Donald Trump elected President of the United States - Deal with it, lmao
1,893 replies, posted
I wholly expect someone to attempt to assassinate Trump in the near future (and with more planning than "grab a gun from a guard loel") given the history of presidential assassination the USA has.
And I honestly would have to chuckle a bit if it happened because the dumb cunt repeatedly all but outright called for the assassination of Clinton during the campaign trail, using weasel words to give himself and "out". But in context, and known the history of the country they were basically requests for some 2A fucknut to shoot her dead.
I'm not saying it'd be the right course of action. Just that it'd be ironic enough to get a bit of a chuckle before I get down to the nitty-gritty of contemplating how fucked the USA would be after that one.
What the fuck is in the water over there that convinced you guys this man, this bastion of stupidity, could run a country? At least Reagan was a Senator for a while before you gave him the keys to the nationwide ride. And look how badly he fucked you (and the rest of us) up, economics is a fucking mess because of him still and the middle east may not have been in quite this state if he didn't intervene with supporting Israel as hard as he did. Trump is this man, but stupider and willing to hand actual control to Pence, who appears to be some form of ancient curse in the form of man?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51342499]No libertarians either until they come up with somebody who isnt crazy[/QUOTE]
I'll run for the libertarians in 2028 if you want.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51342478]No they're not.
Military intelligence can be wrong[/QUOTE]
I think I said this last time, it's not like we'd torture ever low level courier, that would be unnecessary cruelty, but if we captured Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi or something, I'm sure there's information to be gleaned, again torture would be like the fourth option used if all the more civil methods didn't work.
[QUOTE=wystan;51342482]I think it's quite a stretch to say torture has never worked ever.[/QUOTE]
Nuking japan worked for stopping them in WWII, I guess American should just nuke any country that opposes them then, right?
[QUOTE=wystan;51342482]I think it's quite a stretch to say torture has never worked ever.[/QUOTE]
a broken clock is correct two times a day too
Torture doesnt always work as advertised and it's a reason it's a crime against human rights
Cruelty makes us just as inhuman as the monsters we fight against, take care that he who fights monsters doesnt turn into one himself
[QUOTE=wystan;51342469]Well the situation implies they are already terrorists, these are the confirmed bad people.[/QUOTE]
there ain't no such thing as a 100% confirmed "bad person" (not even trump)
[QUOTE=wystan;51342469]Well the situation implies they are already terrorists, these are the confirmed bad people.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, confirmed bad people, let's pull off their fingernails, skin the soles of their feet and rape them!
They're bad people after all, right?
I just hope that the United States and Russia's relationship really improves over the next few years. I have a Russian friend that would be really happy if that happens.
[QUOTE=1legmidget;51342506]The CIA thinks not.[/QUOTE]
When the CIA, with all of its history, is telling you that an intelligence-gathering method does not produce useful intelligence and isn't worth risking harming innocents over, it's time to stop.
[QUOTE=wystan;51342515]I think I said this last time, it's not like we'd torture ever low level courier, that would be unnecessary cruelty, but if we captured Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi or something, I'm sure there's information to be gleaned, again torture would be like the fourth option used if all the more civil methods didn't work.[/QUOTE]
Tortured men will admit to anything. The information gathered cannot be trusted as accurate.
[QUOTE=OvB;51342526]Tortured men will admit to anything. The information gathered cannot be trusted as accurate.[/QUOTE]
He was told this often enough but he refuses to believe in the truth of this statement.
[QUOTE=OvB;51342526]Tortured men will admit to anything. The information gathered cannot be trusted as accurate.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51342531]He was told this often enough but he refuses to believe in the truth of this statement.[/QUOTE]
Correct information can still fall under "anything".
[QUOTE=wystan;51342515]I think I said this last time, it's not like we'd torture ever low level courier, that would be unnecessary cruelty, but if we captured Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi or something, I'm sure there's information to be gleaned, again torture would be like the fourth option used if all the more civil methods didn't work.[/QUOTE]
Okay then how about this. The person you just said gets tortured and points out your mother as the mastermind of some terrorist operation. The CIA then takes and tortures her to get that information. I guess it's okay then since another instance of torture "confirmed" that she's a bad person, right?
[QUOTE=Judas;51342472]pence is almost a bulletproof vest for trump, everyone will be afraid to kick him out because pence will be much, much worse[/QUOTE]
Does anything stop Pence from getting the boot
Ok if you ignore Hillary's stealing, lying, negligence of national security, the cover ups, the deleted emails, etc... I would have voted for her too.
