But wait this doesnt make sense, Obama is a muslim what a traitor
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;37828710] it's just immigrants who want to turn the countries they go to into the countries they left. they don't even consider themselves australian[/QUOTE]
I love culture, and meeting people from other places. My family is a giant blender of races. I speak 4 languages, and broken bits of others. I used to help run culture events for the local college.
I love cultures, but it pisses me off to no end when people move to another country, then try to change that country to be more like their own country. If the system you came from worked so well, why did you leave it?
There's a huge difference between being cultured and honoring tradition, vs just being a bully and a scumbag.
I'm looking at you chinese and muslims......... >_____>
[QUOTE=lavacano;37826069]wait a god damn minute
Minorities who [i]live in Australia[/i] and are in fact [i]Australian[/i] think that a holiday named [i]Australia Day[/i] doesn't include them?
What the fuck.[/QUOTE]
These whiny par of immigrants always consider themselves to still be part of their own nation/country.
The thing is, they move to a new country and want it to become just like the one they left minus all the bullshit. When in reality it's not actually happening, they get pissed and get "offended" at every opportunity, be it a film, or a book, or a national holiday, or flags, whatever.
They're so in need for someone to tell them, either they respect their new citizenship or they can go back to any desert shithole they crawled out from, and return to beating their women, dressing them up with glorified garbage bags and generally do whatever they like to do.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;37820467]And are those immigrants not australians once they get a citizenship? Australia day is a much stronger symbol to everyone than citizen day.
[/QUOTE]
Ehm, you misquoted maybe? That's what I said.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37825309]This thread went from "Free Speech Good" to "Nationalism Good". How?[/QUOTE]
No this thread went from free speech good to immigrants with citizenship should become part of their new recipient nation. Not remain part of their old one.
Maybe it's a difference between an Euro and US view I guess. Since it's very rare for people in europe to refer themselves as swedish germans or something. As opposed to the US where it's common to think of yourself as irish american, italian american and who knows what else, even though it might have been your great grand parents who last saw anything from Italy.
This thread is just oozing with people trying to justify their racism or bigotry.
how does it feel? empowering yourself by by "standing up" to a diffuse group of "immigrants" who don't have any political power?
[editline]28th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;37829812]Maybe it's a difference between an Euro and US view I guess. Since it's very rare for people in europe to refer themselves as swedish germans or something.[/QUOTE]
uh
hey in England we have like these four separate groups. Irish, Scottish, English, and Welsh.
that's not really different from being mexican american or italian american. America is just such a huge place that many different groups and diverging cultures build on their own.
for instance mexican american culture is a unique culture in its own, ingrained into Californian and Texan culture.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;37829812]No this thread went from free speech good to immigrants with citizenship should become part of their new recipient nation. Not remain part of their old one.
Maybe it's a difference between an Euro and US view I guess. Since it's very rare for people in europe to refer themselves as swedish germans or something. As opposed to the US where it's common to think of yourself as irish american, italian american and who knows what else, even though it might have been your great grand parents who last saw anything from Italy.[/QUOTE]
Part of it is because the US [B]IS[/B] a young country that consists of people from lots of different nation from the get-go.
So calling people from the US a bunch of immigrants children wouldn't be far off (unless they're pure-blood Indians)
[QUOTE=Van-man;37829931]Part of it is because the US [B]IS[/B] a young country that consists of people from lots of different nation from the get-go.
So calling people from the US a bunch of immigrants children wouldn't be far off (unless they're pure-blood Indians)[/QUOTE]
Well, even 1st generation immigrants behave a lot better in US, somehow they're more willing to integrate then they end up being in Europe. May have something to do with willingness of the society to change itself, for example, if you don't know English in US you're fucked, but if you don't know German in Germany you're more or less okay.
[QUOTE=gudman;37829958]Well, even 1st generation immigrants behave a lot better in US, somehow they're more willing to integrate then they end up being in Europe. May have something to do with willingness of the society to change itself, for example, if you don't know English in US you're fucked, but if you don't know German in Germany you're more or less okay.[/QUOTE]
uh have you ever visited the US???
[QUOTE=thisispain;37829964]uh have you ever visited the US???[/QUOTE]
The bible belt.
Every immigrant who isn't rich & Christian is unwanted there for some reason.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37829964]uh have you ever visited the US???[/QUOTE]
Yah, couple of times, and I know a lot of Russian immigrants there. Well, I exaggerated a bit with "fucked", but you'll find yourself in a lot worse conditions then, say, in Germany or France.
