[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47309293]If you're making racist jokes, then is it really a stretch to call you a racist?[/QUOTE]
But if I am making jokes about white people, is it NOT racism only because white are dominant or because I'm white myself?
Why is it always nice to joke about stuff associated with you but never vice versa? Why is it suddenly OK for my friend who fought through cancer to joke about cancer and not for me? Why is it suddenly OK for a black person to do "dumb nigger" jokes and not for me?
If you insist that I am racist by remarking how stopping tracks of a car in front of a black person are less than in front of a dog, then it just shows hypocritical way of thinking "hurr that guy hates black people, he jokes about them". It's fucking stupid if you think about it.
Tell a joke about Asian people - you're racist, even when you have some Asian friends who you are good with; tell a joke about women - you're sexist, even when you have a girlfriend who herself laughs hysterically at it.
If you are offended by this kind of stuff, grow a pair of balls/tits and move on.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47311460]But if I am making jokes about white people, is it NOT racism only because white are dominant or because I'm white myself?
Why is it always nice to joke about stuff associated with you but never vice versa? Why is it suddenly OK for my friend who fought through cancer to joke about cancer and not for me? Why is it suddenly OK for a black person to do "dumb nigger" jokes and not for me?
If you insist that I am racist by remarking how stopping tracks of a car in front of a black person are less than in front of a dog, then it just shows hypocritical way of thinking "hurr that guy hates black people, he jokes about them". It's fucking stupid if you think about it.
Tell a joke about Asian people - you're racist, even when you have some Asian friends who you are good with; tell a joke about women - you're sexist, even when you have a girlfriend who herself laughs hysterically at it.
If you are offended by this kind of stuff, grow a pair of balls/tits and move on.[/QUOTE]
people who rely on making fun of minorities for humor are straight up just shit at being funny.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47311460]
Why is it always nice to joke about stuff associated with you but never vice versa? Why is it suddenly OK for my friend who fought through cancer to joke about cancer and not for me? Why is it suddenly OK for a black person to do "dumb nigger" jokes and not for me? [/QUOTE]
Because those people have an understanding of the subject and the potential effect of that kind of joke that you can't begin to imagine.
It's like how after I do something stupid I can say "wow I'm a dumbass" but if I say "wow you're a dumbass" when I see someone else do something stupid, I'm an asshole. I don't really understand how people can't realize that potentially insulting yourself is never as bad as potentially insulting others.
For those that are complaining about the title of the article, though apathy doesn't necessarily mean you're a bonafide Klansmen, I pretty much think the title has less to do with the content and more to do with trying to get people to read it. As a millennial myself I really wouldn't click a title that simply said "Millennials are apathetic/ignorant about race issues" and I'm sure a boomer or a Gen Xer wouldn't either, because its a stereotype that Millennials don't give a fuck, are ignorant as shit, and self absorbed. However we're known as "more tolerant" than our parents and their parents, if you title and article saying Millennials are racist, well you're probably going to get more clicks because that is more interesting and race has risen to become a hot button issue again.
So tl;dr the title is following the basics of clickbaiting, the message is meaningful but the truth is a more straight forward title would've resulted in far less people clicking on it and reading it. I'd wager we wouldn't even be talking about it right now in this thread if it where not for the sensationalist headline.
What's important about making offensive jokes is to make sure only people who find them funny hear them, and that people who don't like them don't hear them.
Adhering to such a rule has proven valuable countless times in life.
So we should just makes jokes involving nondescript people, and to show our appreciation of said joke we shall chuckle heartily three times, any more and the fun police will be round shortly to shatter your kneecaps and tase you, because you're clearly an awful person.
Kinda tired of people getting offended on everyone else's behalf.
Yeah I can believe it. Just look at the comments in this video.
[video=youtube;xdyin6uipy4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyin6uipy4&list=UUPDXXXJj9nax0fr0Wfc048g&index=1[/video]
[QUOTE=Levithan;47311580]people who rely on making fun of minorities for humor are straight up just shit at being funny.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that I make exclusively jokes of minorities. If anything, I rely on making jokes about myself the most. Its that the problem sometimes occurs that I apparently offended someone coz of their skin - again, it's stupid, SJW tier.
Duh. No other generation has magically banished racism just by virtue of being young. This one is no different.
It could actually go backwards. Kids today in many areas are growing up in schools just as segregated as the they were before federally mandated integration.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47312558]Duh. No other generation has magically banished racism just by virtue of being young. This one is no different.