"But Trump grabbed a woman!":rolleyes:
[QUOTE=wystan;51342482]I think it's quite a stretch to say torture has never worked ever.[/QUOTE]
The CIA itself has said that it [I]simply hasn't.[/I]
You continue to argue against reality. You continue to hold feelings as facts; ignorance as virtue. It is an absolutely shameful performance. [I]Please[/I], Wystan, try to actually learn something and improve your understanding of the world we live in! At the very least, do it for yourself, man. Like, shit, you don't even have to agree with me afterwards -- just use the [B]fact[/B] that torture does not work to allow you to better shape your own stance on the subject.
I'll post the same thing I posted in the other thread:
[quote][QUOTE=wystan;49699960]I don't mean to ignore points but it's hard to keep track of all the replies and questions, I am quite out numbered here. I don't see really any holes since these are just my beliefs.
As for the whole me being an ISIS member given different circumstances thing. I had to think about this one but I think they're are some differences between the actions and rationale of ISIS and just me simply being ok with torture. I don't wish to kill or torture those who disagree with me, that is only reserved for those actively trying to kill Americans, but for nations whose government just don't like us (Venezuela for example) I don't wish death or anything upon them, yes I have my unfavorable opinions of them but nothing you all would consider extreme. I don't want to kill or torture "non-believers" of my American Exceptionalism.[/QUOTE]
Let me sum them up
[B]1. Torture doesn't work for information gathering[/B]
Torture produces results. Not reliable results. Like it's been said, two of the three initial suspects in the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephanie_Crowe]murder of Stephanie Crowe[/url] confessed to the murder, despite later being ruled innocent. And that was through coercion, threats, and multiple, long interrogation sessions, not physical torture. The [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture]Senate's Report on CIA torture[/url] shows that it is counterproductive, and more often than not, produces either false or no data. It shines a light on the interrogation of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Zubaydah]Abu Zubaydah[/url], which is often cited as being a "life saving" example of information acquired through torture.
[quote]In 2009, a former FBI agent, Ali Soufan, who had taken part in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah seven years earlier, said that [B]all the useful intelligence came from traditional non-violent questioning, and that his later waterboarding produced nothing further of value.[/B]
“Almost all the agency officials I worked with on these issues were good people who felt as I did about the use of enhanced techniques: [B]it is un-American, ineffective and harmful to our national security[/B]”[/quote]
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work[/url]
There is little scientific evidence that torture works. Which is probably why CIA's torture had little to no scientific oversight.
[quote]One reason the “ticking time bomb” myth has been allowed to persist is that the [B]CIA has resisted any scientific oversight of its interrogation programme[/B], instead continuing to use decades-old coercive techniques despite a lack of evidence that they work. [B]A 2006 review of US interrogation methods concluded that the lack of research meant that interrogators had to make things up “on the fly”, which was leading to cases of abuse.[/B] To redress this, in 2012 the White House put out a call for “behavioral science research to advance the science and practice of intelligence interviewing and interrogation”, but it has had little impact so far.
The only role that science has played in the CIA’s interrogation programme has been hugely controversial. [B]Between 2002 and 2009, the enhanced aspects of the programme were designed and operated by two former military psychologists. “Neither psychologist had any experience as an interrogator, nor did either have specialized knowledge of al-Qa’ida, a background in counterterrorism, or any relevant cultural or linguistic expertise,” [/B]the Senate investigation found. Other psychologists have had lesser roles in the programme, participating in or overseeing interrogations. This has also proved to be contentious, and the American Psychological Association is currently under fire for allowing its members to take part in coercive interrogations, a charge it denies.[/quote]
[url]https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26685-that-cia-torture-methods-were-pointless-is-no-shock[/url]
Brain research professor Shane O'Mara supports the hypothesis by saying:
[quote][...][B]torture does not produce reliable information largely because of the severity with which it impairs the ability to think.[/B] Extreme pain, cold, sleep deprivation and fear of torture itself all damage memory, mood and cognition. [B]Torture does not persuade people to make a reasoned decision to cooperate, but produces panic, dissociation, unconsciousness and long-term neurological damage. It also produces an intense desire to keep talking to prevent further torture.[/B][/quote]
[url]https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/[/url]
[B]2. Torture doesn't work as propaganda[/B]
The only thing torture tells your enemies is that you're the monster they always said you were. It legitimizes hatred and fuels terrorist practices. The fear serves as no deterrent.