[QUOTE=gudman;37829997]Yah, couple of times, and I know a lot of Russian immigrants there. Well, I exaggerated a bit with "fucked", but you'll find yourself in a lot worse conditions then, say, in Germany or France.[/QUOTE]
and this is based on what???
the reason why an immigrant in the US might be "fucked" has nothing to do with language or culture, to say so is incredibly strange considering before you learn the language and before you get part of the culture you first have to have economic participation.
an immigrant in the US is going to be seriously deprived of a lot of basic things that US people take for granted. Germany and France has much better welfare states, it's a compliment and a great achievement for immigrants to not be "fucked" in these countries.
yet you're trying to say immigrants being "fucked" is a good thing??? I'm just really confused at what or why you're saying any of this.
as someone who has lived in both European countries and the US i can assure you language and culture-wise the US makes a significantly greater and better push towards plurality. the US government allows you to work with them in practically any language you choose. the same cannot be said of many other European states.
for instance i know in France and The Netherlands you're at an incredible disadvantage if you can't speak the language. i had to learn Dutch just to be able to function.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37818909]Yes, such outrageous political correctness that it was requested the name of a holiday be changed! As if somehow it being "Citizen's Day" rather than "Australia Day" would honestly cheapen the liveliness or spirit of an arbitrary date marked on a calendar for the patriotism of a former immigrant nation and penal colony.[/QUOTE]
You may see it that simple but then again the change of the name kind of implies that "Australia Day" doesn't include everyone who is connected to Australia in some way and that's kinda stupid and the wrong thing to do.
It's the same logic as in "oh what, people don't like our brand? Better rename it" where you just rename it instead of tackling the real issue.
[editline]28th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=gudman;37829958]Well, even 1st generation immigrants behave a lot better in US, somehow they're more willing to integrate then they end up being in Europe. May have something to do with willingness of the society to change itself, for example, if you don't know English in US you're fucked, but if you don't know German in Germany you're more or less okay.[/QUOTE]
That's bullshit I am German and we have massive problems with closed of social bubbles of immigrants there are schools in Berlin where 90% of the pupils speak no German and that isn't a problem per se but statistics show that these kids are not gonna do well later in life.
Not speaking German may not be a problem theoretically and when viewed from inside the foreign communities but in its greater consequences it is.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37830028]and this is based on what???
the reason why an immigrant in the US might be "fucked" has nothing to do with language or culture, to say so is incredibly strange considering before you learn the language and before you get part of the culture you first have to have economic participation.
an immigrant in the US is going to be seriously deprived of a lot of basic things that US people take for granted. Germany and France has much better welfare states, it's a compliment and a great achievement for immigrants to not be "fucked" in these countries.
yet you're trying to say immigrants being "fucked" is a good thing??? I'm just really confused at what or why you're saying any of this.
as someone who has lived in both European countries and the US i can assure you language and culture-wise the US makes a significantly greater and better push towards plurality. the US government allows you to work with them in practically any language you choose. the same cannot be said of many other European states.
for instance i know in France and The Netherlands you're at an incredible disadvantage if you can't speak the language. i had to learn Dutch just to be able to function.[/QUOTE]
You're going to deep into this trying to find racism in what I'm saying. In US, from what I've heard from Russian immigrants, if you don't know the language - no one is going to try too hard to communicate with you on your social rights and needs, while in say Germany - social services will dance around you all day long if it's needed to, erm, "force" you to, as you put it, function. So it becomes a principle for a lot of immigrants to say "fuck you Germans and your language".
I don't know how everything is in Netherlands, and I'm not saying anything about it. But France is a lot closer to Germany in this instance. Now it tends to move away from it though, and that's a good thing.
Yeah, I'm not only trying - I'm actually saying that if immigrant is unwilling to adapt to society, respect it's culture and language then he indeed should be fucked. Society is not supposed to dance around every poor fucker who escaped his wreck of a country just to ignore laws and traditions of the state he now lives in.
[editline]28th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;37830032]
That's bullshit I am German and we have massive problems with closed of social bubbles of immigrants there are schools in Berlin where 90% of the pupils speak no German and that isn't a problem per se but statistics show that these kids are not gonna do well later in life.
Not speaking German may not be a problem theoretically and when viewed from inside the foreign communities but in its greater consequences it is.[/QUOTE]
Where did I said that these immigrants from closed bubbles (diaspora) are going to do well? They're just no going to be dirt poor begging for bread. Welfare system will grant them some level of living. And that would be a lot higher then that in US, that's just what I said.
[QUOTE=WhatAmI;37817323]The demands Muslims make are fucking stupid, and the lengths people want us to cater for minorities is stupid
apparently here in Aus, our national holiday Australia Day was going to be named "Citizen's day" to appease minorities
THAT'S UN FUCKEN AUSTRALIAN AND I WON'T FUCKEN STAND FOR IT[/QUOTE]
The "apparently" here is pretty loaded, since it never actually happened. It's like claiming that Obama is "apparently" going to send people to FEMA camps, etc.
Not blaming you, since this was apparently spread around a fair bit to get people upset, but it's not true.
