Dildos descend on UT Austin in 'Cocks Not Glocks' protest of guns on campus - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RB33;50950852]If you're telling me that 2 people with guns who have met each other never have fired upon each other, then this discussion is over. It should be obvious such a thing must have happened, you don't always have guns to not use them.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking kidding me? Your little fantasy about otherwise law abiding concealed-carry holders getting in shootouts randomly in the street just for the hell of it has never happened. It has never happened. Ever. That is an invented scenario you whisked out of your asshole. You don't get to move the goalposts like that [I]after[/I] I respond to it.

[QUOTE=catbarf;50951021] Huh? There's no such thing, to my knowledge, as an open carry license. Open carry is generally either legal to everyone or illegal, you get a permit to concealed carry. I've never heard of a mass shooting committed by an open or concealed carrier, I'd be genuinely curious if you have a link. [/QUOTE] i thought there was a concealed carry permit? i guess it varies by state it's difficult to find anything that isn't incredibly politicized, but apparently the naval yard shooter had a concealed carry permit

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50951085]i thought there was a concealed carry permit? i guess it varies by state it's difficult to find anything that isn't incredibly politicized, but apparently the naval yard shooter had a concealed carry permit[/QUOTE] Concealed carry and open carry are two different things. No such thing as an open carry permit. Open carry is literally the open carry of a pistol, and states either consider that [I]your god given right god bless america[/I] or [I]totally horrid and illegal you're going to jail bitch[/I], even if they allow concealed carry with or without a permit. [url]http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/[/url] I found this website which has a plainly anti-gun slant but can only come up with 29 cases of this from 2007 on. It's clear that most states can make improvements to their system, but if we go by the bare minimum estimate for defensive gun uses in the United States, there's been 720,000 defensive gun uses in the US in the same time frame presented by this website. If 29 concealed carriers snapping was just the way it was gonna be, I think I could live with that next to how many people have used guns to save their own lives or others'. There can and certainly should be improvements made to the system, but I think it's clear that it's, overall, a good thing.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50951093]Concealed carry and open carry are two different things. No such thing as an open carry permit. Open carry is literally the open carry of a pistol, and states either consider that [I]your god given right god bless america[/I] or [I]totally horrid and illegal you're going to jail bitch[/I], even if they allow concealed carry with or without a permit.[/QUOTE] seems bloody confusing that there's such great differences in the law, to someone who comes from a country who's "state" differences amount to "the council is called something different and also our sign has eco friendly on it!!!" but then again your states are the size of ireland so it makes sense

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50951127]seems bloody confusing that there's such great differences in the law, to someone who comes from a country who's "state" differences amount to "the council is called something different and also our sign has eco friendly on it!!!" but then again your states are the size of ireland so it makes sense[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's complicated. You can end up with a felony charge in one state for something that's perfectly legal right over the border. There's a casino somewhere in Texas which is built right on the border between Texas and New Mexico. Gambling is illegal in Texas, so the casino floor is on the New Mexico side, but it's all in the same building.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50951127]seems bloody confusing that there's such great differences in the law, to someone who comes from a country who's "state" differences amount to "the council is called something different and also our sign has eco friendly on it!!!" but then again your states are the size of ireland so it makes sense[/QUOTE] Do a search for 'concealed carry reciprocity' if you want to really make your head spin. A lot of us gun owners could accept additional restrictions like mandatory background checks if it simultaneously came with a sensible nation-wide concealed carry system, because right now it's a confusing mess of contradictory state laws.

Texas has a Lisence To Carry which is for both concealed and open carry of handguns. Without it you can't carry handguns in public. You don't need a permit to open carry rifles or keep guns locked in your car. [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50951127]but then again your states are the size of ireland so it makes sense[/QUOTE] Texas wouldn't fit on Europe. It's bigger than Germany. I think people forget how much rural space there is here. It takes 12 hours to drive across the state.(non stop)

