Good job MS, you stabed yourself again: An Absolutely Terrifying Chart For Windows 8 sales - Polidicks

like i said in a different thread anyone defending win 7 not being supported anymore would probably be up in arms if microsoft decided to lets say drop xbox live support for the 360 to force people to get the one, but instead of the one its actually the 360 slim edition.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;43134138]like i said in a different thread anyone defending win 7 not being supported anymore would probably be up in arms if microsoft decided to lets say drop xbox live support for the 360 to force people to get the one, but instead of the one its actually the 360 slim edition.[/QUOTE] Stop selling and and stop supporting are two completely different things. It's more like Microsoft discontinuing the sale of the original 360 to get you to buy the newer version.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;43134138]like i said in a different thread anyone defending win 7 not being supported anymore would probably be up in arms if microsoft decided to lets say drop xbox live support for the 360 to force people to get the one, but instead of the one its actually the 360 slim edition.[/QUOTE] Except win7 is going to be supported for years to come.

I still love how the fact that the start menu is gone is still the only gripe people have with Win8. Personally, I've found metro after 8.1 pretty amazing and I use metro apps equally alongside my desktop ones. People need to actually try it out for a good month or so before you make a hard judgement. Spending 5 minutes on your friends old gateway laptop is not a fair judgement on metro.

They should focus on more important features like that new filesystem they're supposedly working on that doesn't need to be defragmented anymore.

[QUOTE=Blackbird88;43134422]They should focus on more important features like that new filesystem they're supposedly working on that [B]doesn't need to be defragmented anymore[/B].[/QUOTE] Woah woah woah. THIS is nice.

[QUOTE=redBadger;43134324]I still love how the fact that the start menu is gone is still the only gripe people have with Win8. Personally, I've found metro after 8.1 pretty amazing and I use metro apps equally alongside my desktop ones. People need to actually try it out for a good month or so before you make a hard judgement. Spending 5 minutes on your friends old gateway laptop is not a fair judgement on metro.[/QUOTE] Theres also the forced vsync, the negligible performance increases, and the general lack of additional features to justify a $100 pricetag.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43124033]Switching from XP to 7 resulted in a TON of improvements. Windows 8 needs to be unanimously better in every way if they want people to switch. That means bring back the option to use the start menu exactly the way it works in Windows 7.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be significantly better even if they did remove Metro. There are speed improvements, but it's not massive. And that's kinda the issue, it's not worth upgrading from 7 with the current price. I don't agree with all the people saying it's somehow worse though, it's not like you HAVE to use Metro.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43134438]Theres also the forced vsync, the negligible performance increases, and the general lack of additional features to justify a $100 pricetag.[/QUOTE] What is it about the Vsync stuff? Either I haven't encountered it, or else I just don't notice. A google search yields nothing for me.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;43134528]What is it about the Vsync stuff? Either I haven't encountered it, or else I just don't notice. A google search yields nothing for me.[/QUOTE] [url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh848042%28v=vs.85%29.aspx[/url] This, according to reports, forces VSync to always be on in all cases other than fullscreen games IIRC.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;43124374]You can't expect to put out a new OS so quickly and expect the demand to be there. Businesses took like 6 or 7 years to want to switch off of xp to 7[/QUOTE] As it shows, My work is still using XP. I can't see windows 8 or it's predecessor being as popular as 7 currently, theirs really no good reason to switch.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43134638][url]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh848042%28v=vs.85%29.aspx[/url] This, according to reports, forces VSync to always be on in all cases other than fullscreen games IIRC.[/QUOTE] What reports? Also according to that article, if you have Aero turned on in Windows 7 you would be experiencing the same issue. But you're probably not, because it's not an issue, I even tested it myself: [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14597902/FP%20uploads/huh.png[/t]

[QUOTE=RautaPalli;43134668]What reports? Also according to that article, if you have Aero turned on in Windows 7 you would be experiencing the same issue. But you're probably not, because it's not an issue, I even tested it myself: [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14597902/FP%20uploads/huh.png[/t][/QUOTE] People are reporting input lag that is most associated with vsync, many still ahve this issue with 7 it would seem. I myself haven't had that issue with 7, but those that do have that issue and haven't even gotten 7 because of that will then be less inclined to get 8 because the issue still exists. And even if this isn't much of an issue, the negligible performance increases, general lack of additional noteworthy features, and forced Metro just make it very unappealing to a lot of people, as my original point stated.

