• Queens imam and his assistant shot to death by gunman in attack local Muslims blame on Donald Trump
    52 replies, posted
[QUOTE=da space core;50884352] there was some guy here who broke down and basically posted how he was afraid of muslims here in SH a while back, its a thing. also understand that fear breeds irrational behavior, which includes violent acts like this.[/QUOTE] Got a link to the post? Sounds like an interesting read.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;50884762]Got a link to the post? Sounds like an interesting read.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cypher_09;49637383]It's not a card, fucking hell. I don't want to win this argument, having the conversation is enough. Just, in Brazil, how much of this do you really see first-hand? I'm pretty emotional about this because I've been to the protests, I've seen the fear in people's eyes, I have friends who were in Paris during the time of the attack, I have German and Swedish friends. There are terrorist threats on my town almost every week, my present town and my hometown. It's not nice is all I'm saying and I just want it to end.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cypher_09;49637393]Dude, fucking please. Don't discredit everything I've seen first-hand in-person. I have legit been afraid for my life and my friends lives on a multiple occasions due to this.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cypher_09;49637421]are you fucking joking me Legit too upset now to post in here after you've all turned on me, how [B]dare[/B] you? How fucking dare you nullify everything we are going through in such a mocking way? Have you ever fucking heard somebody shout Allahu Akhbar at the top of their lungs before, right near you?[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1503861&p=49637631"]and then it just deteriorated from there[/URL] [QUOTE]Honestly, I bet you're really happy with yourself now. I am in fucking tears that after the experiences I have been through so many people would fucking enter and scream racist at me and that I am in the dirt! These experiences will follow me through the rest of my life. I have not even mentioned the half of it. How dare you all? How dare you! It's ok for you to sit on your computer and debate this from the other side of the world but when I am afraid for my and my families/friends lives numerous times a week due to legitimate terrorist threats and more, I am sick of it! I thought my friends died in fucking Paris! I thought I would have been blown up so many god damn times! I have stood in the middle of crowds of Syrians and protesters wondering when the bomb will go off. This is fucked up. Really fucked up, how you've got a bandwagon of hate against me. I am going to say this, and I couldn't give a monkey's fuck whether you agree with it or not: I am not racist. I am not xenophobic. Shame on you all. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;50884125]Christ man how far do you have you head up Trump's ass[/QUOTE] This is a silly comment as I don't give a rat's arse who gets elected in America. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of blaming a man on the fact that Islamaphobia allegedly exists.
[QUOTE=phaedon;50883298]No, the point is that the words obviously have a common root and both describe discrimination, don't be coy. At the very least, the irrational fear of Muslims is tangible and easily observable. It's incredibly naive to pretend that a minority of people don't become afraid when they recognize that they are next to a Muslim, or aren't irrationally afraid that they'll be a target of a terrorist attack even though it's way more likely that they'll get run over by a car every time they get out of the house.[/QUOTE]I never said the fear of Islam, homosexuality, or just [I]differences[/I] aren't feared, they are, but I think more people are filled with disgust by the alien nature than honest fear. These two emotions are not the same, even if they might have the same root cause, and I think pretending they are just makes people less inclined to listen to reason. When you say, "you're afraid," it puts people on the defensive automatically because it's an implicit challenge. I don't know why it's hard for some people to understand why making somebody less inclined to listen to you is counterproductive to helping them see a different point of view. [QUOTE]You implied that shooting from the front would make him less cowardly, and said that only a pussy shoots someone in the back of the head.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=paul simon;50883294]Real life isn't a movie. When you kill someone, you kill someone. Why make it hard for yourself when you can do it in the easy way. Honor doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]Murderers tend to be cowards is what I'm saying, I couldn't give less of a fuck if you don't like that statement. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50883332]It's incredible that your largest complaint about the man isn't the fact that he murdered an innocent man out of pure hatred but the fact that he did it by the 'wrong' angle.