North Korean scientist flees to Finland with gigabytes of data on inhumane experiments with biochemi
72 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48106028]So long as china is their ally not much we can do with how much of the economy they control[/QUOTE]
i think the reasom why we don't do anything about NK is because 1. seoul will be turned to dust the instant we step troops into the DMZ and 2. we might have to massacre all of their civillians just for pacification (an exaggeration)
[editline]2nd July 2015[/editline]
i imagine china would love not needing to babysit the norks anymore
Holy fuck this is actually super interesting
[QUOTE=EcksDee;48106591]I somehow doubt they're a kind of super-bloc of ultra evil axis countries that will 100% always help eachother in every situation.
I'm most likely wrong, but I at least like to think that's not the case.[/QUOTE]
Why do you think NK hasn't been bombed back to the stone age dude?
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48106899]Why do you think NK hasn't been bombed back to the stone age dude?[/QUOTE]
Because thats inhumane?
Why isnt the world bombed back to the stone age? Why arent all criminals killed?
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48106899]Why do you think NK hasn't been bombed back to the stone age dude?[/QUOTE]
For probably many complex political and geopolitical reasons that don't involve "If we attack north korea then Russia and China will also invade us"
Plus China-DPRK relations in particular are not exactly "best buddies forever". I see it as China (being the DPRK's biggest source of arms, food, aid etc etc) holding up NK so that a regime collapse doesn't cause a massive influx of migrants and refugees from NK (among other reasons).
If we consider how much of China's trade happens with the US and Europe, and with NK, I somehow doubt they'd actually enter a world war for that little cancerous growth of a country they got.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48106724]i think the reasom why we don't do anything about NK is because 1. seoul will be turned to dust the instant we step troops into the DMZ [/QUOTE]
are people seriously still spouting this uninformed bullshit
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48107034]are people seriously still spouting this uninformed bullshit[/QUOTE]
What information do you have then?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48106724]i think the reasom why we don't do anything about NK is because 1. seoul will be turned to dust the instant we step troops into the DMZ and 2. we might have to massacre all of their civillians just for pacification (an exaggeration)
[editline]2nd July 2015[/editline]
i imagine china would love not needing to babysit the norks anymore[/QUOTE]
No one wants to inherit all of North Korea's problems, not even South Korea. That's why a majority of their unification talks are just for the sake of appearances.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48107034]are people seriously still spouting this uninformed bullshit[/QUOTE]
Yeah its not like north korea got hundreds of artilleries pointed towards seoul. Same goes for south korea that has hundreds of artilleries pointed towards pyongyang. The countries are still at war with each other and will pound their cities to dust if any side tries to do anything.
First, that North Korea can't keep as many guns trained on Seoul as they want, simply because the more guns they got, the easiest it is for [I]everyone[/I] else to find them via drones, satelites and even the ocassional sharp eye observer. And that's [I]without[/I] counting supply trucks, barracks and all the facilities that you need to get those guns firing in the first place.
Second, that Seoul is at at least 50 kilometers away from the frontier, putting the city already at the limits of the effective range of most howitzers currently in service.
Third, as soon as the first wave of shell impacts the city, the ROK and US armies will launch a counterattack with everything they got. To keep the guns safe from counter-battery fire, NK will have to move their guns around, which means you have less guns firing on the city.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48107083]What information do you have then?[/QUOTE]
The fact that the north relies exclusively on a first wave to overrun any kind of US/SK defences and get to Seul in record time due to the fact that the US can and will totally obliterate their supply and logistics chains with air power via Bombers, Fighters, UAV drones, helicopters and so on. And once that's done, no amount of guys with AKs and T55's will change anything.
Plus the fact that once reinforcements arrive from Japan and the Carrier Groups, their ground units can't do shit.
THe problem is not NK going into SK, the problem is the viceversa, everyone else going into NK as they have a huge clusterfuck off tunnels, and hell, if we buy their way of behaving, they must have everything way more booby trapped than ISIS when it fall backs.
Plus, mountains.
