SORT OF JUST HAPPENED:Plane carrying Brazilian football team Chapecoense crashes in Colombia
59 replies, posted
Damn that's sad
[img]https://i.imgur.com/bt3i3oA.png[/img]
Also 19 team members of the 22 on-board were killed.
[editline]29th November 2016[/editline]
[media]https://twitter.com/UberFootbalI/status/803545672607678464[/media]
Noticing a very rapid loss of airspeed to near final-approach levels and a very quick (>2000 fpm) descent while in a holding pattern south of the field, if these ADS-B scraper sites are to be believed
if this isn't some kind of mechanical or electrical issue compounded by bad resource management in the cockpit I'm going to be very surprised
[media]https://twitter.com/Marcelo_Hazan/status/803626531255775232[/media]
[quote]Brazilian clubs announce that they will loan players without fees to Chapecoense for 2017 and ask they be exempt from relegation for 3 years[/quote]
[media]https://twitter.com/BarranquillaBQ/status/803621894326927360[/media]
[quote]Perished goalkeeper Marcos Danilo leaves his soccer legacy behind with his young son.[/quote]
Man this is so sad to hear.
Also the team just got relegated to the 1st league a few years ago.
I really do love the response from the football community though. Despite the corruption, it shows how football is more than just a sport.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;51445944]Man this is so sad to hear.
Also the team just got relegated to the 1st league a few years ago.
I really do love the response from the football community though. Despite the corruption, it shows how football is more than just a sport.[/QUOTE]
other clubs want to loan players and also appealed to prevent them from relegation for 3yrs.
must be devestating to be a fan.
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=timz9;51445005]Noticing a very rapid loss of airspeed to near final-approach levels and a very quick (>2000 fpm) descent while in a holding pattern south of the field, if these ADS-B scraper sites are to be believed
if this isn't some kind of mechanical or electrical issue compounded by bad resource management in the cockpit I'm going to be very surprised[/QUOTE]
it ran out of fuel apparently...
man, i'm not into football, but hearing about this and seeing how some people i knew took this was fucking devastating. :/
again the context is that this team rose out of nothing and is now competing in the final of the south american cup. and wow. just god damn.
[QUOTE=AK'z;51447841]it ran out of fuel apparently...[/QUOTE]
I just read the same and I just kinda have to ask how you manage to do that? This is all very tragic, but if it turns out to have been completely avoidable as well that just makes it worse in my opinion.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51451907]I just read the same and I just kinda have to ask how you manage to do that? This is all very tragic, but if it turns out to have been completely avoidable as well that just makes it worse in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
70% of airplane accidents are human caused. It's quite complicated on how you could run out of fuel. Not as hard as you think.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51451907]I just read the same and I just kinda have to ask how you manage to do that? This is all very tragic, but if it turns out to have been completely avoidable as well that just makes it worse in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
The plane, an Avro RJ85, has a [URL="http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/british-aerospace-avro-rj7085100/47"]maximum distance (max fuel) of 2965km, which is 1842.4 miles[/URL]. Apparently, the distance from Santa Cruz to Medellin is 2974km, or 1848 miles.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyaSTZ2WQAA_J2b.jpg[/t]
It's likely that they didn't make any enhancements to the fuel tank, and crashed due to a lack of fuel very close to their destination.
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51452365]The plane, an Avro RJ85, has a [URL="http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/british-aerospace-avro-rj7085100/47"]maximum distance (max fuel) of 2965km, which is 1842.4 miles[/URL]. Apparently, the distance from Santa Cruz to Medellin is 2974km, or 1848 miles.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyaSTZ2WQAA_J2b.jpg[/t]
It's likely that they didn't make any enhancements to the fuel tank, and crashed due to a lack of fuel very close to their destination.[/QUOTE]
thats going to be an epic rube goldberg of people fucking up to make that happen.
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51452365]The plane, an Avro RJ85, has a [URL="http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/british-aerospace-avro-rj7085100/47"]maximum distance (max fuel) of 2965km, which is 1842.4 miles[/URL]. Apparently, the distance from Santa Cruz to Medellin is 2974km, or 1848 miles.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyaSTZ2WQAA_J2b.jpg[/t]
It's likely that they didn't make any enhancements to the fuel tank, and crashed due to a lack of fuel very close to their destination.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/chapecoense-air-crash-fans-plane-fuel-colombia[/url]
Confirmed, plane ran out of fuel. Another plane with mechanical issues got landing priority from ATC and they made them wait.
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;51456444][url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/chapecoense-air-crash-fans-plane-fuel-colombia[/url]
Confirmed, plane ran out of fuel. Another plane with mechanical issues got landing priority from ATC and they made them wait.[/QUOTE]
In that case this is a fuck up of monumental proportions.
Hard choice for ATC. If they let the first plane land, would the plane with mechanical problems have crashed?
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51456468]Hard choice for ATC. If they let the first plane land, would the plane with mechanical problems have crashed?[/QUOTE]
That sounds like an ethical dilemma.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51456472]That sounds like an ethical dilemma.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. They train ATC for a while to deal with all sorts of problems, and even then they are limited to low hour work weeks.