[/QUOTE]It's incredible that you can't fucking read:[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50883128](really, there's no other way to describe the killer than "spineless coward")[/QUOTE]Resorting to an unprovoked act of violence like this is cowardly, full stop there is nothing brave about going up to an unarmed man and blasting him without ever seeing you. This isn't a war, there isn't some need to win, [I]there isn't even anything to win here[/I] besides the "satisfaction" of committing a cold murder. Cry all you want but that's how I see it. We live in a nation of laws and people can bitch and moan all they like about everyone else but if you jump to murder unprovoked and start assassinating people because they're different then [B]you are a spineless coward.[/B] [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=da space core;50884352]while calling someone an islamaphobe out of the blue may be overkill, I think we went through at least a googleplex of threads here explaining how islam itself isnt responsible for terrorism, its the conditions that people live in that cause it, which happen to be islamic countries.[/QUOTE]Yeah while I agree with the sentiment that conditions breed extremism I'm under no illusions that the religion itself is [I]very[/I] easy to use as justification for violence. Word for word Islam is not compatible with a Western society, you can have ~moderate Muslims~ and even absurdly liberal Muslims but the fact remains if you look at the text and in the context of what it's supposed to say and it doesn't even take the smallest amount of mental gymnastics to justify violence in it's name. Most other religions are a little more difficult to push, but they tend to have some way to absolve self-defense or the defense of others as okay, but Islam has codified religious law and attack on the faith itself is cause for violence. This is not at all compatible with a secular society where religions are not a protected topic and safe from debate. That aside, violently suppressing other faiths is not at all compatible with a secular society either. Either tell Muslims their religion is stupid and violent if you truly have to express your dislike or shut the fuck up, killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do to solve differences. [QUOTE]there was some guy here who broke down and basically posted how he was afraid of muslims here in SH a while back, its a thing. also understand that fear breeds irrational behavior, which includes violent acts like this.[/QUOTE]See above, I acknowledge fear but I think actual genuine fear takes a backseat toward seething hatred plenty of times. I don't think calling somebody "islamaphobic" is going to make them see the error of their ways if they just hate Islam or hate Muslims, [I]even if they are fearful[/I] using their fear as an insult is definitely not going to make them less afraid. It's stupid and counterproductive. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] da space core I find it easy to respond to you because you're not quick to judge and not so quick to argue. I've made that mistake plenty of times before, but it is nice to see somebody who can show restraint even if I can't sometimes. As for the rest of you, maybe you should back up and take another go at this.
You know what's worse than being a spineless coward? A murderer. No one gives a shit if he's a coward or not. No one gives a shit about your petty dissection of the term coward and whether or not it applies to this man.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50886196]You know what's worse than being a spineless coward? A murderer. No one gives a shit if he's a coward or not. No one gives a shit about your petty dissection of the term coward and whether or not it applies to this man.[/QUOTE]What's wrong with you today? [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50885904]Murderers tend to be cowards is what I'm saying, I couldn't give less of a fuck if you don't like that statement.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Cry all you want but that's how I see it. We live in a nation of laws and people can bitch and moan all they like about everyone else but if you jump to murder unprovoked and start assassinating people because they're different then [B]you are a spineless coward.[/B][/QUOTE][QUOTE]if you jump to murder unprovoked and start assassinating people because they're different then [B]you are a spineless coward.[/B][/QUOTE][QUOTE]That aside, violently suppressing other faiths is not at all compatible with a secular society either. Either tell Muslims their religion is stupid and violent if you truly have to express your dislike or shut the fuck up, killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do to solve differences.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]violently suppressing other faiths is not at all compatible with a secular society[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Either tell Muslims their religion is stupid and violent if you truly have to express your dislike or shut the fuck up, killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do to solve differences.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do to solve differences.[/QUOTE][QUOTE][B]killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do to solve differences.[/B][/QUOTE] I suppose calling somebody who murders an unarmed man a coward offends you and I should be screaming in incoherent rage instead but I'm not going to weep about your hurt feelings if you can't even take the time to read. Let me reiterate something once more since you're having trouble: [QUOTE]We live in a nation of laws[/QUOTE][QUOTE]killing people because you can't find a way to get along is what savage cowards do[/QUOTE] People who resort to this unprovoked violence are cowards. Period. The brave option is to accept our society is full of different kinds of people and [I]coexist peacefully.