Ruling party of Japan wants to revise their American-made constitution; "public order comes before c - Polidicks

[QUOTE=KnowProblem;41911180]Except Rick Scott, the dumbass Governor of Florida who turned down millions in high speed rail money we'd been fighting for years to get because "we don't need federal help". I hate my state.[/QUOTE] I hate it when people put their stupid fucking ideals (i.e. we don't need the feds helping us) over the practical well being of the people. Imagine if politicians would actually just do their fucking jobs for once. Just imagine.

[QUOTE=KnowProblem;41911180]Except Rick Scott, the dumbass Governor of Florida who turned down millions in high speed rail money we'd been fighting for years to get because "we don't need federal help". I hate my state.[/QUOTE] There's probably more to the story than that, I know that here in Wisconsin we were in a similar situation but local politicians shot it down because there wouldn't be any money to maintain it once it was built.

[QUOTE=bubbagamer;41910883]No shit, but that's not our place to say what should and should not be done in a foreign country.[/QUOTE] It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and tried to obliterate us and destroy everything we stand for. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41911302]It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and tried to obliterate us and destroy everything we stand for. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.[/QUOTE] Well they were fighting the Chinese for a number of years, actually. We only got involved after they attacked our fleet in Hawaii, something they only did after we placed an embargo on oil and steel exports to them.

[quote]"One can only be appalled by the lack of historical sense and fixed convictions on the part of top political leaders," Miyazaki wrote in a July editorial put out by his studio’s magazine. "People who have not thought enough should not be messing around with our constitution."[/quote] I'm down with this guy.

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;41910822]70 years of western bullshit are enough of a lesson for japan[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that they became a more democratic country and an even stronger economic power after the post war period.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41913664]I'm pretty sure that they became a more democratic country and an even stronger economic power after the post war period.[/QUOTE] Absolutely, Japan has proven itself to be a moderate great power in the Asia-Pacific. It's great to see they are finally moving towards removing some of these post-war "sanctions" placed on them like Article 9. Obviously the wording they've used here is a little misleading though. Probably should be revised before doing anything. edit: But there pretty much striking out anyway, their Ocean policy in ~2006 was pretty much a precursor to this.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41911302]It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and tried to obliterate us and destroy everything we stand for. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.[/QUOTE] You're right we should make sure they pay us for everything they did and then make sure they never build an army again. Because that hasnt backfired right?

[QUOTE=EnlightenDead;41913840]You're right we should make sure they pay us for everything they did and then make sure they never build an army again. Because that hasnt backfired right?[/QUOTE] sometimes i wish america had a foreign imposed restricting constitution more than japan just sayin~

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41911302]It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and tried to obliterate us and destroy everything we stand for. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.[/QUOTE] Japanese user talking about USA: [QUOTE=frozensoda;41911302]It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and [B]successfully [/B]tried to obliterate us, destroying everything we stood for, making us surrender. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.[/QUOTE]

This is hilarious, they want to free themselves from 'foreign control' while they still beg each day so that the US Navy sits right outdoors so they don't have to pay a dime in military. [editline]21st August 2013[/editline] How come nationalists are always stupid? Seriously, if I wanted to free that country from 'foreign control,' the first thing I would do is find a way to start a god damn military.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;41898751]If you even bothered to listen to the broadcast, they stated that the revised draft keeps the "won't participate in wars" part, meaning they'll still keep the 'can't do anything but defend'.[/QUOTE] Depends on the direct wording - it could mean that they cannot themselves initiate a war or directly participate in one, but they might be able to take part of various SC sanctioned peace missions which they currently at times cannot because they are blocked from those by the constitution. Because their army essentially functions as an extension of their police force.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;41898678]Even if it violates civil rights?[/QUOTE] If America can do it, why not Japan?

[QUOTE=Riutet;41916025]If America can do it, why not Japan?[/QUOTE] In what way does one wrong make another wrong okay?

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;41914263]This is hilarious, they want to free themselves from 'foreign control' while they still beg each day so that the US Navy sits right outdoors so they don't have to pay a dime in military. [editline]21st August 2013[/editline] How come nationalists are always stupid? Seriously, if I wanted to free that country from 'foreign control,' the first thing I would do is find a way to start a god damn military.[/QUOTE] They aren't looking to cut ties or "free themselves" from the United States. They're looking to give themselves more independence over the power of their Self Defense Force. You're kidding yourself if you believe that Japan would give up their alliance with the United States.

Well that's a step from stopping being USA's satellite state

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;41916073]In what way does one wrong make another wrong okay?[/QUOTE] America can do no wrong, therefore violation of civil rights is not wrong. Show a bit of patriotism commie.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41911302]It kind of is when said country joined with one of the most evil forces in history and tried to obliterate us and destroy everything we stand for. We kind of have a right to make sure they don't do that again. Actually a [B][I]legal[/I][/B] right.[/QUOTE] god I hate this kind of political opinion

