Tim Sweeney thinks Microsoft will make Steam "progressively worse" with Windows 10 patches - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;50776956]Does it really seem [I]that[/I] far fetched?[/QUOTE] It really isn't, but they would try once in many years, get huge backlash, then back off.

Yeah Win32 isn't going anywhere for awhile. But since it is considered legacy it will probably go the route of "no development beyond bug and stability fixes" in other words no new features or improvements. I don't see that happening for at least another 5 years, but Win32's days are definitely numbered.

[QUOTE=Demache;50779346]Yeah Win32 isn't going anywhere for awhile. But since it is considered legacy it will probably go the route of "no development beyond bug and stability fixes" in other words no new features or improvements. I don't see that happening for at least another 5 years, but Win32's days are definitely numbered.[/QUOTE] It'll probably be a bit like the shift from the old MS-DOS kernel to NT where almost fucking everything broke when it does happen. There'll just be a wall in place between certain versions of Windows and should you need it on anything new you will have to virtualise the hell out of it. Win32 apps from standard applications development groups aren't as common today thanks to higher level or better abstracted APIs existing. But it's going to hurt a lot for legacy and higher performance programs (despite the fact writing in C/C++ today isn't really a performance boost 90% of the time, but whatever).

[QUOTE=Demache;50779346]Yeah Win32 isn't going anywhere for awhile. But since it is considered legacy it will probably go the route of "no development beyond bug and stability fixes" in other words no new features or improvements. I don't see that happening for at least another 5 years, but Win32's days are definitely numbered.[/QUOTE] Not true at all. In-fact, [URL="https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn614993.aspx"]MS bluntly states[/URL] that Win32 and C++ are the best choice for graphics intense applications, apps that need low-level access (how would we write drivers?!) and apps that are cross platform. Regarding Win10 APIs, [URL="https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt654039(v=vs.85).aspx"]here's a full list of APIs that got added[/URL]

[QUOTE=Foda;50779471]Not true at all. In-fact, [URL="https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn614993.aspx"]MS bluntly states[/URL] that Win32 and C++ are the best choice for graphics intense applications, apps that need low-level access (how would we write drivers?!) and apps that are cross platform. Regarding Win10 APIs, [URL="https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt654039(v=vs.85).aspx"]here's a full list of APIs that got added[/URL][/QUOTE] I didn't say it's happening now. I'm talking long term. 5-15 years from now. A lot of shit can change in 15 years.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50779036]outside of using older programs no one should be using 32 bit windows anyways so what would even be the point not consumers at least. The less consumers using 32 bit the better[/QUOTE] Like explained before in this thread, using win32 doesn't mean the program itself is 32bit. That's just the name people use for the old windows api. Microsoft themself just reference to it as "Windows API" now since Win32 is misleading.

[QUOTE=Aide;50777171][b]Every thing checks out[/b] [vid]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fp3uiyg725j0qfw/2016-07-26_07-17-09.webm[/vid][/QUOTE] I don't get the point

[QUOTE=Foda;50779471]Not true at all. In-fact, [URL="https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn614993.aspx"]MS bluntly states[/URL] that Win32 and C++ are the best choice for graphics intense applications and apps that are cross platform.[/QUOTE] The points there are kinda outdated, with [url=https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn584397(v=vs.110).aspx]UWP .Net programs can now compile to assembly instead of IL[/url], like a C++ program would meaning they would roughly have the same performance. And with [url=https://github.com/dotnet/core].Net Core[/url] and [url=http://www.mono-project.com/]Mono[/url] Cross Platform really isn't a issue anymore either.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50779567]I don't get the point[/QUOTE] your a win 10 user, must mean you like deepthroating microsofts dick!!!11