[/I] Braver still is accepting the violence of others as ignorance and responding with restraint, that takes some real courage to face actual violence and still persist in taking the higher road and setting a better example. I cannot break it down any further, and even if I could I've pandered to this inane bullshit for two posts which has exhausted all of my fucks to give. Read my post or continue to be offended by my choice of words, I don't care anymore because I've gone above and beyond to clarify things for you.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50885904]Word for word Islam is not compatible with a Western society[/QUOTE] word for word no religion is compatible with today's standards todays "liberalized" muslims as you put it, do not take it word for word. that is what I and many others are fighting towards. all the major religious books today have some violent texts in them, but people just ignore those parts. it happened with christianity and judism in the west, it has happened to islamic people in the west, there is no reason why it can never happen in the middle east. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50885904] but Islam has codified religious law and attack on the faith itself is cause for violence. This is not at all compatible with a secular society where religions are not a protected topic and safe from debate. [/QUOTE] no one sensible is arguing for including the more extreme aspects of sharia law, including many muslims in the west. It relies on many "an eye for an eye" type ideals that are outdated in this age, and there is the problem of introducing religion to the legal system (religion should be irrelevant in courts, the law should be blind). with the exception inconsequential things like marriage ceremonies and things like that, you will find that most sensible people do not support replacing our current legal system with this. The reason I do not like the "screw Islam" approach of things is because it leads to no solutions. it alienates people who done no wrong, which is the last thing we need. middle eastern people will change their interpretation of islam from a dry throat one if their cultures modernize, if their governments relax their censorship and grip, if more communication with the west occurs. because you touched upon it before, I believe its just fine to criticize islam (as you are), or any religion, because in this forum, most people "criticize" things fairly and with substantial arguments. unfortunately, what makes many people uneasy, is that many others believe that "criticizing islam" is the same thing as doing this. [IMG]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/B1KeQF7WNaw/hqdefault.jpg[/IMG] yeah, I get the first amendment protects you and all, but this is needlessly insulting, and adds fuel to the flames. this legitimizes the "censorship/refusal to debate" ultra left part of the argument to call all who criticize some aspects of islam as islamaphobes. I feel like this is what is happening right now on the topic of islam, and why its so hard to have an actual debate. The best you can do is debate with each person one on one, instead of projecting what you think the other person thinks and attacking that. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50885904]I don't think calling somebody "islamaphobic" is going to make them see the error of their ways if they just hate Islam or hate Muslims, [I]even if they are fearful[/I] using their fear as an insult is definitely not going to make them less afraid. [I]It's stupid and counterproductive[/I]. [/QUOTE] I agree with this, and from what I see, there are 2 main reasons this happens. 1. Person A keeps arguing against person B because person B is a brick wall who ignores all the arguments presented against them. Person B completely loses the argument but proceeds to stick to their beliefs like a small child. Person A eventually runs out of energy and patience. Person A eventually throws the "islamaphobe" bomb because there is nothing else to be said, if person B is against muslims for reasons shown to be completely illogical and nonsensical, then person B fits the name pretty well. As you say, nothing happens, but this is mainly because person B refuses to listen. this happened more times than I can count on SH 2. Person A has no clue how to debate, and assumes taking the moral high horse by just flinging insults against person B will accomplish something. this is prevalent in the real world, and I have seen many college students in particular do this. I see this all the time on sites like facebook as well. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50885904] da space core I find it easy to respond to you because you're not quick to judge and not so quick to argue. I've made that mistake plenty of times before, but it is nice to see somebody who can show restraint even if I can't sometimes. [/QUOTE] I just try my best to reach an objective truth. and I have to say, although I sometimes disagree with you, Im happy to see you put effort into your arguments. and your[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1515580&p=50172679&viewfull=1#post50172679"] rhetoric can be amusing[/URL]
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50883062]Apparently Trump is responsible for Islamophobia and not Terrorism.[/QUOTE] Well yeah, I would say he is more responsible for Islamophobia than he is for Terrorism. But he's still responsible for both.