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41916900]god I hate this kind of political opinion[/QUOTE] I'm not pretending to understand this entire situation, but they attacked us, and we attacked them. They lost the war and now they are paying the price. What is so hard to understand about that. If it had gone the other way and we were the ones trying to get our sovereignty back 70 years later you would be saying the same shit. Also if it were literally ANY other country they would have nuked japan and then forgot they existed, not rebuild them subjectively better than they were before. Japan should feel lucky that it was the US that did it, and not Russia because Russia would have let japan burn for a thousand years before they would offer aid. I wonder what the world would say if the US suddenly stopped paying for literally everything. BTW for the other guy embargo =/= suicide bombers we had every right to use our nuclear armament to bring the war to a hasty end, which it did.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41916988]I'm not pretending to understand this entire situation, but they attacked us, and we attacked them. They lost the war and now they are paying the price. What is so hard to understand about that. If it had gone the other way and we were the ones trying to get our sovereignty back 70 years later you would be saying the same shit. [/QUOTE] The US doesn't hold sovereignty over Japan. And that was 70 years ago. All of the instigators of that war are long dead. This is a new, innocent generation. Should we put you in prison because of a crime your grandfather did?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;41917013]The US doesn't hold sovereignty over Japan. And that was 70 years ago. All of the instigators of that war are long dead. This is a new, innocent generation. Should we put you in prison because of a crime your grandfather did?[/QUOTE] I don't see how this equates to prison. There were treaties drawn up after the war nothing that is happening is new. Everyone knew that this is how it would be.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;41916988] Japan should feel lucky that it was the US that did it, and not Russia because Russia would have let japan burn for a thousand years before they would offer aid.[/QUOTE] I don't know that this would be entirely true. I suspect the USSR would be more interested in adding Japan to the Union. Japan would be a pretty useful staging area for any operations in the Pacific, and would be a useful holding to make sure China would stay in line with Soviet interests. I would think the Soviet Union would be more interested in better control of the far east than letting a valuable resource uselessly burn for a thousand years. They'd probably have come up with a few five year plans for Japan shortly after the war if they had been the ones to defeat them.

[QUOTE=hehe;41916079]They aren't looking to cut ties or "free themselves" from the United States. They're looking to give themselves more independence over the power of their Self Defense Force. You're kidding yourself if you believe that Japan would give up their alliance with the United States.[/QUOTE] They do have independence over it. To the tune of almost 56 billion dollars a year, in fact. The Self-Defense Forces are not controlled by the US, the only thing Article 9 actually prevents Japan from doing is using the SDF to attack another country belligerently. International operations have been condoned (mainly relief and humanitarian efforts) and if Japan were ever attacked would function identical to any other modern military. Please stop saying this rubbish about how Japan is trying to 'regain sovereignty', they've had it since 1952. The majority of people in Japan don't even support scrapping Article 9. Something like 54% of people want to see some change to the parliamentary system and the constitution, but only 38% want to see Article 9 gone. If you need a source for that figure, here it is: [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323372504578464622440869226.html[/url] [quote]Among the various polls in local media Friday, the Nikkei newspaper found that 56% said they thought the constitution should be changed. The daily said 28% of respondents didn't think it should be changed, marking the first time in eight years that this figure has dropped below 30%. Another poll by the Mainichi Shimbun showed similar sentiment among the public, with 60% supporting constitutional overhaul and 32% opposed. The gap has widened since the Nikkei posed the same question in April 2012, when 53% of those polled supported a revision and 33% were opposed. [B]But the new poll results don't necessarily demonstrate support for the prime minister's proposals.[/B] While Mr. Abe has in recent days talked more openly about changing Article 9 regarding the military, the majority of respondents to the Nikkei survey said they were looking at different types of overhauls. [B]It said 54% of respondents wanted to see the parliamentary system, built on two chambers, changed, while just 38% said Article 9 should be rewritten.[/B] Mr. Abe has said he wants to focus on changing Article 96 of the constitution, which states that support from more than two-thirds of both upper and lower houses is necessary to hold a public referendum asking for proposed constitutional changes.[/quote]

[QUOTE=darkrei9n;41899331]News flash, every government will violate your rights in wartime. In the United States Habeas Corpus has been suspended. During the red scare the right to freedom of speech was also restricted. Not to mention internment camps during WW2.[/QUOTE] You disappoint me Joseph McCarthy. And you mean the second Red Scare?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41916900]god I hate this kind of political opinion[/QUOTE] Read any posts frozensoda has made, 90% of them are shit posts

oh fuck its the ruling party now? is there something in the water or something? we're approaching the same level of crap that happened before ww2. mind you we aren't that bad off but it seems like every goverment today wants to move away from american values because americans are mean and want to destroy the world and undermine our people's cultural values (we totally don't btw) [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] what do we need to do now start detonating nuclear bombs to show the world that we don't mean any harm? [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] seems like when we're not doing senseless dickwaving people start to get all anti-american

While I understand completely the desire to be an independent entity that isn't constrained by rules drummed up by a foreign power, I don't understand why you would want to change those rules if they're [I]good.[/I] If it were a law that made Japan specifically accountable to the US or otherwise bound them to our governments wishes, I would wholeheartedly support revoking it. But a law that prohibits military action is the sort of thing that more countries could do with to be entirely honest. It allows them to ignore the practically useless money sink that is the military industrial complex. At the end of the day I wish Japan would realize just how valuable it is as a technological power. If their government focused more on pushing that strength while intelligently managing its infrastructure instead of diverting public discontent onto a nationalist scapegoat then I imagine they'd get a lot more accomplished not only for themselves but for the entire international community.

i think the problem is though, theres a big neighbor across the sea that keeps dickwaving, and there's a lot of over-compensating old men in power in japan who can only take so much dickwaving

You know it's sad when US pretty much beats most countries civil rights laws.