[QUOTE=G3rman;48107140]No one wants to inherit all of North Korea's problems, not even South Korea. That's why a majority of their unification talks are just for the sake of appearances.[/QUOTE]
Everybody wants to help North Korea, but nobody wants to bear the burden
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48107186]Everybody wants to help North Korea, but nobody wants to bear the burden[/QUOTE]
I reckon rebuilding North Korea is going to be a team effort.
Kinda like what the United Nations were supposed to do back in the fifties.
North Korea is like if the Berlin wall never came down and was the size of an entire nation.
[QUOTE=MedicWine;48106610]I wonder how many non-Korean assassins he could possibly have[/QUOTE]
RAYHALO, Kim's most loyal assassin.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48107083]What information do you have then?[/QUOTE]
In just about every thread involving North Korea that I've seen, it has inevitably provoked me into making a long-winded response. Read those, I've explained why the DPRK wouldn't "level Seoul" probably ten or fifteen times now. I'll touch up on it a bit though:
[QUOTE=freaka;48107162]Yeah its not like north korea got hundreds of artilleries pointed towards seoul. Same goes for south korea that has hundreds of artilleries pointed towards pyongyang. The countries are still at war with each other and will pound their cities to dust if any side tries to do anything.[/QUOTE]You clearly do not understand how modern warfare is conducted. It isn't a five second exchange that ends in rubble and dust, destroying a city takes a [i]long[/i] time. Artillery bombardment against tall buildings is really ineffective too, the shells hit high up and damage nothing but that single spot on that single building. Several South Korean cities are built in such a way that makes use of tall buildings in this manner, they're basically gigantic shields that take the pounding while counter-battery radar pinpoints the locations of the guns and directs aircraft and artillery to respond in kind.
North Korea has no power projection capability, they may have a massive military but it is [i]strictly[/i] defensive. You're probably wondering why that is, so I'll tell you: waging war outside of your own turf is expensive in more than one way. Their lack of logistical support will mean any DPRK unit will quickly find itself starved of food, ammo, fuel, and other basic necessities it would need to fight. Plus their massive fleet of tanks (shitty tanks by the way) would largely be useless given the terrain and complete vulnerability to air attacks, of which there would be many. Plus the backbone of the DPRK, the infantryman, has absolutely jack shit for equipment and zero body armor aside from a helmet. This, combined with the shattered morale of the average fighting man in Kimmy Jong's military would mean any incursion in South Korea would end in lots of surrenders, desertions, or outright defection. Everyone in charge knows this, so the status quo remains the same; an invasion into North Korea would be a meat grinder and a North Korean invasion would wither and dissolve into nothing.
[QUOTE=G3rman;48107140]No one wants to inherit all of North Korea's problems, not even South Korea. That's why a majority of their unification talks are just for the sake of appearances.[/QUOTE]
Its like West and East Germany but with alot more time and less good things.
FYI East Germany is still behind on west Germany in quite a number of ways, imagine North Korea
I never understood why SK decided to not move the capital away from DMZ / border ...
other countries clearly shown it can be done (Turkey with Ankara)
capital cities can be built from scratch like Brasilia in Brazil
(both were moved away from border inland for security plus modernization reason)
while cities like Dubai prove you can built nearly anything anywhere
let's hope the scientist survives (I bet there are NK top men already on it) and actually can deliver the speech
[QUOTE=Dwarden;48110270]I never understood why SK decided to not move the capital away from DMZ / border ...
other countries clearly shown it can be done (Turkey with Ankara)
capital cities can be built from scratch like Brasilia in Brazil
(both were moved away from border inland for security plus modernization reason)
while cities like Dubai prove you can built nearly anything anywhere
let's hope the scientist survives (I bet there are NK top men already on it) and actually can deliver the speech[/QUOTE]
Brasilia was created because the previous capital was Rio, and resources were getting hoarded by the regions closest to the capital.
Meanwhile, Seoul has existed as the seat of power in Korea for over one thousand years. Sure, you could make Seoul the "traditional" capital, while moving the government somewhere else, but that it's so expensive that it's actually cheaper to just protect Seoul against any ridiculous attack the KPA attempts.
