Greek PM: Germany should pay us the $200 billion they owe us in WWII reparations - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Killuah;47042814]The problem is that Germany can't just cut the debt since that would mean other countries like Spain and Ireland would also demand a debt cut and that would pretty much make credits meaningless and disable the EU countries using credits as a credits-reassurance, as retarded as it sounds. [editline]30th January 2015[/editline] Basically the Greeks know they can't get their demands so they are being cocky bastards to force our idiotic right-conservative government that rather patches symptoms instead of causes to get into talks and actions that require communication instead of the usual "thanks for buying our tanks here is the credit for it".[/QUOTE] It's not like the former government didn't do anything at all. On the contrary, they enacted every single reform the Troika asked and are now the european nation with the greatest budget surplus. The fact is, it didn't work, it didn't kickstart the economy. On the contrary, it propelled living and economical conditions back to twenty, thirty years ago. So you either haircut (not completely pardon) the debt, or Greece defaults, gets out of the Eurozone and well, after that... Who will have faith in an economic union without fiscal transfers? Or in an Union that humiliates its state members and force them to do the impossible? The credibility of the EU is at its lowest right now. If Greece is not saved, I assure you that eventually the entire project will fail. We've showed that we're unable to decently manage a crisis. Today it's Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Ireland. In 10 years, in 20 years, it might be Germany, Finland, the Netherlands who could need leeway. Who will give it to them?

In other words, they have no other plans to repair their economy.

[QUOTE='[IT] Zodiac;47043644']It's not like the former government didn't do anything at all. On the contrary, they enacted every single reform the Troika asked and are now the european nation with the greatest budget surplus. The fact is, it didn't work, it didn't kickstart the economy. On the contrary, it propelled living and economical conditions back to twenty, thirty years ago. So you either haircut (not completely pardon) the debt, or Greece defaults, gets out of the Eurozone and well, after that... Who will have faith in an economic union without fiscal transfers? Or in an Union that humiliates its state members and force them to do the impossible? The credibility of the EU is at its lowest right now. If Greece is not saved, I assure you that eventually the entire project will fail. We've showed that we're unable to decently manage a crisis. Today it's Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Ireland. In 10 years, in 20 years, it might be Germany, Finland, the Netherlands who could need leeway. Who will give it to them?[/QUOTE] Credibility is more damaged by leting states be all like "lol not paying back", the possible implications of letting a country be like that are worse(because countries like Hungary are watching closely) than letting it down economically. Greece knows that, Germany knows that, the EU knows that. It's all an act they have to carefully play and keep up.

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;47040063]Those Yankee bastards still owe us all the tea they sank during their War for Independence.[/QUOTE] Not to mention all the rent they owe from squatting on our land.

That is probably not going to happen. I am generally on Greece and Syriza's side, though. A select few ideological creditors in Europe have forced Greece to wreck their entire society from the top to the bottom just to get a few emergency loans. It's not about helping their neighbor, or protecting the European economy, it's about seizing the opportunity to forcibly remake another country to suit their own ideology. Greece has been subjected to six years of unrelenting misery, and it's about goddamn time they pushed back hard against the austerity being forced on them by outsiders. Who cares if they [I]technically[/I] did it to themselves? It's been six years. It's time the people of Greece finally stop being made to feel like they live in a third world failed state just because some German bureaucrats drank too much intellectually discredited austerity Kool-Aid.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;47043770]That is probably not going to happen. I am generally on Greece and Syriza's side, though. A select few ideological creditors in Europe have forced Greece to wreck their entire society from the top to the bottom just to get a few emergency loans. It's not about helping their neighbor, or protecting the European economy, it's about seizing the opportunity to forcibly remake another country to suit their own ideology. Greece has been subjected to six years of unrelenting misery, and it's about goddamn time they pushed back hard against the austerity being forced on them by outsiders. Who cares if they [I]technically[/I] did it to themselves? It's been six years. It's time the people of Greece finally stop being made to feel like they live in a third world failed state just because some German bureaucrats drank too much intellectually discredited austerity Kool-Aid.[/QUOTE]Well they shouldn't have let the politicians do it, they brought the whole fucking debt on themselves. One thing I can't understand is why would euro drop much if Greece left?

[QUOTE=Carlton Dance;47043798]Well they shouldn't have let the politicians do it, they brought the whole fucking debt on themselves. One thing I can't understand is why would euro drop much if Greece left?[/QUOTE] I don't think their politicians were giving them much choice at the time... As I understand it, the fear is that if Greece left the Euro, it would shatter the psychological conception that an exit from the Eurozone was impossible, and therefore set off a chain of other countries leaving. As countries leave, the Euro's value as a universal European currency would decline, as would the EU's power to hold itself together. Hence, why Greece isn't completely without leverage. After six years of shit economy, the troika won't be inclined to shoot themselves in the foot and set off an exodus from the Euro.

[QUOTE=The mouse;47040999]Without wanting to derail this thread massively. Germany wasn't the most responsible belligerent for the start of WW1, France had a bigger standing army and put more money into their armed forces than Germany, whilst Russia was mid-way through a massive program of rearmament and modernisation and was the first one to mobilise once the crisis started IIRC. Germany didn't do anything to help ease tensions but it certainly wasn't the source of them. There were many causes of WW1 and Serbia's funding of terrorist activity in Austria-Hungary if not a cause was certainly a catalyst for the start of the war.[/QUOTE] Yeah sorry just going to call you out on a point there. Russia was pretty much pulled into the war by their western allies and then got sorely fucked up because of it. Russo-Japanese war a few years earlier had fucked over any confidence in the military and shown people how out of date and ineffective it was. Yes, they were attempting to recover from that but to call what they were doing "modernisation" was laughable, especially considering that they were already on the brink of another armed revolution from 1905's failed revolution. Production was tumbling because of near constant strikes. Imperial Russia was on the brink of collapse and honestly it isn't surprising that the war pushed them over.

Our votes went to this man. I am hoping for him to lead us to a better economy blinded as I have no other choice (hence why tzipras won the elections, people in desperate times vote for the extreme sides).Everybody is fucked here, my uncle is selling everything and the man has a family.

[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;47044627]Our votes went to this man. I am hoping for him to lead us to a better economy blinded as I have no other choice (hence why tzipras won the elections, people in desperate times vote for the extreme sides).Everybody is fucked here, my uncle is selling everything and the man has a family.[/QUOTE] Have Greeks fled the country much? I would have thought after a few years of this there'd simply be nobody left. With EU passports they can pretty much just pack up and go, right? Or, as easily as anyone can bail on their entire life.

Yes everybody is pretty much leaving the country. Young people like me are trying to get education so they can leave the country.

Well if we went by that way then everyone is so indebted to everyone the world economy exploded

So after telling us they wont pay back our money, and russia condemning the "annexation" of the GDR and wanting it back, greece is now telling us we have to give them even more money? When will this shit stop

[QUOTE=Bradyns;47040088]It's always about the tea with you lot.[/QUOTE] I love brewing a nice hot cup of tea. Then letting it sit and cool next to me before throwin' in a twist of lemon and puttin' ice in it. [sp]Makes plantation work so much easier.[/sp]