It could actually go backwards. Kids today in many areas are growing up in schools just as segregated as the they were before federally mandated integration.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.lehman.cuny.edu/deannss/bronxdatactr/discover/trypng3.png[/IMG]
Here is a map of New York city's ethnic concentrations. Even in my own town which is no where near as large as NYC that I live in has areas that are predominantly one race or the other along with many other of the surrounding towns around my own.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47309293]If you're making racist jokes, then is it really a stretch to call you a racist?[/QUOTE]
Yes, it really is. If I make a joke involving a black stereotype, that, in no way, means I look at black people and say "yeah, they're inferior."
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;47308744]Honestly, the most telling thing about your response to this article is that, instead of accepting it for the insightful look into the behaviors that we as a society need to change to improve things that it is, you take offense, pretend it's a misrepresentation of the facts, and blame some kind of [I]anti-white[/I] agenda. That is deeply ironic, considering it's the exact behavior that this research is trying to call attention to.[/QUOTE]
The only thing I am doing is pointing out that the title is incorrect considering the content. If the title was "Millenials prop up systemic racism more than they think" then I'd have taken zero issue because the content of the article would support this title. Maybe I'm just one of these stupid people who takes the title of something as the topic and it being pertinent to the content instead of just assuming it's bait to get you to read the article, but none of the things contained in the article support the proposition of the title of the article, because the things in the article don't make millennials more racist than they think they are. Instead it's just that they don't help get rid of systemic racism and inequality more than they think they do (because they pretend it doesn't exist or just don't know it's there), which is a significant difference to being a racist.
Sure though, call me offended and not concerned with the facts despite the fact that other people have walked away from the article with the same impression I had, instead of just acknowledging that if you write an inflammatory title but then don't provide an argument to back it up because it's actually a clickbait title that people are going to consider that what follows the title as an argument in support of the proposition of the title.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;47312898]Yes, it really is. If I make a joke involving a black stereotype, that, in no way, means I look at black people and say "yeah, they're inferior."[/QUOTE]
But you're alluding to things that (might) make them feel inferior.
Seriously, just know your venue. If you're with a small group of friends and you know they're all okay with it, go ahead and say whatever. But the internet is a public place, it's probably best you avoid telling jokes that you wouldn't feel comfortable telling out loud in a mall.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47313559]But you're alluding to things that (might) make them feel inferior.
Seriously, just know your venue. If you're with a small group of friends and you know they're all okay with it, go ahead and say whatever. But the internet is a public place, it's probably best you avoid telling jokes that you wouldn't feel comfortable telling out loud in a mall.[/QUOTE]
Knowing your venue is definitely important, though I'm personally a lot more lenient with the internet. Mainly BigDumbAmerican's post came off as "if you make racists jokes at all, you're a bit racist."
I think the people who identify as "social justice warriors" are some of the most racist, sexist, classist and hateful people in the world. They're so far left that they wrap around the spectrum and end up on the right.
[QUOTE=Durandal;47311763]
So tl;dr the title is following the basics of clickbaiting, the message is meaningful but the truth is a more straight forward title would've resulted in far less people clicking on it and reading it. I'd wager we wouldn't even be talking about it right now in this thread if it where not for the sensationalist headline.[/QUOTE]
Probably right, yeah.
Made for a really insightfull thread though.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Velocet;47313731]I think the people who identify as "social justice warriors" are some of the most racist, sexist, classist and hateful people in the world. They're so far left that they wrap around the spectrum and end up on the right.[/QUOTE]
I get your point, like they are so focussed on fixing the problem, they seem to be the only ones who
acknowledge the problem; which in turn makes them look racist.
But according to the article (and, quite rightly so, I suppose) they are the ONLY ones who TRY to fix the problem.
[QUOTE=MyAlt91;47314337]But according to the article (and, quite rightly so, I suppose) they are the ONLY ones who try to fix the problem.[/QUOTE]
No.
They don't give a shit about the problem. They aren't trying to fix the problem. They only care about being seen trying to fix the problem.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;47314359]No.
They don't give a shit about the problem. They aren't trying to fix the problem. They only care about being seen trying to fix the problem.[/QUOTE]
That's not very optimistic.
Sure there are some that are just attention seeking, but to say all of those people do this just for
"beeing seen while they fix the problem" sounds a bit far fetched.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
Meh, maybe i'm beeing optimistic.