[quote]Among the most notable victims of torture was Sayeed Qutb, the founding father of modern political jihadism. His 1964 book, “Milestones,” describes a journey towards radicalization that included rape and torture, sometimes with dogs, in an Egyptian prison. [B]He left jail burning with the determination to wage transnational jihad to destroy these regimes and their backers, calling for war against all those who used these methods against Muslims.[/B][/quote]
[url]http://www.salon.com/2014/12/17/rula_jebreal_torture_defenders_are_driving_america_to_moral_suicide_partner/[/url]
The head of US intelligence said:
[quote]“The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world,” [Director of National Intelligence Dennis] Blair said in the statement. [B]“The damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security.”[/B][/quote]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042104334.html[/url][/quote]
[QUOTE=Fox Powers;51342536]Does anything stop Pence from getting the boot[/QUOTE]
I mean, if trump were impeached or god forbid assassinated, pence would probably be vulnerable to the same means. I don't think there's anything stopping it, but chances are probably low.
[QUOTE=wystan;51342533]Correct information can still fall under "anything".[/QUOTE]
Sure, it might. The keyword there being [i]might[/i]. You have no way of then knowing whether it actually is correct information or not. Good job, you tortured someone and they told you something that you don't know if it's true or not. You achieved NOTHING.
[QUOTE=Lunakrypt;51342542]Ok if you ignore Hillary's stealing, lying, negligence of national security, the cover ups, the deleted emails, etc... I would have voted for her too.
"But Trump grabbed a woman!":rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Why do you say that like it's no big deal? It's literally sexual assault. People go to prison for that, end up on sex offender registries alongside rapists and child molesters for the rest of their lives. Completely setting aside whatever you believe Clinton to be guilty of, Trump's shit is [I]still pretty damn serious.[/I]
[QUOTE=wystan;51342533]Correct information can still fall under "anything".[/QUOTE]
If you could prevent a terrorist attack in your country by committing a different terrorist attack in your country, would you do it? What's the line that you won't cross?
[QUOTE=wystan;51342482]I think it's quite a stretch to say torture has never worked ever.[/QUOTE]
its really starting to sound like this with you:
[IMG]https://pics.onsizzle.com/wint-dril-i-put-years-of-hard-work-into-getting-3526244.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=wystan;51342533]Correct information can still fall under "anything".[/QUOTE]
Let me break it down into a hypothetical sample
take 10 individuals who are subjected to torture for whatever given reason
six happen to be innocent of any wrongdoing but got picked up on suspicion
two happen to be couriers or support staff for an extremist group
two others happen to be actual terrorists
you still tortured six innocent people in the hope that one of these ten might have information that may or may not be true and may or may not have any real value even
What happens if this torture alienates some of those six enough to tacitly support or directly declare themselves for a terror group?
You are more likely to cause [I][B]more[/B][/I] harm using "intel" gained through torture.
Imprison and/or kill innocent people because surprise surprise "bad people" are likely to lie while treated badly.
Wystan, please, [B][I][U]stop and think for a minute.[/U][/I][/B]
[QUOTE=wystan;51342515]I think I said this last time, it's not like we'd torture ever low level courier, that would be unnecessary cruelty, but if we captured Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi or something, I'm sure there's information to be gleaned, again torture would be like the fourth option used if all the more civil methods didn't work.[/QUOTE]
if the CIA has [I]confirmed[/I] that torture is not a useful method of gathering actionable intelligence, why bother?
wystan is way more invested in purely winning the argument than he is about maintaining integrity or understanding other viewpoints. Best to move on imo.
So when the economy inevitably drops to shit within the next few years, who will Trump voters blame? Obama?
Drowning a sack of kittens may not have ever helped us stop a terrorist attack before, but if you don't think I'll do [I]everything necessary[/I] to protect my fellow Americans then you are just as bad as ISIS. I will drown a litter of kittens every single morning if that's what it takes for me to discover terroristic plots against my people!
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51342550]Why do you say that like it's no big deal? It's literally sexual assault. People go to prison for that, end up on sex offender registries alongside rapists and child molesters for the rest of their lives. Completely setting aside whatever you believe Clinton to be guilty of, Trump's shit is [I]still pretty damn serious.[/I][/QUOTE]
Well normally people go to prison for the things that Hillary did as well. And like a lot of her supporters say. "She was never convicted." Guess what, neither was Trump! Is he a good guy. No. But I trust him more that Hillary any day.
I find it really hard to understand how you can value the continued jiggling and multiplying of cells in a woman's womb, which has literally no awareness or conscious existence, more than you value not subjecting [B]people[/B] to unimaginable agony in a vague attempt to capture unreliable knowledge.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.