[QUOTE=catbarf;50951137]Do a search for 'concealed carry reciprocity' if you want to really make your head spin. A lot of us gun owners could accept additional restrictions like mandatory background checks if it simultaneously came with a sensible nation-wide concealed carry system, because right now it's a confusing mess of contradictory state laws.[/QUOTE] Gun laws in general need to be re-written to be less retarded before gun owners will budge on new restrictions, even if they're logical. For those unaware, under the current set of laws, the ATF was able to declare a shoe string a machine gun when stored near an M1 type rifle. That is - the shoe string itself, not the rifle. The whole system needs a rewrite and since firearms are a Constitutionally guaranteed right the whole thing should be purely federal, not up to the states. But we can't trust the government to do that without fucking us over. The ATF has the power to arbitrarily ban any type of weapon it wants without "due process", so to speak, making owners of that weapon felons. There are no checks or balances on the ATF. It can and does do whatever it pleases. Machine guns have never been banned by any federal law, but the ATF decided to enact a de facto ban by not allowing new machine guns to be registered. It did this entirely internally. I have an antique weapon which currently, technically, violates NFA of 1934. But the ATF declared it an exception because, as a rare antique, it's not likely to be used in crime. If you ask me, that precedent should exclude other rare antiques and not just this one - namely the wide variety of open bolt machine guns that became iconic during the 1930s/40s like the Thompson or MP-40. (These guns are illegal even if they have been converted to semi-automatic because they operate from an open bolt, which is a mechanical principle the ATF has decided is inherently a machine gun even if it isn't.) The problem is they can reverse that decision whenever they want, making me a felon - and they don't even have to inform me they've done it. If I had to summarize American gun laws in two words, I'd say "red tape". If I could use three, I'd say "fucking red tape". I compared it to shitty DRM a while back. None of this bullshit prevents someone who wants one from getting an illegal automatic, or a felon from getting a gun in general, or anything. Loons can more or less get their hands on whatever kind of hardware they want, but if I dare put a Russian-made magazine in a 922(r) compliant AK, I go to jail, because that makes it more foreign-made than the ATF considers acceptable. It only causes headaches for the people who are trying to follow the law. By the way, speaking of 922(r) - that's so obviously bullshit I can't even think of the word to describe it. Building a new gun? Don't use foreign parts, or you'll go to jail! Why? Because! Buy American! Freedom!! Under a government which is already abusing us, how can we trust them with [I]more[/I] power? It doesn't take an idiot to see that a rewrite of the system will just be an updated version of the same old broken system which allows them to consolidate power and run without checks and balances. If it was gonna be better, we wouldn't be dealing with this shit to begin with.

This discussion isn't obviously going anywhere. So I will make one last reply trying to explain what I meant. [QUOTE=Alice3173;50950939]Again, as AaronM202 kept requesting, show proof that these concerns are valid. You keep talking about how it's going to happen yet you cannot back up your claims. Thus your claims are completely invalid.[/QUOTE] Without proof of it never happening, i'm will personally be unconvinced of it. As much as you probably are of it not being a problem. [QUOTE=catbarf;50951021]Oh for fuck's sake, that is [B]bullshit[/B]. I explicitly said that this isn't the reality of the US, and you are the one saying Americans have no reason to concealed carry and should just trust the police. So, what, you're admitting your entire argument is pointless?[/QUOTE] Does what you say really apply to all of the US, are you really sure of that? No exceptions? I see no reason for Americans to regularly carry guns if you're not in a crime-ridden area or far-away from any police. [QUOTE]You can't say 'you have no reason to concealed carry and it will only make things worse just trust the police' and then I point out that the police in the US [I]can't be trusted[/I] try to say 'oh I just mean in the hypothetical case that you have a functioning police force but isn't reality because I'm just here to intellectually masturbate over my opinions'.[/QUOTE] I assume at least sometimes your police can be trusted, so you don't need to be carrying a gun all the time. It's not ideal but it's hardly an anarchy where people really need to be armed. America is not at that point yet and hopefully will not be. [QUOTE]Yes, they carried guns, and it wasn't enough of a societal problem to ban concealed carry. The need for permits arose as a response to bootleggers and gangsters, not ordinary civilians getting in frenetic shootouts because they saw other concealed carriers.[/QUOTE] You seem to misunderstood me, I probably wasn't clear. I was talking about carrying guns in public in general, not only concealed carriers. I disagree with the need to carry a gun, concealed or not. If the belief of arming oneself become widespread, bad people with carry them as well, those are not as likely to restrain themselves, that will be a problem. Denying that is the same as denying bad people could do anything wrong. There is always a risk. No matter how small. [QUOTE]You have still given [I]no evidence whatsoever[/I] that this is a legitimate concern, just empty assertions of oh yeah this will totally happen guys.[/QUOTE] I'm not taking chances, if you are going to trust everyone carrying a gun. That's your choice. [QUOTE=Grenadiac;50951031]Are you fucking kidding me? Your little fantasy about otherwise law abiding concealed-carry holders getting in shootouts randomly in the street just for the hell of it has never happened. It has never happened. Ever. That is an invented scenario you whisked out of your asshole. You don't get to move the goalposts like that [I]after[/I] I respond to it.[/QUOTE] See above, it's not only about law-abiding responsible gun owners. It's about people arming themselves in public. You shouldn't expect that if the number increases, that everyone will indeed follow the law. This also apply to concealed gun carriers, they are not always going to be perfect either. Sorry for being unclear but I seriously interpreted your reply as I replied to you. Thanks for the discussion, I end with that I would not feel safe with gun wielding people (who are not police) on a campus or school. Those places really should be gun-free.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952468]Thanks for the discussion, I end with that I would not feel safe with gun wielding people (who are not police) on a campus or school. Those places really should be gun-free.[/QUOTE] This is the crux of your problem. You don't feel safe because you are ignorant. That's understandable. Ignorance breeds fear. It's still not a valid excuse. All of your arguments have stemmed from that ignorance, right down to your paranoia over utility knives. Educate yourself instead of threadshitting with baseless speculation and moronic moral arguments.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50952511]This is the crux of your problem. You don't feel safe because you are ignorant. That's understandable. Ignorance breeds fear. It's still not a valid excuse. All of your arguments have stemmed from that ignorance, right down to your paranoia over utility knives. Educate yourself instead of threadshitting with baseless speculation and moronic moral arguments.[/QUOTE] I disagree with my stance being less ignorant than that people should arm themselves because it is going to protect them. Call me ignorant but I don't put my trust into guns. What is really causing fear is people being armed, more armed people doesn't help that. You're going to disagree and that's fine. I'm from a different culture and we don't see guns as a solution. I would prefer you seeing it the same way but that isn't happening.

