After Las Vegas massacre, Democrats urge gun laws; Republicans silent
853 replies, posted
Why is it that law abiding citizens must always be punished for what criminals do?
[QUOTE=Scot;52742122]How many people know how to buy guns off the black market? I'm gonna guess not very many. How many know how to do it legally? Probably most of the population.[/QUOTE]
Weed, in addition to a bunch of other narcotics, are illegal in the vast majority of states and on a federal level, yet everyone and their mother knows how to get their hands on the stuff from a dealer. The black market isn't some sort of underground mall where you have to be invited. Word of mouth and knowing a guy who knows a guy (who already dabbles in the illegal) is often enough to get anything illicit and highly desirable. I have a friend of a friend who knows a guy who can provide a shitty Hi-Point for a couple hundred bucks; it's not unheard of.
So you are saying theres no possible relationship between how easy it is to get firearms in america and gun violence
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52742148]There's been a few bombings and attacks over the years but it's not nearly as regular of lethal as in your country. Tesco is selling bombs 2 for 1 in the home isle I'll tell you that much.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain[/url]
Sure thing bud
If you are then that is an absolute absurd denial of reality
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52742157]guns shouldnt be a right[/QUOTE]
it's a fact that they are, and any solution to curbing gun crime is going to have to keep in mind that they are
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52742157]guns shouldnt be a right[/QUOTE]
I didn't write the bill of rights.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52742157]guns shouldnt be a right[/QUOTE]
Yes they should be
[QUOTE=OvB;52742152]Most shootings are not school shootings. Therefore it doesn't support your claim. "Most shootings" needs to consider gang shootings, armed robbery, domestic violence, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]
We do not even have school shootings in this country. Ever.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742096]I mean they can try, but there's no way people are going to give up their guns, not possible.[/QUOTE]
definitely not with things as they are. but if the problems surrounding and necessitating guns are curbed first through decades of consistently informed, nuanced, bipartisan governance, maybe. so yeah, probably not possible.
Americans are going to have to get used to accepting these sorts of shootings as a part of living in the US. As OvB said, they're a natural consequence of living in a "gun saturated society", and so long as guns are a fundamental part of American culture, that won't change.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52741991]Here's a magical idea: stop letting people buy lethal murder weapons designed to be the most efficient lethal murder weapons for like literally no reason other than just for fun.[/QUOTE]
I want you to tell me exactly what makes the AR-15 "the most lethal murder weapon designed to be the most efficient murder weapon" compared to other rifles.
I hear and counter that argument alot, and I genuinely never asked someone to elaborate on it. Everyone says it, nobody explains it.
Not mad, just curious.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;52742166]it's a fact that they are, and any solution to curbing gun crime is going to have to keep in mind that they are[/QUOTE]
this belief is the root of the problem
[QUOTE=Mud;52742162]So you are saying theres no possible relationship between how easy it is to get firearms in america and gun violence[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that at all. I'm asking you to cite your sources. You so far haven't.
[QUOTE=Toybasher;52742181]I want you to tell me exactly what makes the AR-15 "the most lethal murder weapon designed to be the most efficient murder weapon" compared to other rifles.
I hear and counter that argument alot, and I genuinely never asked someone to elaborate on it. Everyone says it, nobody explains it.
Not mad, just curious.[/QUOTE]
Where do they mention a specific weapon in his post? Their point, as far as I know, is that guns as a generic concept are the most efficient lethal vector ever engineered, and thats entirely true.
[QUOTE=Scot;52742186]this belief is the root of the problem[/QUOTE]
no, it's not
it is literally a right, legally
and it's functionally impossible to make it not a right given the way our government operates
More gun control is good, but it has to make sense and not be retarded for it to actually work out
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742187]I didn't say that at all. I'm asking you to cite your sources. You so far haven't.[/QUOTE]
I will forever be baffled that Americans need proof that guns are made to kill people.
[QUOTE=Talon 733;52742058]What problem? criminals? Why doesnt your country make it illegal to make bombs? oh wait, it is but that didnt stop the manchester bombing or any of the other bombings over the years.[/QUOTE]
Sick whataboutism my man, but that doesn't remotely relate to the post you're "destroying". The US is the only MEDC I can think of that regularly sees spree shootings. Yes, other countries have had them, we had one [highlight]7[/highlight] years ago (and since then a few terror attacks, which are a totally separate issue).
Comparatively, spree shootings are such a fucking problem in the US that the Wikipedia articles (yes, with an "s") are categorised based on what kind of shooting it was ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States[/url]). In the 7 years since our last shooting (inclusive) the US has had [I]at least[/I] 24 spree shootings, and at least 23 school shootings ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas)[/url], [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2000s[/url] there's no overlap as far as I can tell either, each article contains distinct entries).
So please, keep trying to insist that "it's not a problem", when your country is the only one that comes to mind when asked the question "where did this shooting occur?". America has a problem, a massive fucking problem, with gun violence as a whole. Don't downplay it, it's disgusting.