[QUOTE=mcgrath618;47308206]Is the millennial generation 2001-2009? Or is it 2000-2010?[/QUOTE]
1985-2000. any younger and they're just called kids
[QUOTE=MyAlt91;47314377]That's not very optimistic.
Sure there are some that are just attention seeking, but to say all of those people do this just for
"beeing seen while they fix the problem" sounds a bit far fetched.[/QUOTE]
You're right, they aren't all doing it just to be seen trying to fix the problem.
There's also the type that does it so they can feel like a self-righteous asshole.
[QUOTE=Velocet;47313731]I think the people who identify as "social justice warriors" are some of the most racist, sexist, classist and hateful people in the world. They're so far left that they wrap around the spectrum and end up on the right.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, nobody identifies as a "Social Justice Warrior". It's a derogatory term for people who use identity politics to harass and bully people on the internet instead of actually fighting oppression of others (what they do is more obfuscating the issues than anything else). Actual Social Justice Community members don't behave that way, Social Justice is supposed to be a semi peaceful endeavor (hence the oxymoron of Social Justice [i]Warrior[/i]).
I have my own issues with the hugbox style communities actual Social Justice creates, particularly with the cycle of self-hate and self-pitying it creates for people who are vulnerable enough to get sucked into it (not good for people with PTSD who are already afraid of loud noises to think that even the slightest touch will "trigger" them despite most medical evidence suggesting otherwise), but social justice itself is arch typically supposed to be peaceful, even if it is fundamentally flawed imao.
I don't know how much of the original intent of Social Justice is left in the current communities though, I think it may have been for the most part turned into a Scientology style cult. However, just like how there are "heretics" running their own independent versions of Scientology without the abusive elements, there are people like Reimu from around here who follow Social Justice but actually practice what they preach and who are actually trying to help people.
To see what I'm talking about in terms of the abusive elements of extreme SJW wings of Social Justice, here's a three part article talking about a person called Randi Harper who became a SJW after leaving Hell Dump on SA and getting kicked out of the GNAA (Gay Niggers Assocation of America, a hacking group) for being too abusive to other members:
[url]www.ship2block20.com/hidden-face-hypocrisy-randi-harper/[/url]
[url]http://s2b20blog.mukyou.com/the-hidden-face-of-hypocrisy-randi-harper-part-2/[/url]
[url]http://s2b20blog.mukyou.com/the-hidden-face-of-hypocrisy-randi-harper-part-3/[/url]
People who are described as Social Justice Warriors don't actually believe in Social Justice at all and they don't discriminate in who they target either. If your male then you're a misogynist, if your female then your also a misogynist but you've also internalized misogyny against yourself which is even worse because not only are you evil but your opinion is marked as irelevant because you are less than human, even if you're a minority person (particularly black) then you're even worse than that; you're an uncle tom, a "house nigger". These people do not care about improving people's lives at all, they just want to use Social Justice rhetoric to control people and silence criticism without understanding what it actually means. These are not nice people, that's why I call them Social Justice Warriors.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;47314400]You're right, they aren't all doing it just to be seen trying to fix the problem.
There's also the type that does it so they can feel like a self-righteous asshole.[/QUOTE]
I went over this problem in my head once:
do you help people, to help people;
or do you help people, to feel good about helping people?
In the end, either one is helping people. So maybe people do it to feel-good,
but they are still helping others.
So is that really a bad thing?
Of course if you call it beeing a self-righteous asshole, I wouldn't wanna help people either :').
I think this is a load of crap, personally.
I would definitely put my vote in the box for "Generation most likely to make you think they're changing the way things work..." but its definitely not because they are 'more racist' than any other generation. I'd say our parents' generation (Boomer gen) are FAR more racist than any younger generation.
I think the big problem is the fact that people just don't know what to do. Racism is so abstract right now. In the 60's it was people making lines of segregation and there were many places where it was downright hostile to be black in a 'white' community. Nowa days where everyone is MUCH more inter-mixed and the lines between races has become socially blurred, to some extent; Racism has sort of evolved into this quasi-tentative subject that seems to be like a mist in the air. You can taste it and feel it around you, but you don't always see it, except where it is thickest.
Therefore it is difficult for a generation, especially one that has had most of everything handed to it on a plate, to adequately deal with the situation at hand.
[QUOTE=MyAlt91;47315410]I went over this problem in my head once:
do you help people, to help people;
or do you help people, to feel good about helping people?
