Tim Sweeney thinks Microsoft will make Steam "progressively worse" with Windows 10 patches - Polidicks

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50777462]I wonder if there'll ever be a Linux based OS which competes with Windows. Ubuntu is #1 right now, but the UI is terrible. I'm glad that there are more and more games every day for Linux. Really, games are the only area in which windows is ahead of Linux right now[/QUOTE] I try to stay optimistic that in the future developers, especially triple a would add support for linux in their games, and update their existing ones, So that I can completely move over to linux. The lack of games which is the majority that I do is really off putting.

Considering how Microsoft already cut support for Play Anywhere, it seems they aren't going to do anything spooky as what Tim Sweeney thinks. Epic Games always try to be the forefront of gamers and love rolling in conspiracy theories about how big bad companies are going to ruin PC Gaming. This has never been the case and its' getting really old to seeing this dumb nonsense again.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50777462]I wonder if there'll ever be a Linux based OS which competes with Windows. Ubuntu is #1 right now, but the UI is terrible. I'm glad that there are more and more games every day for Linux. Really, games are the only area in which windows is ahead of Linux right now[/QUOTE]Same here; the only thing I do on Windows is gaming. I do everything else on Linux; I spend most of my time on Linux now, since I haven't had that much time to play games, anyway. By the way, Linux Mint is basically Ubuntu with a better looking UI, and it's more stable and it's much faster. So, if you're looking for a good UI, try Mint. I am also very happy that so many games are being released on Linux. If there is a point in the future where the majority of games run on Linux, I will completely abandon Windows. This is something that's slowly becoming a reality, especially in the past two years.

MS phasing out Win32 apps would be a gun to the head, it's like saying MacOS will only allow apps from the app store and they'll start phasing out .dmg

Companies are still using Windows 98 and prior. Any suggestion that windows will fade out win32 program support and lose the "everything supports us" edge over mac and linux is asinine

[QUOTE=eirexe;50777076]It's hard to say, Apple does that with the iDevices.[/QUOTE] So does MS but it's allowed because they're mobile operating systems that never had any other way to get apps apart from the store. From memory, the original iPhone came with the standard bloatware and there was no official devkit for it until Jobs released one year later (?) with the official portal being the app store you couldn't google "iphone programmes" and download one from safari, it would of been absolutely impossible at the time. This is different because MS, Mac and Linux have always had their files distributed in many ways like CD's, online and through digital storage devices

The hatred for centralized stores is kind of weird for someone from Linux. When you download something on Linux, getting it off the web is the LAST thing you're supposed to do. You try to get it essentially through your app store and if that fails you THEN go look online, because otherwise it doesn't integrate well with your system, has a higher chance to be a malicious download, and just is shit. Though, the difference is freedom I suppose, Linux distros generally aren't out to extract $$$ out of their customers, and even ones that are paid like red hat let you add extra repos. [QUOTE=proboardslol;50777462]I wonder if there'll ever be a Linux based OS which competes with Windows. Ubuntu is #1 right now, but the UI is terrible. I'm glad that there are more and more games every day for Linux. Really, games are the only area in which windows is ahead of Linux right now[/QUOTE] I'd look up desktop environments and see which one looks good to you aesthetically, you can get pretty much any desktop environment on any distribution. Or if thy neckbeard floweth, a window manager that you spend hours tweaking to make it look great. I don't think any DE gets as much hate as Ubuntu's unity.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50777727]MS phasing out Win32 apps would be a gun to the head, it's like saying MacOS will only allow apps from the app store and they'll start phasing out .dmg[/QUOTE] They released an article a month ago regarding enterprise and how that can effectively and effeciently upgrade workstations to windows 10, monitoring application stability etc. one of their statements were as follows [quote]We haven’t made any significant changes to the existing Win32 APIs, which helps ensure desktop app compatibility (minimal changes mean minimal compatibility risk).[/quote] as many have mentioned, Microsoft cares about the enterprise versions of the operating system and corporations a lot more as that's their primary source of income. If they want to entice users to use newer versions of the operating system, they need to ensure compatibility with each of the corporations current needs. And with 10 being [i]the last[/i] version of windows [i]apparently[/i] (small changes every so often, big updates 3-5 years... OSX), I assume compatibility would be a primary focus point for each update so that users can remain confident that their solutions will continue to work regardless of what version of windows they run [editline]27th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;50777747]The hatred for centralized stores is kind of weird for someone from Linux. When you download something on Linux, getting it off the web is the LAST thing you're supposed to do. You try to get it essentially through your app store and if that fails you THEN go look online, because otherwise it doesn't integrate well with your system, has a higher chance to be a malicious download, and just is shit. Though, the difference is freedom I suppose, Linux distros generally aren't out to extract $$$ out of their customers, and even ones that are paid like red hat let you add extra repos.[/quote] Sounds written up weird. I assume you're talking about looking for packages off apt-get or whatever package manager people like to use. This only works if you're given root permissions, so most of the software I get when I'm in a jailed environment is downloading the source code of the net and compiling it myself (make/install). Nothing wrong with package managers [t]http://jesusfuck.me/di/Q3YZ/16-07-27-01-42-03-administrator-windows-powershell.png[/t]