as i said previously, a gun-free campus is only as gun-free as the security makes it. signs have only ever stopped law-abiding people.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952548]I disagree with my stance being less ignorant than that people should arm themselves because it is going to protect them. Call me ignorant but I don't put my trust into guns. What is really causing fear is people being armed, more armed people doesn't help that. You're going to disagree and that's fine. I'm from a different culture and we don't see guns as a solution. I would prefer you seeing it the same way but that isn't happening.[/QUOTE] Show me where I said people [I]should[/I] arm themselves. You can't because I never said it. Nor can you show me where I've explicitly said that guns are 'the' solution because I never said that either. You don't have to want to arm people to see that arbitrarily banning things won't accomplish much, if anything. It's not a binary situation, and right now you are strawmanning with a false dichotomy as if those are the only two possible options. The reality of the situation is not clear cut black and white, and pretending like it is only highlights how misinformed you are on the topic. You are afraid of people being armed because you don't understand things. If you actually understood the contexts, you wouldn't be afraid of knives when "assault flashlights" exist. You wouldn't give a shit about people legally carrying concealed weapons because they statistically are not the ones committing crimes. That is measurable empirical fact, and you have consistently failed to understand that, or chose to deliberately misrepresent it. Either way that's shitposting.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952468]Without proof of it never happening, i'm will personally be unconvinced of it. As much as you probably are of it not being a problem.[/QUOTE] This is your entire issue. You are making an assumption of what would happen and you're ignoring the fact there's zero evidence to back up that view rather than acknowledging that your assumption appears to be incorrect. I seriously don't understand how you can be this dense about it. It's not a complicated idea in the least bit.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50952665]Show me where I said people [I]should[/I] arm themselves. You can't because I never said it. Nor can you show me where I've explicitly said that guns are 'the' solution because I never said that either. You don't have to want to arm people to see that arbitrarily banning things won't accomplish much, if anything. It's not a binary situation, and right now you are strawmanning with a false dichotomy as if those are the only two possible options. The reality of the situation is not clear cut black and white, and pretending like it is only highlights how misinformed you are on the topic. You are afraid of people being armed because you don't understand things. If you actually understood the contexts, you wouldn't be afraid of knives when "assault flashlights" exist. You wouldn't give a shit about people legally carrying concealed weapons because they statistically are not the ones committing crimes. That is measurable empirical fact, and you have consistently failed to understand that, or chose to deliberately misrepresent it. Either way that's shitposting.[/QUOTE] You might have not said it but someone made the point that carrying a gun makes you safer. That is what i've argued against. Not directed at you, just to the thread in general. People shouldn't be carrying dangerous weapons that have no reasonable use of in a safe society. Why should you carry knives? Why carry a gun if there would be no need? Should I understand that guns are not something to afraid of when they are built to be able to kill people? If it comes to there being no need for carrying a gun, you are just needlessly scaring people by carrying it. Leave it at home. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Alice3173;50952712]This is your entire issue. You are making an assumption of what would happen and you're ignoring the fact there's zero evidence to back up that view rather than acknowledging that your assumption appears to be incorrect. I seriously don't understand how you can be this dense about it. It's not a complicated idea in the least bit.[/QUOTE] While you people are dense about that it could ever be a problem. It's one thing to worry needlessly about something, ignoring something that could be dangerous is another. It's fully possible for at any time that it could become a problem but rather you ignore the possibility of that happening. That's the last thing I will say now.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952769]While you people are dense about that it could ever be a problem. It's one thing to worry needlessly about something, ignoring something that could be dangerous is another. It's fully possible for at any time that it could become a problem but rather you ignore the possibility of that happening. That's the last thing I will say now.[/QUOTE] Concealed and open carry has been legal in the United States for DECADES, if not more than a century. If that much time has passed and there is zero evidence backing up your view then your view is wrong, plain and simple. If you cannot acknowledge this fact you are dense at best and delusional at worst. (Or trolling but I'm not going to assume you're a troll at this point in time.)