[QUOTE=gudman;37830087]You're going to deep into this trying to find racism in what I'm saying. In US, from what I've heard from Russian immigrants, if you don't know the language - no one is going to try too hard to communicate with you on your social rights and needs, while in say Germany - social services will dance around you all day long if it's needed to, erm, "force" you to, as you put it, function. So it becomes a principle for a lot of immigrants to say "fuck you Germans and your language".
I don't know how everything is in Netherlands, and I'm not saying anything about it. But France is a lot closer to Germany in this instance. Now it tends to move away from it though, and that's a good thing.
Yeah, I'm not only trying - I'm actually saying that if immigrant is unwilling to adapt to society, respect it's culture and language then he indeed should be fucked. Society is not supposed to dance around every poor fucker who escaped his wreck of a country just to ignore laws and traditions of the state he now lives in.
[editline]28th September 2012[/editline]
Where did I said that these immigrants from closed bubbles (diaspora) are going to do well? They're just no going to be dirt poor begging for bread. Welfare system will grant them some level of living. And that would be a lot higher then that in US, that's just what I said.[/QUOTE]
YOu said they integrate better in Europe and I told you part of the general state of integration in Germany not more not less.
You said they will do better, I said they don't in the long run. It was an argument against yours now why you are saying that I somehow layed that anti-argument in your mouth I don't understand.
[QUOTE=Killuah;37831088]YOu said they integrate better in Europe and I told you part of the general state of integration in Germany not more not less.
You said they will do better, I said they don't in the long run. It was an argument against yours now why you are saying that I somehow layed that anti-argument in your mouth I don't understand.[/QUOTE]
Wh- What? I'm not saying anything about you laying in my mouth or something like that. And I haven't considered "in the long run" - they will do better overall. Their kids yes, they will have problems as they will need to socialise in the end.
[QUOTE=Killuah;37831088]YOu said they integrate better in Europe and I told you part of the general state of integration in Germany not more not less.
You said they will do better, I said they don't in the long run. It was an argument against yours now why you are saying that I somehow layed that anti-argument in your mouth I don't understand.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, the integration in germany is a lot similar to a lot of other Euro countries. Most immigrants integrate without large issues and in 2-3 generations are often strongly part of their recipient country culture.
Even first generation immigrants tend to mesh fine.
The issue is, that virtually every EU nation has a homonegous group of immigrants which tend to form enclaves in a sense and resist integration. Both those are rather the exception than the norm, but a very visible exception.
[QUOTE=A_flyboy;37829166]I love culture, and meeting people from other places. My family is a giant blender of races. I speak 4 languages, and broken bits of others. I used to help run culture events for the local college.
I love cultures, but it pisses me off to no end when people move to another country, then try to change that country to be more like their own country. If the system you came from worked so well, why did you leave it?
There's a huge difference between being cultured and honoring tradition, vs just being a bully and a scumbag.
I'm looking at you chinese and muslims......... >_____>[/QUOTE]
2nd gen chinese immigrant here, my parents actually didn't teach me chinese because they wanted me to assimilate
don't generalize.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;37832135]2nd gen chinese immigrant here, my parents actually didn't teach me chinese because they wanted me to assimilate
don't generalize.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't, he speaks about bullies and scumbags who are more common among Chinese and Muslim immigrants. I might add south Slavs to that list. Still don't see him generalizing.
[QUOTE=gudman;37830087]You're going to deep into this trying to find racism in what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
when did i do this?
[QUOTE=gudman;37830087]In US, from what I've heard from Russian immigrants, if you don't know the language - no one is going to try too hard to communicate with you on your social rights and needs, [/QUOTE]
yeah obviously you didn't read what i wrote and just started prattling on. it's because immigrants get very little social rights and attention. as an immigrant i can tell you just filling for an application is a huge headache, not to mention people will distrust you.
[QUOTE=gudman;37830087]Yeah, I'm not only trying - I'm actually saying that if immigrant is unwilling to adapt to society, respect it's culture and language then he indeed should be fucked. Society is not supposed to dance around every poor fucker who escaped his wreck of a country just to ignore laws and traditions of the state he now lives in.[/QUOTE]
and why is that? when you invite an immigrant to your county, you have to give them rights equal to that which normal citizens have.
unless you want to say that all people should be forced to respect culture and language, in which case i would cringe really hard and hope to god you have no political power.
if a person doesn't want to learn a language or culture, who cares? they're the ones that will suffer, not you.
[editline]28th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=gudman;37832183]He doesn't, he speaks about bullies and scumbags who are more common among Chinese and Muslim immigrants. I might add south Slavs to that list. Still don't see him generalizing.[/QUOTE]
you just made a generalization. you said bullies and scumbags are more common among a certain group.
that's a generalization lmao
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