be some ways to prevent at least some of it from happening.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52742003]I think mental health is still an incredibly important aspect of all this. This particular incident was pretty much an anomaly. Most incidents in the past have had some touch of 'this guy was pretty mentally unstable' involved.
Paddock in particular was just... weird in that respect. And maybe he did have some issues but it'll be a bit before we know.[/QUOTE]
Oh of course, don't think I'm blowing off mental health as a factor. I just think something else, something seemingly fundamental is fucked. A lot of fundamental things, like even the culture. Healthcare, racism, economics etc etc. The intentional homicide rate of the USA is some 4x higher than most of Western Europe. I'm sure a lot of these homicides aren't as simple as mental health, and I'm also sure a lot of those that are firearm related are crime and gang related. So what's the problem? If I were to take a stab, it's the guns. But we're past that point. So a huge amount of stuff needs to be done in an attempt to curb the problems associated with them, and nowhere NEAR enough is being done. Sociopolitical factors are at play and a lot of things only tangentially related to guns need to be done. Like only a full shakeup could properly curb the problems you face.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52741977]That's an absurd amount of cars. Why do you need all those cars. Do you need to carry each of your 42 guns in every one of them?[/QUOTE]
Why do I [I]need[/I] a reason?
[QUOTE=Potus;52741916]I've always wondered if there should be a limit on the number of guns that a person can own. So far they have found 42 guns this guy had. Why do you need that many? And maybe have a system where the more dangerous guns are kept at a gun range, but I don't know. Guns are a right, but people can be fucking stupid with them. Maybe some sort of test/class owners have to take every year to prove they are competent enough to own their guns.[/QUOTE]
Firearms are seen as an investment by many people. They devalue pretty slowly under calm conditions, and jump in price drastically during troubling times.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52742008]#Freedom huh?
I want to remind you Americans that you are basically the only first world country with this problem. I know you don't want to hear this right now but this is entirely the fault of your government and your culture. None of you want to prevent it because you're under the delusion that not being allowed to own powerful guns makes us less free than you.[/QUOTE]
What problem? criminals? Why doesnt your country make it illegal to make bombs? oh wait, it is but that didnt stop the manchester bombing or any of the other bombings over the years.
The NRA has the Republican Party by the balls, and that's why gun laws aren't ever changing (except to remove restrictions) until a majority of Americans demand it and vote out of office anyone who resists. Until there is an overwhelming outcry, the NRA is why people will continue to die in mass shootings like this. Because few restrictions on guns is good for their business - which includes being responsible for the vast majority of firearms training services in the country, giving them a free opportunity to propagandize to nearly every new gun owner over the span of decades.
God bless America. [IMG]https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/emot-911.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;52741882]I'm all for stricter gun laws, but in this case. The guy was a model citizen was he not? he wasn't known to police and nobody suspected him, I don't think gun laws would have stopped him in this case, seems like maybe a major reform to the mental health network in America is probably needed (maybe in addition to gun laws)[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't have worked either. The guy had no mental health history or had any issues in his life that would lead to troubling his family.
I'm all for a better mental health system, but he never would've been reported to begin with - even if there was a chance that they found something.
I'm not quite sure what could've stopped this guy. It's bizarre
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;52741882]I'm all for stricter gun laws, but in this case. The guy was a model citizen was he not? he wasn't known to police and nobody suspected him, I don't think gun laws would have stopped him in this case, seems like maybe a major reform to the mental health network in America is probably needed (maybe in addition to gun laws)[/QUOTE]
funnily enough if you can't buy a gun you can't fire bullets into a crowd at will
but you're right there's no way it could possibly have been prevented
[QUOTE=Scot;52742067]funnily enough if you can't buy a gun you can't fire bullets into a crowd at will
but you're right there's no way it could possibly have been prevented[/QUOTE]
If you can't buy a gun and you want one there's plenty of ways to get one. Especially in America.
What most people need to realise is what happened is an exception, not the norm, when it comes to gun violence. Most gun violence is perpetrated with a handgun involving gang activity. This had been on a steady decline for over two decades.
Now like I said most gun crime is perpetrated by gangs and the poor, to which that stems from the much larger issues of racial and financial inequality.
The lone terrorist going on a rampage is a much easier target for the media to use, as apposed to the hundreds killed by gang violence in Chicago alone. The lone terrorist is also significantly more difficult to prevent, as seen with recent events.
If you honestly want to curb gun violence in general, help promote racial and economic equality. Address the issues of gang violence, as in give people a real reason not to get involved in the first place.
Gun violence is a symptom, not an illness. Guns don't make you kill people, but they make it easier to kill people. We need to solve poverty and healthcare, then you can have all the guns you want. If you don't focus on the cause of crime and go after guns, you'll just have people using other means to kill each other. It'll be less deadly but the underlying issue would still exist. Unfortunately, the solution is probably not going to happen with the current state of affairs in the US. We'll just end up banning more plastic gun attachments and wonder why when it happens again.
