[QUOTE=hypno-toad;47317446]I've never actually heard anybody call themselves an SJW, it's an almost universally cringey label term and no self respecting individual would call themselves that regardless of their political/social opinions.
At this point it's mostly just used as derisive insult, that nobody uses in a serious context. If you do find somebody using it in a serious context, ignore them.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
For that matter has anybody actually seen somebody of note, calling themselves an SJW? It seems like the [URL="https://www.google.ca/search?q=sjw&espv=2&biw=2560&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5FQDVciFHMHxoATzkYKQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg"]entire association of the word[/URL] is one giant strawman argument.[/QUOTE]
there are a few people on tumblr who use the term without a shred of irony to describe themselves
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;47317446]I've never actually heard anybody call themselves an SJW, it's an almost universally cringey label term and no self respecting individual would call themselves that regardless of their political/social opinions.
At this point it's mostly just used as derisive insult, that nobody uses in a serious context. If you do find somebody using it in a serious context, ignore them.
[editline]13th March 2015[/editline]
For that matter has anybody actually seen somebody of note, calling themselves an SJW? It seems like the [URL="https://www.google.ca/search?q=sjw&espv=2&biw=2560&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5FQDVciFHMHxoATzkYKQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg"]entire association of the word[/URL] is one giant strawman argument.[/QUOTE]
It's a word used to describe a kind of person, not a political banner. Just because a hypocrite doesn't identify as a hypocrite doesn't mean they aren't one.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47316677]"Social justice warrior" is the new "race traitor". Racists/sexists/etc have been making this same argument against majorities that speak out against prejudice for centuries.[/QUOTE]
People in the past called other people race traitor's because they were actual openly racist racists who wanted to maintain the status quo.
The common complaint that people have with social justice warriors is that they use emotionally manipulative arguments laden with logical fallacies in order to push a political agenda that they themselves don't really care about. And that they incorrectly call other people racist/sexist when they don't agree with that agenda.
I know you want to compare your self to people in the past who actively campaigned for equal rights so that you can lend yourself credibility while simultaneously poisoning the well in respect to anyone criticizing SJW's. But you're simply not comparing like with like.
[QUOTE=hydrated;47317574][B]there are a few people on tumblr[/B] who use the term without a shred of irony to describe themselves[/QUOTE]
There are a few people on Tumblr who believe being morbidly obese is healthy, and that they are actually the souls of multiple dragons imprisoned within a human body. We probably shouldn't pay too much attention to them. Hypno-Toad is right; regardless of what you think of social justice warrior as an ad hominem, it's not really something people "identify" with. They typically identify with something that gets them labeled as such.
SJW is the new LIBERAAAAAAAL
[QUOTE=Levithan;47317878]SJW is the new LIBERAAAAAAAL[/QUOTE]
Sometimes it's a word used by conservatives to insult anyone who believes women are equal to men. Sometimes it's a word used by liberals to refer to a group of culty self righteous conservatives masquerading as liberals.
In my experience, it's the latter more often than the former. That's how I use it, anyway.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;47317953]Sometimes it's a word used by conservatives to insult anyone who believes women are equal to men. Sometimes it's a word used by liberals to refer to a group of culty self righteous conservatives masquerading as liberals.
In my experience, it's the latter more often than the former. That's how I use it, anyway.[/QUOTE]
I just don't see the point of using it. I mean I know exactly the group of people Durandal are talking about and they are the absolute worst sorts of slacktivists to have taken advantage of the internet, but insulting them with an ad hominem that ends up confusing people about what social justice is seems largely secondary to taking apart their arguments and exposing them for the hateful bigots they are. I guess a lot of the time people end up doing both but I just never saw the point in insulting someone I'm debating with.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47317989]I just don't see the point of using it. I mean I know exactly the group of people Durandal are talking about and they are the absolute worst sorts of slacktivists to have taken advantage of the internet, but insulting them with an ad hominem that ends up confusing people about what social justice is seems largely secondary to taking apart their arguments and exposing them for the hateful bigots they are. I guess a lot of the time people end up doing both but I just never saw the point in insulting someone I'm debating with.[/QUOTE]
I agree, there really isn't much point in accusing someone of being an "SJW". I use it to refer to a general group of people with a certain mentality for convenience.
It's a word that describes a group of people who use certain arguments and tactics, and the arguments and tactics are what should be addressed.