[QUOTE=Cone;52742174]definitely not with things as they are. but if the problems surrounding and necessitating guns are curbed first through decades of consistently informed, nuanced, bipartisan governance, maybe. so yeah, probably not possible.[/QUOTE]
The problems typically brought up that "necessitate" guns like poor mental health and extreme poverty had nothing to do with the Vegas incident. No amount of improvements in any of those factors will prevent shootings like this one from occuring so long as individuals are capable of as much destruction as they are.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;52742196]More gun control is good, but it has to make sense and not be retarded for it to actually work out[/QUOTE]
It really isnt though, here in NH we have some of the least gun laws in the country and yet as of 2015 we have the lowest murder rate in the country, the more GOOD people carrying guns the harder it is for criminals to carry out successful shootings
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52742193]Where do they mention a specific weapon in his post? Their point, as far as I know, is that guns as a generic concept are the most efficient lethal vector ever engineered, and thats entirely true.[/QUOTE]
Every time I hear the "WE SHOULDN'T HAVE WEAPONS OF WAR ON OUR STREETS" stuff, or "these kind of weapons" etc. They're always talking about the AR-15 and similar rifles.
I saw his post and automatically assumed that was the argument he was trying to make, because that's what I've heard countless times in the past on the media, from politicians, etc.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742187]I didn't say that at all. I'm asking you to cite your sources. You so far haven't.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/[/url]
Factual reporting is high on media fact check
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52742175]Americans are going to have to get used to accepting these sorts of shootings as a part of living in the US. As OvB said, they're a natural consequence of living in a "gun saturated society", and so long as guns are a fundamental part of American culture, that won't change.[/QUOTE]
Yup. This is the sad truth. The founding fathers would have had to be literal technoprophets to foresee how powerful guns are today than when the 2nd amendment was signed.
Best we can do is focus on mitigating the damage. Get people the help they need and remove any reason to commit the murders at all.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;52742194]no, it's not
it is literally a right, legally
and it's functionally impossible to make it not a right given the way our government operates[/QUOTE]
It's only impossible because everyone keeps repeating to themselves and each other it's impossible.
Those who made it a right had no chance of knowing what modern society would look like and what rights would be required.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52742214]I will forever be baffled that Americans need proof that guns are made to kill people.[/QUOTE]
I never said that either. Are you going to present an argument or no.
[editline]3rd October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mud;52742222][url]http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/[/url]
Factual reporting is high on media fact check[/QUOTE]
These are still mass shootings. They are not a major aspect of gun crime or even gun deaths in the United States. You said most shooters. Do you mean mass or all shooters?
[QUOTE=Toybasher;52742219]Every time I hear the "WE SHOULDN'T HAVE WEAPONS OF WAR ON OUR STREETS" stuff, or "these kind of weapons" etc. They're always talking about the AR-15 and similar rifles.
I saw his post and automatically assumed that was the argument he was trying to make, because that's what I've heard countless times in the past on the media, from politicians, etc.[/QUOTE]
Well that's why making blind assumptions is a mistake when trying to have a good-faith discussion.
Indeed, sensationalism is a problem when reporting on the American gun violence problem, but there doesn't need to be sensationalism involved when the reality is sensational.
Also, I don't understand this argument that I keep seeing:
"If the people at the concert were armed this wouldn't have happened"
Can someone explain how this would work? It's been all over places I've read. Is there any way people could have known they were being shot at from the 38th floor of the hotel?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52742233]I never said that either. Are you going to present an argument or no.
[editline]3rd October 2017[/editline]
These are still mass shootings. They are not a major aspect of gun crime or even gun deaths in the United States. You said most shooters. Do you mean mass or all shooters?[/QUOTE]
So are you gonna play semantics until i put every gun owner under a microscope
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52742215]Sick whataboutism my man, but that doesn't remotely relate to the post you're "destroying". The US is the only MEDC I can think of that regularly sees spree shootings. Yes, other countries have had them, we had one [highlight]7[/highlight] years ago (and since then a few terror attacks, which are a totally separate issue).
Comparatively, spree shootings are such a fucking problem in the US that the Wikipedia articles (yes, with an "s") are categorised based on what kind of shooting it was ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States[/url]). In the 7 years since our last shooting (inclusive) the US has had [I]at least[/I] 24 spree shootings, and at least 23 school shootings ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas)[/url], [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2000s[/url] there's no overlap as far as I can tell either, each article contains distinct entries).
So please, keep trying to insist that "it's not a problem", when your country is the only one that comes to mind when asked the question "where did this shooting occur?". America has a problem, a massive fucking problem, with gun violence as a whole. Don't downplay it, it's disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Haha i never insisted it wasnt a problem but okay keep making this stuff up to feel good about yourself, and how are terrorist attacks a differant issue? the result is still the same which is innocent dead people
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