Man if Windows had a linux system, the world would be a better place.

If they microsoft removes win32 capability or makes it 100% garbage Steam will update to have 64 bit support, it's silly to think that the biggest pc gaming platform will just let themselves die for no reason.

[QUOTE=FezianEmperor;50777822]Man if Windows had a linux system, the world would be a better place.[/QUOTE] ubuntu? [img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/5YEX/16-07-27-02-04-34.gif[/img] cbf installing screenfetch to be honest

[QUOTE=eirexe;50777058]UWP is terrible, it's a closed platform in a system that has always had a level of openness, it would mean the death of a lot of things we take for granted and would be a step backwards, UWP apps as far as I know cannot be distributed in any other way that is not the windows store, which means that if win32 is phased out the Microsoft will officially have a monopoly. I have other concerns with UWP, like the fact that you can't look at the programs files easily, let alone modify them. In fact, i'm going to go as far to say that it would be the death of gaming on Windows, because one of the cornerstones of gaming on PC is the fact that you can tweak stuff easily, which the UWP does not facilitate.[/QUOTE] UWPs can be downloaded from third party sites, and by default you can install them on your system. The Store isn't currently required, though of course that's basically the only way you can get them right now.

[QUOTE=Reflex F.N.;50777721]Same here; the only thing I do on Windows is gaming. I do everything else on Linux; I spend most of my time on Linux now, since I haven't had that much time to play games, anyway. By the way, Linux Mint is basically Ubuntu with a better looking UI, and it's more stable and it's much faster. So, if you're looking for a good UI, try Mint. I am also very happy that so many games are being released on Linux. If there is a point in the future where the majority of games run on Linux, I will completely abandon Windows. This is something that's slowly becoming a reality, especially in the past two years.[/QUOTE] I use Ubuntu but with Subtle DE installed. I think Unity has set back the Ubuntu image by a lot. If they want to be seen as a competitor to a desktop OS like OSX or Windows, they should either use gnome or XFCE. but currently Ubuntu looks like a tablet OS

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50777462]I wonder if there'll ever be a Linux based OS which competes with Windows. Ubuntu is #1 right now, but the UI is terrible. I'm glad that there are more and more games every day for Linux. Really, games are the only area in which windows is ahead of Linux right now[/QUOTE] if there is package for game developers as DirectX with all the goodies and easy routes and documentation w/o mess ... then it may happen ... until then Linux is still obscure platform with hard to impress average joe (no matter how much it improved)

i was expecting this thread to be full of "good, fuck valve and fuck steam. i want to see it and the employees rot in the ground" like most steam-related threads glad to see that's not the case

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;50776956]Does it really seem [I]that[/I] far fetched?[/QUOTE] Yes. [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=eirexe;50777058]UWP is terrible, it's a closed platform in a system that has always had a level of openness, it would mean the death of a lot of things we take for granted and would be a step backwards, UWP apps as far as I know cannot be distributed in any other way that is not the windows store, which means that if win32 is phased out the Microsoft will officially have a monopoly. I have other concerns with UWP, like the fact that you can't look at the programs files easily, let alone modify them. In fact, i'm going to go as far to say that it would be the death of gaming on Windows, because one of the cornerstones of gaming on PC is the fact that you can tweak stuff easily, which the UWP does not facilitate.[/QUOTE] Are these things innate to the standard of UWP and cannot be changed at all ever?