I carry both a knife and a gun. The knife is a utility device which I use for both work and hobbies, so it's convenient to have on me. The gun is something I already own and have a right to carry so I might as well [I]just in case[/I]. This isn't a matter of paranoia or me [I]expecting[/I] to need it. It's a matter of I can - so why shouldn't I? Lots of people with the same mindset have ended up being able to defend themselves or others thanks to their foresight. I don't know how you can say there's no reasonable use for a self defense weapon when there are, again, at the very minimum, 80,000 defensive gun uses per year, with some estimates reaching into the millions. You are ignoring facts that not only [I]don't[/I] support your argument, but dismantle it completely. In the face of these facts, you are continuing to posit your baseless, empty argument. That means your argument sucks. There are valid arguments in favor of gun control, but yours isn't one of them. You don't like guns? Fine, that's a valid position. But get a new argument.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952769]You might have not said it but someone made the point that carrying a gun makes you safer. That is what i've argued against. Not directed at you, just to the thread in general. People shouldn't be carrying dangerous weapons that have no reasonable use of in a safe society. Why should you carry knives? Why carry a gun if there would be no need? Should I understand that guns are not something to afraid of when they are built to be able to kill people? If it comes to there being no need for carrying a gun, you are just needlessly scaring people by carrying it. Leave it at home.[/QUOTE] Your entire argument hinges on that "safe society" part. Spend one night in Detroit and tell me how you feel about American societies. Hell, I don't even want to be caught in downtown Denver after dark without at least my pocketknife. I mean yeah we won't need CCW's in societies where everyone can hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" but that's just not how it is right now.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952769]People shouldn't be carrying dangerous weapons that have no reasonable use of in a safe society. Why should you carry knives? Why carry a gun if there would be no need? Should I understand that guns are not something to afraid of when they are built to be able to kill people? If it comes to there being no need for carrying a gun, you are just needlessly scaring people by carrying it. Leave it at home.[/QUOTE] Knives are tools first and foremost. Most 'combat' style knives are already banned, or heavily restricted. They are incredibly useful for little everyday things. Maybe you don't personally [I]need[/I] one, but I don't [i]need[/i] it either. It's just useful to have. I don't I find it extremely difficult to believe that you could not find a few practical uses for one. This isn't even factoring in items like machetes, which are designed for clearing underbrush or other hack and slash purposes, and which can easily seriously maim or kill people. Nor does it consider numerous kitchen items. Plenty of kitchen knives are extremely dangerous, moreso than most pocket knives. Do you advocate banning them as well? The fact that you refuse to even consider this says a great deal about how out of touch with reality you are. You are scared of it, so it should be banned. This is not the thought process of someone who is thinking rationally. As for the guns, so what? You still have to prove that they are statistically detrimental when carried legally before you can rationally advocate banning them; something you have completely and utterly failed to do, because the statistics clearly show the exact opposite. The fact that you are uncomfortable with them is a personal problem, and any paranoia around that fact is in conflict with the reality of the situation. Simply put you are some combination of paranoid and ignorant.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;50952830]Concealed and open carry has been legal in the United States for DECADES, if not more than a century. If that much time has passed and there is zero evidence backing up your view then your view is wrong, plain and simple. If you cannot acknowledge this fact you are dense at best and delusional at worst. (Or trolling but I'm not going to assume you're a troll at this point in time.)[/QUOTE] If you can't understand that more people doing it will inevitable lead to also bad people doing it and that bad people can do bad things. Then I don't know if there is anymore I can say. Trust everyone you meet that has a gun, if you rather prefer that.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952919]If you can't understand that more people doing it will inevitable lead to also bad people doing it and that bad people can do bad things. Then I don't know if there is anymore I can say. Trust everyone you meet that has a gun, if you rather prefer that.[/QUOTE] So good people passing federal background checks and being approved by the state after training and months of copious evaluation is going to lead to bad people somehow enrolling in the same process, yet managing to bypass these safeguards via some kind of magical force? Shit... Or do we just think this is some new Wild West movie, and everyone is going to be wearing two holsters walking down the streets, no questions asked? Are you even aware of the process that you are arguing against?