Emergencies get priority. Them not having the [I]lawfully required amount of reserve fuel[/I] is a fatal error that led to this crash.
ATC is not at fault. The pilots are.
[quote]A controller explained another plane had been diverted with mechanical problems and had priority, instructing the pilot to wait seven minutes.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Code3Response;51456493]Emergencies get priority. Them not having the [I]lawfully required amount of reserve fuel[/I] is a fatal error that led to this crash.
ATC is not at fault. The pilots are.[/QUOTE]
If their fuel levels weren't enough then surely the airline have some responsibility too? If the pilot is told he can't land because another plane has priority, how can this be his fault?
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51456596]If their fuel levels weren't enough then surely the airline have some responsibility too? If the pilot is told he can't land because another plane has priority, how can this be his fault?[/QUOTE]
Pilot has ultimate authority over the flight. He can be dispatched lesser fuel, but he has the authority to cancel the flight unless they receive more fuel.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;51456614]Pilot has ultimate authority over the flight. He can be dispatched lesser fuel, but he has the authority to cancel the flight unless they receive more fuel.[/QUOTE]
I thought that the issue was that the plane was fueled to capacity and that the capacity was already very close to the wire, the issue of having to circle whilst waiting for another plane to land caused the problem, this wouldn't be the fault of the pilot but the logistics of flying long distances with only just the right amount of fuel to get the plane to it's destination without incident.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51456674]I thought that the issue was that the plane was fueled to capacity and that the capacity was already very close to the wire, the issue of having to circle whilst waiting for another plane to land caused the problem, this wouldn't be the fault of the pilot but the logistics of flying long distances with only just the right amount of fuel to get the plane to it's destination without incident.[/QUOTE]
While the airline might get some flak for it, its still the pilot's responsibility. If the pilot routinely flew without the required reserve fuel, then that pilot should have been removed and banned a long time ago. This pilot just killed the team and themself beacuse he didnt want to follow the law.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;51456818]While the airline might get some flak for it, its still the pilot's responsibility. If the pilot routinely flew without the required reserve fuel, then that pilot should have been removed and banned a long time ago. This pilot just killed the team and themself beacuse he didnt want to follow the law.[/QUOTE]
Has it been suggested that he flew without the required reserve fuel?
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51456933]Has it been suggested that he flew without the required reserve fuel?[/QUOTE]
When you're in a hold for 7 minutes and run out of fuel, thats less than the 30 minutes you're required to have. I wouldn't say suggested, but its painfully obvious they didnt legally have enough fuel to fly to their destination.
This is what the crash report will read, mark my words. All news articles say the were in holding for 7 minutes before running out of fuel which raises a bigger question: if they couldnt land at their destination, would they have enough fuel to make it to their alternate airport? Likely not.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51451907]I just read the same and I just kinda have to ask how you manage to do that? This is all very tragic, but if it turns out to have been completely avoidable as well that just makes it worse in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
If you watch Air Crash Investigation episodes, you'll see instances like this that occurred and they weren't supposed to happen.
But this pilot thought to skip a fucking fuel stop and not declare an emergency. If this turns out of be the case, that will be completely horrendous.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51456468]Hard choice for ATC. If they let the first plane land, would the plane with mechanical problems have crashed?[/QUOTE]
Well one plane was leaking fuel, and another had no fuel.
Well another news story to reawaken one of my nightmares of air travel. If the plane goes haywire, you pretty much have 0% percent chance of surviving. You better pray to whatever you believe in because a miracle is the only thing thats going to save your ass.
Interesting read at [URL="http://avherald.com/h?article=4a16583c&opt=0"]Avherald comments[/URL]. I usually use this site and I do recommend people to use sites like these for aviation related news because 99% of the time the news at "major sites" are written by reporters who can't even differentiate Boeing and Airbus. Trust me I've read too much nonsense over the years.
A very interesting tl;dr from one of the comments on the article: (note* I had to paraphrase it a bit to make it easier to read)
[quote]
> One-plane charter company, original deal was to fly from Brazil to Colombia. ANAC (Brazil equivalent to FAA) didn't authorize the flight, because it would be a Bolivian company flying between 2 other countries.
> Captain-owner decided to contract another company to ferry the passengers from Brazil to Bolivia.
> As the situation was getting complicated, schedules getting delayed because of the extra leg in the journey, it was decided to fill the tanks to maximum capacity and try a direct flight to Medellin, from Santa Cruz de la Sierra, Bolivia.
> Cobija (Bolivia) and Bogota (Colombia) were considered refueling stops in case fuel got really short, although Cobija was later discarded as it doesn't operate by night.
>Flight was already very delayed and the company already had an unexpected (and heavy) bill to pay (company contracted for the Brazil > Bolivia flight).
> Arriving in Medellin, LaMia was number 4 for landing, put on hold at Fl 210. Priority was given to another flight that reported fuel problems. If the captain were to call emergency there will surely be an investigation and the airline would be fined for flying with illegal amounts of fuel.
> Only at the last moments LaMia reported fuel problems, and at the last seconds complete electrical failure, probably because had lost all engines power.
All the above information was collected from Brazilian, Colombian and Bolivian media.
[/quote]
this isn't even tragic it's straight up negligence.
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