[QUOTE=Durandal;47316898]To me a social justice warrior isn't someone who speaks out against prejudice practices in a civil manner and wants dialogue and change, a Social Justice Warrior is someone who acts like they want to help minorities and disenfranchised peoples with their problems, but only go on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and other social media sites, and say some of the most bigoted, toxic, and polarized shit that will only sully the idea of social justice to normal people. In my experience "Social Justice Warriors" are the most racist, sexist, classicist, and hateful people I've encountered other than outspoken bigots. I'd go as far as to say that those kinds of people are closet racists trying really hard to prove they are not racist to themselves and others. Seriously, the way they talk to minorities that disagree with whatever they are saying is absolutely the most telling thing about those types of people.[/QUOTE]
Social justice warrior originally meant what the term literally sounds like it means, and wasn't derogatory. Eventually it came to mean people who glom on to liberal/progressive causes, but only for their own personal benefit. ("Yeah liberalism is great! Healthcare, marijuana, woo! Gays are icky tho, why they gotta shove their lifestyle down my throat?")
Those people eventually co-opted the term themselves and now it's impossible to tell whether or not it's being used the way you use it, or just to mean [i]"LIBBBEERRRALLLLLS!"[/i]
The latter has become increasingly common now that right-wing bloggers have started tossing it around so much. The way it's "meant" to be used is not even the majority of how it [i]is[/i] used now.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47318985]Social justice warrior originally meant what the term literally sounds like it means, and wasn't derogatory. Eventually it came to mean people who glom on to liberal/progressive causes, but only for their own personal benefit. ("Yeah liberalism is great! Healthcare, marijuana, woo! Gays are icky tho, why they gotta shove their lifestyle down my throat?")
Those people eventually co-opted the term themselves and now it's impossible to tell whether or not it's being used the way you use it, or just to mean [i]"LIBBBEERRRALLLLLS!"[/i]
The latter has become increasingly common now that right-wing bloggers have started tossing it around so much. The way it's "meant" to be used is not even the majority of how it [i]is[/i] used now.[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't care what "right-wing bloggers" do, feel free to come up with your own term for the phenomenon, but if you ultimately categorize people by labels rather than their actions then you're falling into the same trap as the same "right-wing bloggers" you're complaining about in the first place. The whole point of SJW-style behavior is to take advantage of the labeling and political partisanship and arguments of semantics that's choking any form of actual discussion. If you label them in any other way, they will still call you misogynistic while sending you death threats and threatening to cut up and rape you, your wife, your friends and anyone else they can use to affect you.
Have a read of the links I posted earlier on this page, that's the kind of behavior that people enable by getting involved in this petty semantical bullshit. People care more about "those damn conservatives" than actual liberalism and real living peoples' well being. It's gotten to the point where SJW people can be as sexist, as racist and as misogynistic as possible and nobody cares because nobody can question them.
These people are not liberals, they are not left-wing, they are not feminists and they most certainly ARE NOT progressive, they don't care about Social Justice or people's rights, they just use it as an excuse to abuse people.
[QUOTE=Zyler;47319373]I honestly don't care what "right-wing bloggers" do, feel free to come up with your own term for the phenomenon, but if you ultimately categorize people by labels rather than their actions then you're falling into the same trap as the same "right-wing bloggers" you're complaining about in the first place. The whole point of SJW-style behavior is to take advantage of the labeling and political partisanship and arguments of semantics that's choking any form of actual discussion. If you label them in any other way, they will still call you misogynistic while sending you death threats and threatening to cut up and rape you, your wife, your friends and anyone else they can use to affect you. [/QUOTE]
I don't really see a reason to create a term though, I think thats the problem.
[QUOTE=Zyler;47319373]Have a read of the links I posted earlier on this page, that's the kind of behavior that people enable by getting involved in this petty semantical bullshit. People care more about "those damn conservatives" than actual liberalism and real living peoples' well being. It's gotten to the point where SJW people can be as sexist, as racist and as misogynistic as possible and nobody cares because nobody can question them. [/QUOTE]
In fairness, if you are going to turn to petty insults, expect petty semantics.
[QUOTE=Zyler;47319373]These people are not liberals, they are not left-wing, they are not feminists and they most certainly ARE NOT progressive, they don't care about Social Justice or people's rights, they just use it as an excuse to abuse people.[/QUOTE]
Preaching to the choir. Just because someone recognizes that SJW is useless as a label and is widely misused thanks to it's vague definition doesn't mean they are inherently defending the type of people SJW is the label for.
[editline]14th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;47318046]I agree, there really isn't much point in accusing someone of being an "SJW". I use it to refer to a general group of people with a certain mentality for convenience.
It's a word that describes a group of people who use certain arguments and tactics, and the arguments and tactics are what should be addressed.[/QUOTE]
I guess this is as close to clarity as I will get on a subject that I've argued back and forth several times on FP having said that time would be my last time :v:
I'm glad we agree that simply labeling people isn't as useful as addressing their arguments and tactics which again (to Zyler) are absolutely detestable. If nothing else, gamergate has shown me just how cruel and hateful these supposed advocates of social justice are capable of being.
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