At the end of the day though in a gun saturated society, you're gonna have the occasional shooting that slips through the system. Strict gun control or not.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52742071]If you can't buy a gun and you want one there's plenty of ways to get one. Especially in America.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you shouldn't even try. Pointless.
[QUOTE=Scot;52742067]funnily enough if you can't buy a gun you can't fire bullets into a crowd at will
but you're right there's no way it could possibly have been prevented[/QUOTE]
removing guns is the coup de grace, not an opening gambit
[QUOTE=Cone;52742082]removing guns is the coup de grace, not an opening gambit[/QUOTE]
I mean they can try, but there's no way people are going to give up their guns, not possible.
Gun violence is unpreventable says country that has a clear solution to prevent it
[QUOTE=Mud;52742099]Gun violence is unpreventable says country that has a clear solution to prevent it[/QUOTE]
Please tell me what that is besides the removal of private property from law abiding citizens and the removal of a major aspect in the bill of rights. Oh please, great guru, tell me.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742104]Please tell me what that is besides the removal of private property from law abiding citizens and the removal of a major aspect in the bill of rights. Oh please, great guru, tell me.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a good solution to me idk
[QUOTE=Scot;52742067]funnily enough if you can't buy a gun you can't fire bullets into a crowd at will
but you're right there's no way it could possibly have been prevented[/QUOTE]
If I can't buy a gun legally and I want to cause a mass shooting, I'll just buy a gun(ammo included) illegally that will fund gunrunning, and allow said gunrunners to acquire more guns, that they can illegally sell to others, and continuously fund a cycle of death.
[QUOTE=Mud;52742106]Sounds like a good solution to me idk[/QUOTE]
So your good solution is to trample on people who broke no laws and then just allow criminals to keep their guns. Good idea.
I would love to be told that I'm a criminal now because I bought something that wasn't illegal before the law was signed, and that if I don't give up something I bought with my money and my rights and that is my property, I'm up there with gangbangers and murderers.
Buying guns illegally is actually very difficult. Open availability of weaponry lets violence occur more often. Its absurd to say that the frequency of these events won't slow down even if its harder to actually cause them
[editline]3rd October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742111]So your good solution is to trample on people who broke no laws and then just allow criminals to keep their guns. Good idea[/QUOTE]
Most shooters legally buy guns
[QUOTE=Mud;52742114]
Most shooters legally buy guns[/QUOTE]
Source
[QUOTE=Exploders;52742107]If I can't buy a gun legally and I want to cause a mass shooting, I'll just buy a gun(ammo included) illegally that will fund gunrunning, and allow said gunrunners to acquire more guns, that they can illegally sell to others, and continuously fund a cycle of death.[/QUOTE]
How many people know how to buy guns off the black market? I'm gonna guess not very many. How many know how to do it legally? Probably most of the population.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742119]Source[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States[/url]
Look into any of these past the 1940s and you will find the majority did not illegally procure their guns
[QUOTE=Mud;52742124][url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States[/url]
Look into any of these past the 1940s and you will find the majority did not illegally procure their guns[/QUOTE]
But you said most shooters, these are school shootings which are a tiny aspect of gun crime.
Source that please.
[QUOTE=Scot;52742122]How many people know how to buy guns off the black market? I'm gonna guess not very many. How many know how to do it legally? Probably most of the population.[/QUOTE]
If you outright made guns illegal, buying them off the black market would be easy. It would be as easy as knowing a guy. It would be as easy as buying drugs.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742126]But you said most shooters, these are school shootings which are a tiny aspect of gun crime.
Source that please.[/QUOTE]
What does them being school shootings change about my argument?
[QUOTE=Talon 733;52742058]What problem? criminals? Why doesnt your country make it illegal to make bombs? oh wait, it is but that didnt stop the manchester bombing or any of the other bombings over the years.[/QUOTE]
There's been a few bombings and attacks over the years but it's not nearly as regular or lethal as in your country. Tesco isnt selling bombs 2 for 1 in the home isle I'll tell you that much.
[QUOTE=Mud;52742137]What does them being school shootings change about my argument?[/QUOTE]
Because you said shooters. I should've referred to anyone handling a firearm firing at someone else, you are picking a very tiny sliver of all shootings in America, and it does not help your argument in the fact that you're refusing to source your original argument. Source it.
[QUOTE=Mud;52742137]What does them being school shootings change about my argument?[/QUOTE]
Most shootings are not school shootings. Therefore it doesn't support your claim. "Most shootings" needs to consider gang shootings, armed robbery, domestic violence, etc, etc.
[QUOTE=OvB;52741955]Cars are not a right.[/QUOTE]
guns shouldnt be a right
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