[QUOTE=RautaPalli;43134668]What reports? Also according to that article, if you have Aero turned on in Windows 7 you would be experiencing the same issue. But you're probably not, because it's not an issue, I even tested it myself: [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14597902/FP%20uploads/huh.png[/t][/QUOTE] I assume (as I don't know) but game renders at full speed and then the desktop renders everything at 60 or whatever making the fps counter for game irrelevant. How much fps does the desktop report?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;43134765]I assume (as I don't know) but game renders at full speed and then the desktop renders everything at 60 or whatever making the fps counter for game irrelevant. How much fps does the desktop report?[/QUOTE] I don't know, the "Monitor Aero desktop" option in Fraps doesn't seem to do anything in Windows 8. Any clue what else I could use to check?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;43134765]I assume (as I don't know) but game renders at full speed and then the desktop renders everything at 60 or whatever making the fps counter for game irrelevant. How much fps does the desktop report?[/QUOTE] I checked in KSP, and while I can't get Fraps to report desktop FPS, the framerate in KSP [I]definitely[/I] corresponds with the one shown by Fraps.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;43134824]I checked in KSP, and while I can't get Fraps to report desktop FPS, the framerate in KSP [I]definitely[/I] corresponds with the one shown by Fraps.[/QUOTE] What's KSP? Google only returns Kerbal which is a game so the same point stands.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;43134854]What's KSP? Google only returns Kerbal which is a game so the same point stands.[/QUOTE] I should probably rephrase that. Yes, it's Kerbal Space Program. My point was that perceived dips in framerate inside the game corresponded to dips in Fraps' FPS counter. I can tell the difference between it running at 35 or 55, which - if we assume Vsync is always in place when playing in windowed mode - should both be seen as 30FPS (as far as I know, at least). Enabling Vsync in KSP also makes a visible change, so personally I'd say I can't confirm that Vsync is in place when playing windowed games. But of course, there's a good deal of subjectivity included in this test, and as such I won't deny that there could be Vsync enabled anyway. Also, I don't really have time to do extensive testing right now, like at all, and KSP is probably not the best example anyway.

Goddamn ninjas.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43135035]He asked what the [I]desktop[/I] reported as a framerate, not KSP.[/QUOTE] Well, as I wrote in the post you quoted I couldn't get it to show the desktop framerate, try as I might. Chrome seems to be capped at 60FPS, though. And I should have phrased that post better, it's easy to misunderstand what I meant. I cleared it up in the second post.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;43135028]I should probably rephrase that. Yes, it's Kerbal Space Program. My point was that perceived dips in framerate inside the game corresponded to dips in Fraps' FPS counter. I can tell the difference between it running at 35 or 55, which - if we assume Vsync is always in place when playing in windowed mode - should both be seen as 30FPS (as far as I know, at least). Enabling Vsync in KSP also makes a visible change, so personally I'd say I can't confirm that Vsync is in place when playing windowed games. But of course, there's a good deal of subjectivity included in this test, and as such I won't deny that there could be Vsync enabled anyway. Also, I don't really have time to do extensive testing right now, like at all, and KSP is probably not the best example anyway.[/QUOTE] [del]I don't know what type of vsync KSP uses, but almost everything has triple buffered vsync now which means it's not going to cap at 30 even if the framerate dips below 60.[/del] Actually never mind, we're not even talking about the game's own vsync implementation. But either way someone could test this in Windows 7 anyway assuming that the article S31-Syntax linked has anything to do with it. DWM is also always enabled in Windows 7 if you have Aero turned on, which I assume the majority does these days.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43133773]You buy a new computer, its gonna have W8. Literally nothing you can do about that except wax it when you get home.[/QUOTE] or if you're smart you'll build one yourself, or learn to build one cost effectiveness 101

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;43135180]or if you're smart you'll build one yourself, or learn to build one cost effectiveness 101[/QUOTE] And how much of Microsofts target market builds their own machine?

Pretty much everyone I know hates Windows 8. I don't really care that much, but the average user - in my experience - doesn't seem to like it really.

[QUOTE=Neddy;43123978]Tbh. Its not microsofts fault that people hate change. The operating itself is fast as hell and has alot of improvements from windows 7. The UI is the only reason it isn't selling when it takes roughly 5-10 minutes to get use to. People just need to get use to the change. It isn't necessary hard to learn how to use metro at all.[/QUOTE] I love change, I even got Vista the day RC1 came out and couldn't have been happier. My problems with Windows 8 are not about not liking change. Windows 8 is completely inconsistent (2 completely separate design languages and UIs) and Metro doesn't make any sense at all on a desktop PC.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43135262]And how much of Microsofts target market builds their own machine?[/QUOTE] people need to learn to build these things it's really not that hard managing a screwdriver and putting something on a socket

Windows 8 RT died a horrible death, so what does that also say.

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;43135879]people need to learn to build these things it's really not that hard managing a screwdriver and putting something on a socket[/QUOTE] I've always compared building a computer to building a very expensive lego set. (The modern lego sets where bits are less generic and more specific to sets and are hard to use with anything else)

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;43135879]people need to learn to build these things it's really not that hard managing a screwdriver and putting something on a socket[/QUOTE] I know, and you're absolutely right, but its not going to happen and Microsoft knows this. Thats why they're so quick to axe the OEM sales of win7, because they want win8 to succeed and the [I]only chance they have of doing that[/I] is by cramming it down the throat every new pre-built customer they can find.

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;43135879]people need to learn to build these things it's really not that hard managing a screwdriver and putting something on a socket[/QUOTE] Tell that to a office division, grandma & grandpa, busy baby family or those looking for a laptop.