[QUOTE=RB33;50952919]If you can't understand that more people doing it will inevitable lead to also bad people doing it and that bad people can do bad things. Then I don't know if there is anymore I can say. Trust everyone you meet that has a gun, if you rather prefer that.[/QUOTE] Yes, people over time will start abusing it more and more. As has happened over time, right? Oh wait. That hasn't happened at all. You seem to be making a completely false assumption here that more people doing it equates to looser restrictions and required training. Which is flat out wrong. Feel free to disagree with reality as much as you want but don't go pretending you're the one who's right when you're utterly and unambiguously wrong.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50952945]So good people passing federal background checks and being approved by the state after training and months of copious evaluation is going to lead to bad people somehow enrolling in the same process, yet managing to bypass these safeguards via some kind of magical force? Shit...[/QUOTE] I was talking about people carrying guns in public in general, it isn't a solution to the problems you have.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952919]If you can't understand that more people doing it will inevitable lead to also bad people doing it and that bad people can do bad things.[/QUOTE] So besides the broken sentence structure here. Do you actually believe that banning CCW actually stops people from carrying illegally? Yes or No.

RB33, stop retreating to your magical world where CCW holders get into gunfights with eachother regularly.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952959]I was talking about people carrying guns in public in general, it isn't a solution to the problems you have.[/QUOTE] But banning guns somehow is? When there's already a huge black market for them? I mean seriously. This is just outright delusional.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50952962]So besides the broken sentence structure here. Do you actually believe that banning CCW actually stops people from carrying illegally? Yes or No.[/QUOTE] No but that is a job for the police to prevent, not your average gun carrying civilian. Carrying guns doesn't replace the police. Improve the police instead, as in Europe instead of thinking that walking outside armed is a good alternative.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952959]I was talking about people carrying guns in public in general, it isn't a solution to the problems you have.[/QUOTE] No one is marketing it as a viable solution. Carrying a gun doesn't make you a hero. It's being thought of as a prevention when all other measures fail, because you can't call 911 while some guy is scoping you on the street and have cops appear instantly, or whatever the case may be. No one carrying a gun wants to ever use their gun. If they do, they are carrying for the wrong reasons. But, you have almost completely divorced from your previous argument, so that is a plus. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;50952978]No but that is a job for the police to prevent, not your average gun carrying civilian.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, what the fuck do you think citizens with state-issued licenses to carry are? They don't prevent anything. They carry for their own protection, not to enforce laws in vigilante justice. You have a gross misunderstanding of this entire topic and process. You need to stop arguing and educate yourself on the qualifications and requirements needed to even be eligible for your fictional shootouts.

[QUOTE=RB33;50952978]No but that is a job for the police to prevent, not your average gun carrying civilian.[/QUOTE] Dear diary, Today I learned that the police are omnipotent and can respond instantaneously to any crime, particularly ones where my life is in danger. :downs:

I'm done now. You don't agree with me, think i'm ignorant and whatever else. Nothing will come out of this, so let's end it. I said my points, that's enough. I was only trying to make you see a different perspective.