[QUOTE=abcpea;50887032]Well yeah, I would say he is more responsible for Islamophobia than he is for Terrorism. But he's still responsible for both.[/QUOTE] In what way is Trump responsible for Terrorism, specifically?
he promotes it
[QUOTE=abcpea;50888062]he promotes it[/QUOTE] How exactly?
[QUOTE=da space core;50886885]word for word no religion is compatible with today's standards[/QUOTE]First off let me say no, word for word a lot of religions are pretty vague on a lot of stuff. What makes Islam so unbelievably easy to criticize is it goes out of it's way to provide rules and regulations about personal conduct. Almost all of the criticism toward Christianity is directed squarely at the Old Testament and I've said [I]plenty[/I] of times why that's a reference section, but it's a point of ambiguity so even if I'm wrong the fact that a major, major disagreement of interpretation bumps Christianity down on the list. Judaism? I'll be honest, the only thing I know about that religion is bits and pieces I picked up by being in a relationship with a Jew who had enormous tits, beyond those sweater cows I wasn't paying attention to much. Eastern religions don't really take as many things personally as they do in the Judaic trilogy, and beyond that you have a slew of smaller faiths either peeled off from one of the main ones or from some local beliefs. Personally I believe in Germanic "neopaganism" and I can tell you right now there is absolutely no conflicts within my religion about living in a modern society or any society. Actually it's entirely focused on things like personal conduct and "folk" as an entity which means the entirety of all Germanic peoples. There isn't at all a consensus here, even somebody who lived by the Havamal word for word would be largely indistinguishable from a really, really intense person with quirks that might make them a candidate for being on the autism spectrum. Not all religions are created equal, some are actually hostile to outsiders and some focus only on the individual. Anything beyond that is cultural, and speaking of, [QUOTE]todays "liberalized" muslims as you put it, do not take it word for word. that is what I and many others are fighting towards. all the major religious books today have some violent texts in them, but people just ignore those parts. it happened with christianity and judism in the west, it has happened to islamic people in the west, there is no reason why it can never happen in the middle east.[/QUOTE]I'm torn because the Middle East has historically never been a nice place and this stretches back [I]to the dawn of human civilization.[/I] Yeah, Europe's seen it's share of wars and [I]holy shit so has Asia[/I] but the Middle East seems to be either a wellspring of violence or the battleground of outside aggressors and this has only gotten much, much worse after the 500 A.D. so I have my doubts. A lot of doubts. I'm not really going to let them put me in a mode of thought where I think it's an impossibility but I can't ignore the gross amount of violence that region has seen and continues to see all thanks to Islam. What I think you and others are missing is that they haven't dropped the holy war concept while the rest of us have, and we're trying to apply that model to them and I'm just not seeing it fit. Now, do I think the modern Muslim in a secular society who minds his or her own business is somehow going to be the silver bullet to the beast of Islamic extremism? Yes. Religion is only as good as a culture willing to tolerate it, otherwise it's a cult, and just as Mohammad found out in Mecca eventually people will get sick of your shit. [QUOTE]no one sensible is arguing for including the more extreme aspects of sharia law, including many muslims in the west. It relies on many "an eye for an eye" type ideals that are outdated in this age, and there is the problem of introducing religion to the legal system (religion should be irrelevant in courts, the law should be blind). with the exception inconsequential things like marriage ceremonies and things like that, you will find that most sensible people do not support replacing our current legal system with this.[/QUOTE]I'm only replying to this so you don't think I skipped over it, but I have to disagree that "an eye for an eye" is an outdated view. It's prevalent enough for me to start listing off examples of atheists in my head who have fallen into that mode of thinking and really, I don't actually think a tit-for-tat response is completely unnecessary. Sometimes it's quite beneficial, it's all about context. [QUOTE]The reason I do not like the "screw Islam" approach of things is because it leads to no solutions. it alienates people who done no wrong, which is the last thing we need. middle eastern people will change their interpretation of islam from a dry throat one if their cultures modernize, if their governments relax their censorship and grip, if more communication with the west occurs.