[QUOTE=Scratch.;50777769]They released an article a month ago regarding enterprise and how that can effectively and effeciently upgrade workstations to windows 10, monitoring application stability etc. one of their statements were as follows as many have mentioned, Microsoft cares about the enterprise versions of the operating system and corporations a lot more as that's their primary source of income. If they want to entice users to use newer versions of the operating system, they need to ensure compatibility with each of the corporations current needs. And with 10 being [i]the last[/i] version of windows [i]apparently[/i] (small changes every so often, big updates 3-5 years... OSX), I assume compatibility would be a primary focus point for each update so that users can remain confident that their solutions will continue to work regardless of what version of windows they run [editline]27th July 2016[/editline] Sounds written up weird. I assume you're talking about looking for packages off apt-get or whatever package manager people like to use. This only works if you're given root permissions, so most of the software I get when I'm in a jailed environment is downloading the source code of the net and compiling it myself (make/install). Nothing wrong with package managers [t]http://jesusfuck.me/di/Q3YZ/16-07-27-01-42-03-administrator-windows-powershell.png[/t][/QUOTE] Chocolatey is a huge security risk and is a mess in general, there is definetly something wrong with it.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;50777096]I can see this happening. Accidental Steam/other services breaking updates to push users to alternatives, though I feel that Steam would update incredibly fast if this started happened, you probably wouldn't notice.[/QUOTE] Not if Microsoft breaks the steam update manager

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50777839]If they microsoft removes win32 capability or makes it 100% garbage Steam will update to have 64 bit support, it's silly to think that the biggest pc gaming platform will just let themselves die for no reason.[/QUOTE] Win32 has nothing to do with the OS being 32 bit or 64 bit.

Once UWP becomes more open with the anniversary update (if MS stays true to their word), then I hope it eventually does replace Win32. Not having registry bloat is a good thing, and so is a generally more secure platform. However, Win32 will never go away, and neither will support for it on future iterations of Windows. There are just way too many applications that are built on it, and to remove such legacy support would just kill the adoption of future versions. As for MS killing off Steam, I seriously doubt that would happen. Not only has MS said they plan to release more of their future games on Steam, but Steam (and PC gaming as a whole) is a pretty large reason why people are still sticking with Windows. They would essentially be getting rid of a large chunk of their userbase if they did such a thing. The most that might happen regarding MS and Steam is future MS games on Steam might just ship on Steam as UWAs rather than Win32 apps (as UWAs can be just as portable), which will upset those who are still clinging to Win 7, possibly forcing them to upgrade if it's a game they really want to play. Same as how DX11 exclusive games pretty much forced XP users to finally install Win 7. Obviously, the same will apply to DX12 only games.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50777897]UWPs can be downloaded from third party sites, and by default you can install them on your system. The Store isn't currently required, though of course that's basically the only way you can get them right now.[/QUOTE] How does that exactly work? I know back in the days of windows 8 to install metro applications you needed to get a developer license which while it was free still did not justify anything.

[QUOTE=eirexe;50779699]How does that exactly work? I know back in the days of windows 8 to install metro applications you needed to get a developer license which while it was free still did not justify anything.[/QUOTE] You can just enable sideloading in the security panel now. Similarly to Android. UWP isn't the [I]~~~death of open platforms~~~~~~[/I] any more than .Net was. Developers are still gonna develop for whatever market they wanted. MS haven't locked them down super hard (similarly to Apples .app format, it's just a container you can pop open, Redstone should be integrating this into Explorer next week). It's just a modernisation of distribution for standard Windows executables to try and neaten everything up a bit.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;50779736]You can just enable sideloading in the security panel now. Similarly to Android. UWP isn't the [I]~~~death of open platforms~~~~~~[/I] any more than .Net was. Developers are still gonna develop for whatever market they wanted. MS haven't locked them down super hard (similarly to Apples .app format, it's just a container you can pop open, Redstone should be integrating this into Explorer next week). It's just a modernisation of distribution for standard Windows executables to try and neaten everything up a bit.[/QUOTE] Ah then it's not that terrible, I expected something on the levels of metro where installing something was a relatively complicated process.