In the end, either one is helping people. So maybe people do it to feel-good,
but they are still helping others.
So is that really a bad thing?
Of course if you call it beeing a self-righteous asshole, I wouldn't wanna help people either :').[/QUOTE]
I'll leave the question "can any act truly be called selfless?" to philosophers...
Though it is certainly possible to help people and have it be an overall positive thing, at which point I don't really care about motivations.
But "SJWs" are not helping anyone because they have no interest in anything beyond the superficial appearance a problem has and being seen to fight against that appearance. Wallpapering over cracks. Useless at best, more often actively harmful.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;47308718]I disagree. That's making light of stereotype jokes, not actually looking at a race and thinking "yeah, I'm better than them."[/QUOTE]
It still reinforces the stereotypes though. Unless you're in a position where you regularly interact with someone of the race, there's no innate resistance to the stereotype the joke makes. ex: I saw the video about Latino mothers beating their kids with their scandals. Because it featured Latino actors and was about such a specific thing, I see it as being a cultural in-joke and have basis to doubt that this is a common practice in the Latino community.
I definitely agree with the article, but I think part of the reason that a lot of us are apathetic about the situation is it's incredibly difficult to get involved without appearing (either rightfully or otherwise) like a racist. It's far easier to let the members of the respective communities sort things out than get involved, not saying it's correct or right just what tends to happen.
Also in regards to racist humor you just need to know your audience. Humor is a really great way of commentary when done well, and shouldn't be restricted just because it pokes fun at a particular group. Similarly it shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine said groups, it's a fine line that a lot of people have trouble with. For example there's a guy in the group that I play games with that says "niggers" every other sentence and while we all like insensitive jokes we've had to tell him to shut up a couple times because bigotry like that stops being funny and just makes everyone uncomfortable.
[QUOTE=Velocet;47313731]I think the people who identify as "social justice warriors" are some of the most racist, sexist, classist and hateful people in the world. They're so far left that they wrap around the spectrum and end up on the right.[/QUOTE]
"Social justice warrior" is the new "race traitor". Racists/sexists/etc have been making this same argument against majorities that speak out against prejudice for centuries.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47316677]"Social justice warrior" is the new "race traitor". Racists/sexists/etc have been making this same argument against majorities that speak out against prejudice for centuries.[/QUOTE]
To me a social justice warrior isn't someone who speaks out against prejudice practices in a civil manner and wants dialogue and change, a Social Justice Warrior is someone who acts like they want to help minorities and disenfranchised peoples with their problems, but only go on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and other social media sites, and say some of the most bigoted, toxic, and polarized shit that will only sully the idea of social justice to normal people. In my experience "Social Justice Warriors" are the most racist, sexist, classicist, and hateful people I've encountered other than outspoken bigots. I'd go as far as to say that those kinds of people are closet racists trying really hard to prove they are not racist to themselves and others. Seriously, the way they talk to minorities that disagree with whatever they are saying is absolutely the most telling thing about those types of people.
[QUOTE=Durandal;47316898]To me a social justice warrior isn't someone who speaks out against prejudice practices in a civil manner and wants dialogue and change, a Social Justice Warrior is someone who acts like they want to help minorities and disenfranchised peoples with their problems, but only go on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and other social media sites, and say some of the most bigoted, toxic, and polarized shit that will only sully the idea of social justice to normal people. In my experience "Social Justice Warriors" are the most racist, sexist, classicist, and hateful people I've encountered other than outspoken bigots. I'd go as far as to say that those kinds of people are closet racists trying really hard to prove they are not racist to themselves and others. Seriously, the way they talk to minorities that disagree with whatever they are saying is absolutely the most telling thing about those types of people.[/QUOTE]
And like when male "feminists" tell a woman she's doing feminism wrong because she disagrees with them
It's ironic all these people who tell us to check our privilege and throw around all these buzzwords tend to be some of the most privileged white people just trying to sound smart
I've never actually heard anybody call themselves an SJW, it's an almost universally cringey label term and no self respecting individual would call themselves that regardless of their political/social opinions.
At this point it's mostly just used as derisive insult, that nobody uses in a serious context. If you do find somebody using it in a serious context, ignore them.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
For that matter has anybody actually seen somebody of note, calling themselves an SJW? It seems like the [URL="https://www.google.ca/search?q=sjw&espv=2&biw=2560&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5FQDVciFHMHxoATzkYKQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg"]entire association of the word[/URL] is one giant strawman argument.
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