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50778095]if there is package for game developers as DirectX with all the goodies and easy routes and documentation w/o mess ... then it may happen ... until then Linux is still obscure platform with hard to impress average joe (no matter how much it improved)[/QUOTE] Afaik opengl is the standard for non-windows.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50777839]If they microsoft removes win32 capability or makes it 100% garbage Steam will update to have 64 bit support, it's silly to think that the biggest pc gaming platform will just let themselves die for no reason.[/QUOTE] [B]In this case[/B] win32 have nothing to do with 32 or 64 bit. It's just one of the names people use when they talk about WinAPI.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50777839]If they microsoft removes win32 capability or makes it 100% garbage Steam will update to have 64 bit support, it's silly to think that the biggest pc gaming platform will just let themselves die for no reason.[/QUOTE] W32 has little to do with the 32/64 bit divide. It's a holdover from when we moved to 32-bit standards. It has support for 64-bit within it. Steam would just need to move to whatever the new platforms is. UWP, or whatever succeeds W32 for non UWP apps.

[QUOTE=343N;50776995]arent microsoft themselves going to release products on steam?\ phil spencer said so himself sweeny how about you go sween into a corner and stay there[/QUOTE] Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Google it. [QUOTE=lNloruzenchi;50777037]Good. [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] If you can't keep your program compatible with the latest OS, it isn't worth keeping alive.[/QUOTE] The business sector is Microsoft's biggest money maker and phasing out Win32 in a world where legacy and stability is absolutely essential would be like cutting off your own head.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50777727]MS phasing out Win32 apps would be a gun to the head, it's like saying MacOS will only allow apps from the app store and they'll start phasing out .dmg[/QUOTE] :v: You're not gonna believe what they're doing in Sierra, they've removed the ability to run unsigned apps :dogwow:

Microsoft won't cut off win32 for a while because of the volume of business that use it

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50778590]Microsoft won't cut off win32 [B]for a while[/B] because of the volume of business that use it[/QUOTE]If a single person at Microsoft has the smallest bit of a brain, they'll never cut off win32. So much would be lost.

[QUOTE=chipsnapper2;50778552]:v: You're not gonna believe what they're doing in Sierra, they've removed the ability to run unsigned apps :dogwow:[/QUOTE] They haven't. Even before by default you couldn't run them by double clicking without going to settings and allowing unsigned apps. So you could do either that or open the app by right click -> open, which skips that check all together. In Sierra they removed that global setting but right click -> open still works. It's mostly just to protect the "mainstream" users that don't know what they are doing, powerusers can still run unsigned apps like before.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50778308]Afaik opengl is the standard for non-windows.[/QUOTE] DirectX is more than OpenGL is, OpenGL competes with Direct3D which is a single component. DX also has pretty great debugging tools in VS, the best OpenGL tools I've seen come from Nvidia but they are hardly flawless.

[QUOTE=Monkah;50778616]If a single person at Microsoft has the smallest bit of a brain, they'll never cut off win32. So much would be lost.[/QUOTE] They are likely to cut it off at some point. As in, not supporting it much like a vast majority of other MS technologies that get cut off. Win32 apps would rely heavily on a visualised Win32 environment that abstracts the current core API they are using. This is essentially what has happened to the ancient Win16 API. There's zero support for it now in reality, but it does live on still with heavy restrictions in what it can do compared to a modern API and a shitload of virtualisation for when the modern OS just doesn't have a component.

how about valve completely rebuilds the steam client so it isnt shit and doesnt have a issue with win32 everyone wins

[QUOTE=Wii60;50779026]how about valve completely rebuilds the steam client so it isnt shit and doesnt have a issue with win32 everyone wins[/QUOTE] outside of using older programs no one should be using 32 bit windows anyways so what would even be the point not consumers at least. The less consumers using 32 bit the better

[QUOTE=Wii60;50779026]how about valve completely rebuilds the steam client so it isnt shit and doesnt have a issue with win32 everyone wins[/QUOTE] Asking Valve to do anything is like trying to get a sloth to move.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50778759]They are likely to cut it off at some point. As in, not supporting it much like a vast majority of other MS technologies that get cut off. Win32 apps would rely heavily on a visualised Win32 environment that abstracts the current core API they are using. This is essentially what has happened to the ancient Win16 API. There's zero support for it now in reality, but it does live on still with heavy restrictions in what it can do compared to a modern API and a shitload of virtualisation for when the modern OS just doesn't have a component.[/QUOTE] They have kinda tried this with Centennial, I think it would take a lot to force Win32 apps to live in this environment though. Win32 has APIs that do not exist in WinRT, this would have to change somehow, if only for applications such as Visual Studio. There does come a point at which maintaining the legacy technology is easier than replacing it, I think Win32 might have reached this point.