[QUOTE=Dwarden;48110270]I never understood why SK decided to not move the capital away from DMZ / border ...
other countries clearly shown it can be done (Turkey with Ankara)
capital cities can be built from scratch like Brasilia in Brazil
(both were moved away from border inland for security plus modernization reason)
while cities like Dubai prove you can built nearly anything anywhere
let's hope the scientist survives (I bet there are NK top men already on it) and actually can deliver the speech[/QUOTE]
The capital was temporarily moved to Busan after the Korean war ended. If I had to guess, the primary reason they maintained the capital there is because of its historical value and large amounts of landmarks dating back to the Joseon Empire. There is a lot of pride in SK concerning that.
You could say the same thing about North Korea, Pyongyang isn't far from the border either.
[QUOTE=freaka;48107162]Yeah its not like north korea got hundreds of artilleries pointed towards seoul. Same goes for south korea that has hundreds of artilleries pointed towards pyongyang. The countries are still at war with each other and will pound their cities to dust if any side tries to do anything.[/QUOTE]
Not only is Seoul fucking enormous, it's around thirty kilometers past the DMZ at the absolute closest point, and around sixty from Kaesong, the nearest major North Korean city
That's well outside the effective range of the vast majority of NK's gun and rocket artillery, which top out around 15-20km, and the big rocket launchers they actually DO have aren't exactly numerous, nor particularly close by the border, nor inconspicuous
There's going to have to be some serious mobilization before Seoul is under any threat from being reduced to rubble by artillery, which is definitely going to get noticed
Even if they do somehow get enough guns close enough to pose a serious threat, the guns they have are mostly early Cold War Russian surplus, none of which is particularly well suited to leveling a city the size of Seoul, [I]especially[/I] not in a few hours
What you really need if you want to reduce a city to rubble is a proper bomber wing, which I'm not really sure you could call their fleet of ancient MIGs
[QUOTE=G3rman;48110490]The capital was temporarily moved to Busan after the Korean war ended. If I had to guess, the primary reason they maintained the capital there is because of its historical value and large amounts of landmarks dating back to the Joseon Empire. There is a lot of pride in SK concerning that.
You could say the same thing about North Korea, Pyongyang isn't far from the border either.[/QUOTE]
And while I'm at it, Pyongyang is 150 kilometers from the border, I wouldn't call that close
honestly if its only gigabytes, with todays technology he could have it duped and pretty discreetly cloud stored ten times over by the time he traveled from NK to Finland
[QUOTE=kweh;48105957]Crossing the "line" between Sweden and NK is like going from one dimension into a completely different one, isn't it?
Anyway, gonna be morbidly interesting to find out about what they do in there...[/QUOTE]
fun fact embassies have adopted portal technology
[QUOTE=freaka;48107162]Yeah its not like north korea got hundreds of artilleries pointed towards seoul. Same goes for south korea that has hundreds of artilleries pointed towards pyongyang. The countries are still at war with each other and will pound their cities to dust if any side tries to do anything.[/QUOTE]Neither side's artillery can reach the other's capital city from the border, with the exception of some of the Nork's Koksan guns. To say those things lack mobility, however, would be a massive understatement; subsceptible as fuck to counter-battery fire.
NK's main reach is with conventional ballistic missiles, and South Korea has enough of the proper specialised ABM variant (not the duct-tape variant used in the Gulf War) of the Patriot system to severely limit that capability.
Looks like this is a fake news or overexaggeration by south korea. No valid sources of this scientist exists
[url]http://yle.fi/uutiset/um_pohjoiskorealaisen_tiedemiehen_loikkaamisesta_ei_tietoa__turha_ryhtya_spekuloimaan/8125371?origin=rss[/url]
[QUOTE=L33t Pinez;48106958]Because thats inhumane?
Why isnt the world bombed back to the stone age? Why arent all criminals killed?[/QUOTE]
Because the public are a bunch of bleeding heart pussies.
[QUOTE=freaka;48112194]Looks like this is a fake news or overexaggeration by south korea. No valid sources of this scientist exists
[url]http://yle.fi/uutiset/um_pohjoiskorealaisen_tiedemiehen_loikkaamisesta_ei_tietoa__turha_ryhtya_spekuloimaan/8125371?origin=rss[/url][/QUOTE]
Didn't want to say it but I suspected it might be another of these. We here so many lies about NK. Like the feeding to dogs thing. Not saying it didn't happen but people need to be more critical and not believe the first thing they hear which confirms the views they already hold.