[/QUOTE]You're right and maybe my egalitarian "you're all assholes" approach doesn't necessarily produce the best results, but I'm willing to admit that and willing to work with other people. [QUOTE]because you touched upon it before, I believe its just fine to criticize islam (as you are), or any religion, because in this forum, most people "criticize" things fairly and with substantial arguments. unfortunately, what makes many people uneasy, is that many others believe that "criticizing islam" is the same thing as doing this.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]yeah, I get the first amendment protects you and all, but this is needlessly insulting, and adds fuel to the flames. this legitimizes the "censorship/refusal to debate" ultra left part of the argument to call all who criticize some aspects of islam as islamaphobes. I feel like this is what is happening right now on the topic of islam, and why its so hard to have an actual debate. The best you can do is debate with each person one on one, instead of projecting what you think the other person thinks and attacking that.[/QUOTE]Well first of all that's one of those times where I'd be inclined to say something but my Upper Midwestern upbringing would probably prevent me. That doesn't mean if provoked I'd jump at the chance to say something, my posts on here are a lot like how I talk in real life. Maybe I'm a unicorn, an actual, honest classical liberal who would see something like that and scowl but accept it's his right even if I don't like the message because you're right, it is counterproductive. That aside the things said on here are often refuted by those same leftie loon units who think civil rights are bullshit if they apply to people they don't like, it's happened in plenty of threads so I'm not really too concerned with however they rationalize their behavior. You're right though, that sort of forced shutdown happens on both sides of the political spectrum and it is next to impossible to discuss things as we're discussing them now. I think we agree fully that shirts like that and even statements like that [I]do not help[/I] any more than saying, "you're just being Islamophobic." You would think a free, secular society where everyone has equal say and equal rights is a nice prospect and easy common ground but as I said earlier I don't think it's fear we're dealing with so that hatred makes people avoid that carrot. No matter how much you try to sell it to them they just won't bite, leftists hate the fact that this guy can wear that shirt and righties hate that the leftists want to control them and "give us up to the Muslims." I guess the one-on-one thing still works, but it's really frustrating to see dumb motherfuckers immediately tune you out. [QUOTE]I agree with this, and from what I see, there are 2 main reasons this happens.[/QUOTE]I think both examples are readily available both on here and elsewhere, it's just that "Islamophobic" is an acceptable epithet here. Either that or trying to find some clever way of saying "you're dumb" without getting banned. I do think a lot of people here and elsewhere have their echo chambers to formulate stereotypes and then fill in the blanks as they go along, so it kind of burns my ass when I see left-leaning types make shit up and then get mad when I tell them no and try to set them straight. Most of the right-wingers I do this with are in person, and while I use the same words as I do on here my verbal tone is... well, it's hard for a Minnesotan to sound aggressive. Really that one-on-one is only effective if you can get under their skin and figure out why they believe these things, but I think most people actually don't have strong convictions and just put up a strong front because reevaluating yourself is hard. Like I said earlier, it takes a brave person to try and coexist with people who are different than you and likewise empathy takes bravery too. I understand why people don't like Islam and why they fear it, I get both points of view well enough that I can try and push them away from being excessive about it and maybe even help them learn a thing or two. [QUOTE]I just try my best to reach an objective truth. and I have to say, although I sometimes disagree with you, Im happy to see you put effort into your arguments. and your[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1515580&p=50172679&viewfull=1#post50172679"] rhetoric can be amusing[/URL][/QUOTE]Sometimes when I'm posting and also drinking things get out of hand. I just drink beer and post on Facepunch, it's how I relax when I'm not touching myself thinking about riding dragons or watching k-pop videos. You would think through correcting spelling mistakes I'd notice I fell off the wagon, but I suppose it's just a wonder I'm so well-written when in real life I'd be basically yelling incoherently because I have volume control issues and I'm a lightweight. I've had a few beers writing this post and I'm buzzed enough to say I can't drive. I'm also buzzed enough to say I love you and I love the things you do.
if you REALLY want to stretch the definition of terrorism, then you could say that this was *technically* a terrorist attack, due to the use of violence in political aims. Domestic terrorism, I think. what a shame tho, imagine killing someone over their belief.