[QUOTE=eirexe;50779851]Ah then it's not that terrible, I expected something on the levels of metro where installing something was a relatively complicated process.[/QUOTE] 8 and 8.1 were super transitional stages for the OS. MS appear to have worked out basically all the kinks of the unified framework when it comes to stuff like this now. I do remember it being a bit of a shit to install a proper Metro application in 8, Modern apps are comparatively a breeze in 10 I've found.

Tch. Valve doesn't need Microsoft's help to royally screw Steam up. They've been managing that fine on their own for years now. But by all means, blame Steam continually shooting [i]itself[/i] in the foot on industry bogeyman Microsoft if it means you can still hang into this fantasy of Gaben's league of infallible crowbar-wielding idols. Because GWFL sucked back in the day, right? Oh, but Steam launched [i]flawlessly[/i], didn't it? No problems or cries of shoddy DRM back in the mid-2000s! You don't remember anything! We were always at war with Eurasia!

[QUOTE=ben1066;50778737]DirectX is more than OpenGL is, OpenGL competes with Direct3D which is a single component. DX also has pretty great debugging tools in VS, the best OpenGL tools I've seen come from Nvidia but they are hardly flawless.[/QUOTE] What's the difference between directx and direct3d

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50780371]What's the difference between directx and direct3d[/QUOTE] Direct3D renders, DirectX also contains input and audio and some other shit afaik

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50780379]Direct3D renders, DirectX also contains input and audio and some other shit afaik[/QUOTE] So directx is kind of like SDL? (though more robust)

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50780407]So directx is kind of like SDL? (though more robust)[/QUOTE] [del]sdl and directx have entirely different goals[/del] -- actually, I guess SDL is just a cross platform direct X (albeit, there is no 3D component to it, so its direct2d); I'd consider SDL much more robust and powerful because of how much easier it is to use its API. also this thread wreaks of tinfoil hat. no, microsoft is never going to phase out win32 unless a more popular api design comes out, and even then the api will likely be the same. people actually saying that others' opinions are mute because they're using win10.. what? "you live in the US you're not allowed to have an opinion about it!" hell even the epic CEO is close minded as hell. the UWP platform is just to make it easier to port things between the various windows devices, they're not going to remove the capability to make apps the old fashioned way UWP apps are barely even restricted they're just a clean API (its literally .net making it significantly easier to run on different platforms) i didn't realize it was possible to be this dense and misinformed.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50777462]I wonder if there'll ever be a Linux based OS which competes with Windows. Ubuntu is #1 right now, but the UI is terrible. I'm glad that there are more and more games every day for Linux. Really, games are the only area in which windows is ahead of Linux right now[/QUOTE] so install another DE the beauty of Linux based systems is if you don't like a component, you can almost always just throw it out and use something else.

[QUOTE=lavacano;50781108]so install another DE the beauty of Linux based systems is if you don't like a component, you can almost always just throw it out and use something else.[/QUOTE] I've got my de all riced up. But I mean for the average user who won't install a new DE

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50781128]I've got my de all riced up. But I mean for the average user who won't install a new DE[/QUOTE] it really should just be a notification on first boot at this point "Don't like this desktop? You can change it here, or install a new one from the software center! "

[QUOTE=The Baconator;50779655]Chocolatey is a huge security risk and is a mess in general, there is definetly something wrong with it.[/QUOTE] The term was used to cover all package managers It's up to the user to decide what they want to use. Oneget alerts me every time I download from chocolatey, as well as not being a default source, since I added it manually for testing reasons. [editline]27th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=eirexe;50779851]Ah then it's not that terrible, I expected something on the levels of metro where installing something was a relatively complicated process.[/QUOTE] Also some powershell nonsense is needed. I think add-appxpackage is the cndlet to use, and point it to the application manifest file Haven't got any built applications to test it on

Well this seems terribly conspiratorial but then again microsoft did do extensive research on how to take a good product and make it progressively worse and worse and alienate the clientbase. So he is saying now they will try that without at first buying the product?