[editline]3rd July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;48106591]I somehow doubt they're a kind of super-bloc of ultra evil axis countries that will 100% always help eachother in every situation.
I'm most likely wrong, but I at least like to think that's not the case.[/QUOTE]
I think the only reason china is so protective of North Korea is getting rid of NK would mean someone has to take over.
Either the US put in a puppet and then china has the US on its doorstep - unfavourable outcome
China takes over and is left with a load of starving people - unfavourable outcome
Generals take over/regime change - uncertain outcome would likely be just as bad as the current situation
Conquering NK would be easyish but then the rebuilding and/or guerilla warfare following it would be expensive and long. And as I said above, the political outcome would leave everybody all prickly.
On the subject of North Korea's being completely technology inept, they have some basic linux boxes running from [url]http://175.45.178.179[/url] to [url]http://175.45.178.188[/url]
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;48111286]Neither side's artillery can reach the other's capital city from the border, with the exception of some of the Nork's Koksan guns. To say those things lack mobility, however, would be a massive understatement; subsceptible as fuck to counter-battery fire.
NK's main reach is with conventional ballistic missiles, and South Korea has enough of the proper specialised ABM variant (not the duct-tape variant used in the Gulf War) of the Patriot system to severely limit that capability.[/QUOTE]
you wrong stop thinking WW2 or Korean war artillery ranges ...
hell the artillery range was drastically improved for Iraq-Iran war by simple alteration of projectile to include fins
modern era artillery has nearly double the range of WW2 and that's w/o rocket assisted projectiles (in that case consider it triple)
while yes this means the Capital is outside any normal sub 155mm artillery
now there is the catch in this theory
North Korea fields 170mm artillery with avg range
basic projectile 40km
advanced finned and shaped projectile 50km
base bleed projectiles 50-60km
RAP (rocket assisted projectile) up to 60-70km ... (some were captured in Iraq and tested)
finned and bleed approach is public knowledge and with some engineering anyone can do it)
rocket and ramjet assisted projectiles are quite old concept predating WW2
so probably any country with artillery, rocket-artillery and rocket industry (military wise)
extreme projectile upgrade projects like 100+km ranges for anything from 122mm up are for now possible only by USA, UK, Germany, Chine, Russia, India, Israel ...
which got both research, technological and industrial base to develop, test and manufacture those
now this is just normal gun artillery ranges ...
don't get me start on how improved rocket artillery,
upgrade Grad and you get double default range to 30-45km with new rockets (that's just 120-200mm)
NK systems like M1985 with 240mm had range 40km by default (80km with new ammo)
new M1991 system with 240mm again has firing range 45km by default (90km with new ammo)
(Russians did same see Smerch and Tornado rockets improvements)
NK has tons of FROG launchers with basic range over 70km
and that's just basic artillery and rocket-artillery no huge launchers / missiles involved
now I'm not questioning the state of most of those units,
so let's assume only 50% of those is operational to wartime use and 10% has the advanced ammo
and now here comes the catch, if you can't deliver enough of ordnance to target in first salvos
what you do?
you turn into chemical, thermo-baric, biological or nuclear warhead
now try guess which one is the cheapest ?
[QUOTE=Oicani Gonzales;48115005][I]brazil[/I]?
what the fuck, i've studied brazilian diplomatic relations reasonably extensively and this is the first time i hear of it
what the hell does [I]any[/I] country want to do there anyway[/QUOTE]
They need to be there because their citizens are retarded enough to voluntarily travel there.
[editline]3rd July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillerLUA;48112595]On the subject of North Korea's being completely technology inept, they have some basic linux boxes running from [url]http://175.45.178.179[/url] to [url]http://175.45.178.188[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-chit-chat/1940914-north-korea-internet-offine-3-print.html[/url]
Interesting discussion about some of those IPs. They look vulnerable. Some have 65k ports open. SSH is open on the two IPs linked in the post I'm quoting. Doesn't seem to be true now but when they scanned that IP range, tons of Cisco router SSH/telnet servers were open as were web config pages. Kinda hilarious.
Just saying.
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