[QUOTE=Maadz;50888253]if you REALLY want to stretch the definition of terrorism, then you could say that this was *technically* a terrorist attack, due to the use of violence in political aims. Domestic terrorism, I think. what a shame tho, imagine killing someone over their belief.[/QUOTE]You're right, this really would qualify as terrorism since assassinations (which is a better way to describe this) are a very important tool in the terrorist's arsenal.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;50883108]Trump's biggest shtick is that the Islam is terrible and responsible for all terrorism etc. You can't sit there and with a straight face say he hasn't been a major driving force for Islamophobia the past year.[/QUOTE] I can sit there with a straight face and say islamophobia was fucking everywhere before Trump and to say he's been a major driving force is laughably absurd.
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;50889796]I can sit there with a straight face and say islamophobia was fucking everywhere before Trump and to say he's been a major driving force is laughably absurd.[/QUOTE] i can't islamophobia was there after 9/11 but trump is spreading it and encouraging people who previously kept it in to go all out
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;50889796]I can sit there with a straight face and say islamophobia was fucking everywhere before Trump and to say he's been a major driving force is laughably absurd.[/QUOTE] It was perhaps everywhere but you can't deny that Trump has really brought it into the mainstream recently and is stirring up a huge amount of fear, uncertainty and doubt. He's attacked a Gold Star family because of their faith. If that's not going to help fuel Islamophobia than I don't know what will.
"Don't hurt peoples feelings or they'll kill you, it'll be your fault for making them do it!" - argues Facepunch. If Muslims are going to go crazy and kill people because Trump or someone else critiques/insults them, that says volumes about their culture rather than ours.
[QUOTE=Vasili;50889962]"Don't hurt peoples feelings or they'll kill you, it'll be your fault for making them do it!" - argues Facepunch. If Muslims are going to go crazy and kill people because Trump or someone else critiques/insults them, that says volumes about their culture rather than ours.[/QUOTE] Lol literally nobody has said this. If you can't make an actual argument for your bigotry don't start shitting all over threads making up other people's positions to discredit them. This is about two innocent Muslims being murdered. That says volumes about your character rather than theirs.
[QUOTE=Nebukadnezzer;50889796]I can sit there with a straight face and say islamophobia was fucking everywhere before Trump and to say he's been a major driving force is laughably absurd.[/QUOTE] Driving force != starting cause. It was there but it's been getting a lot worse since he started his bullshit. [QUOTE=Vasili;50889962]"Don't hurt peoples feelings or they'll kill you, it'll be your fault for making them do it!" - argues Facepunch. If Muslims are going to go crazy and kill people because Trump or someone else critiques/insults them, that says volumes about their culture rather than ours.[/QUOTE] Congrats on misreading. Trump constantly insults them and encourages separating them from non-muslims, and islamophobic incidents have been getting more common now.
[QUOTE=Vasili;50889962]"Don't hurt peoples feelings or they'll kill you, it'll be your fault for making them do it!" - argues Facepunch. If Muslims are going to go crazy and kill people because Trump or someone else critiques/insults them, that says volumes about their culture rather than ours.[/QUOTE] what a strange post to make in a thread where two muslims have been shot for seemingly no reason other than potentially a hate crime
Suspect photo from NYPD [t]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2750320.1471162585!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/article-liberty-0813.jpg[/t] Edit : Supposedly it's a 34 year old Mexican.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50890103]what a strange post to make in a thread where two muslims have been shot for seemingly no reason other than potentially a hate crime[/QUOTE] The thread title was changed and the thread is more about whether Trump is to blame for Islamaphobia. It could just as easily have been Muslims that killed them anyway... [editline]16th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50892027]Suspect photo from NYPD [t]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2750320.1471162585!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/article-liberty-0813.jpg[/t] Edit : Supposedly it's a 34 year old Mexican.[/QUOTE] Jihadi Jose?
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