Refugees in Hollands largest center march through streets in protest for better living conditions - Polidicks

[QUOTE]- They will not give my child anti-biotics for his cough.[/QUOTE] The Dutch public education system should be better than anything in Syria, so there's that...

Literally this is what happens when the rest of the world starts demanding they live like the first world. Our consumption is so damn high that when other masses of people start trying to consume at that rate, especially on "our" resources, we get shocked. While it is ridiculous that they are demanding these conditions right away, they are basically asking to consume at the same rate as us and that shouldn't shock us if we already committed to "integrating them". Either we reduce our overall consumption, or we need to be less surprised when the rest of the world starts wanting to consume like we do.

[QUOTE=darth-veger;49295535]Okay i wish to add to the subject that those questions regarding slow wifi are actually the work of the media putting words into peoples mouth. In a interview with some of the refugees, the NOS (one of the largest news shows in the Netherlands) smartly cut out the question that the reporter asked to the refugees. Right now according to some refugees who were interviewed it was said that the reporter asked "What do you wish that the government would improve here?" instead of "What do you think of the refugee shelter?". NOS has been very anti-refugee lately but there are mixed messages everywhere. [url]http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/6695671/d0901762/vluchtelingen_zijn_ontevreden.html[/url] The subtitles are Dutch but they speak English, for those who can't see it they are basically complaining the food is bad, there are no TV's in their rooms and refuse to go indoors because of that, i personally don't think its fair to just say that every refugee should leave this country because around 500 of them have said bad shit like that[/QUOTE] I invite you to go to AZC Heumensoord yourself, in Nijmegen or any other AZC for that matter. You can speak to refugees themselves, and just ask them "What problems do you have?" And WIFI will come up instantly. The NOS is 80% pro-refugee in their reporting. Nobody however is, or should be, claiming that every refugee should leave the country. It's not a binairy problem, and there isn't a binairy solution. Saying stuff like that is way too shallow. Also I'd ask you to please not just take that number 500 'out of your ass'. The problems are substantional. There are 50.000 refugees in the Netherlands currently. You're suggesting only 1 percent is problematic in their opinion of the housing and service they receive. It is anecdotal yes, but from my personal experience, if you speak to a group of 50 refugees.. then at least 35 of them have the same complaints. I'm not going to claim that therefor 70% of the 50.000 refugees are acting in this 'spoiled, ungrateful' manner. However, I will say it's MUCH more substantial than the 1% you're guessing.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;49295644]Literally this is what happens when the rest of the world starts demanding they live like the first world. Our consumption is so damn high that when other masses of people start trying to consume at that rate, especially on "our" resources, we get shocked. While it is ridiculous that they are demanding these conditions right away, they are basically asking to consume at the same rate as us and that shouldn't shock us if we already committed to "integrating them". Either we reduce our overall consumption, or we need to be less surprised when the rest of the world starts wanting to consume like we do.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that the average person living in the west works their ass off and pays a ridiculous amount of taxes to support this lifestyle. This isn't people being upset that these refugees want to live in relative luxury. This is people being upset that they want it all [b]for free[/b].

[QUOTE=V12US;49295690]Keep in mind that the average person living in the west works their ass off and pays a ridiculous amount of taxes to support this lifestyle. This isn't people being upset that these refugees want to live in relative luxury. This is people being upset that they want it all [b]for free[/b].[/QUOTE] Yes, a very valid and important thing to note. Thank you for bringing this up, since I completely forgot it.

[QUOTE=Rumbler;49295660]I invite you to go to AZC Heumensoord yourself, in Nijmegen or any other AZC for that matter. You can speak to refugees themselves, and just ask them "What problems do you have?" And WIFI will come up instantly. The NOS is 80% pro-refugee in their reporting. Nobody however is, or should be, claiming that every refugee should leave the country. It's not a binairy problem, and there isn't a binairy solution. Saying stuff like that is way too shallow. Also I'd ask you to please not just take that number 500 'out of your ass'. The problems are substantional. There are 50.000 refugees in the Netherlands currently. You're suggesting only 1 percent is problematic in their opinion of the housing and service they receive. It is anecdotal yes, but from my personal experience, if you speak to a group of 50 refugees.. then at least 35 of them have the same complaints. I'm not going to claim that therefor 70% of the 50.000 refugees are acting in this 'spoiled, ungrateful' manner. However, I will say it's MUCH more substantial than the 1% you're guessing.[/QUOTE] Ho easy there, cowboy.

Its like having a friend get kicked out and you tell them you can float them for a while, and the next morning you wake up he's standing there being like "wtf dude no waffles?"

[QUOTE=Rumbler;49295366] Yes I do. Started a company when I was 16. Failed miserably, became very poor. Worked endlessly and then started a company in intelligent-software. And I now have 7 full-time employees, and 4 variable positions that I am filling. It's kind of sad though, that I have to go into such depths to explain where I come from. Nobody is asking you for your life story, to validate or falsify your claims. It's just when you are critical that you have to expose yourself right? Since that's not the popular opinion to have? [b]I'd really appreciate, if you'd respond to this message substantively. I took the time to bare myself a bit more than I'm comfortable doing just to meet your criticism. You can respond to me in PM as well if you'd prefer.[/b][/QUOTE] You can't put that shit on me. You were the one who brought up having employees. I was just trying to get the facts straight because someone who owns a small business and is responsible for the salaries of his workers probably doesn't have a lot of time to volunteer. [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] Nobody is going to hunt you down for your opinion about refugees dude many many people on FP feel the same way.

Oh no, these poor economic migrants. When will we buy them all houses and give them enough for a different meal each day, along with enough to buy new phones and high speed internet for them all? When will these racist policies end?!? How dare we be such a backwards nation! Maybe they should just fuck off, it's not like they're wanted. They should be grateful they're even getting a tent, meanwhile enough NATIVE CITIZENS are in financial problems or can't find a place to live.

they don't seem to get that they've flooded these countries beyond their capacity to even handle them, like litterally anywhere else but europe they'd be living in at best UN tents, some water, and some food a day, no cash, and no future

[QUOTE=Rumbler;49295366]Well unlike some people, I prefer to work towards a solution if I see problems instead of just sitting down behind a computer and complaining, and calling others who don't agree with me names.[/QUOTE] I said this in the other thread but for someone who doesn't like people making assumptions about them based on their posts you really like to presume the worst about the people replying to you. [QUOTE=Rumbler;49295366]I volunteered at the IND (Dutch Immigration Service) about 8 years ago, because I wanted to improve integration for groups that were causing problems at the time. I became a 'buurtvader' (or neighbourhood-father) where people with problems could report to. I also actively helped people do things they were having problems to. This includes finding work, being accepted, learning their way in Dutch society, or just to provide a listening ear. The difference with me and other volunteers at many times is that they volunteer out of progressiveness. Not me. I volunteer to provide a voice towards newcomers in the Netherlands, that doesn't pamper them, or sugarcoat things. I tell them like it is. If you want to function here, then you need to adapt. If you don't, then you shouldn't expect to be very happy here. Nothing is free, you have to work for everything. It works like this for natives, but also for newcomers. Stay in your way of life, that you were used to in your country of origin, consequently not be accepted in society, consequently not find work, consequently be very poor and dependant on welfare, consequently be unaccepted even more in society, consequently end up in the criminal system. Do you want that? No? Then please accept the values of your new country. This means shaking the hand of a women, even if your religion tells you not to. This means learning the language. This means working hard. This means trying your best to contribute to society. Can't or don't want to do any of the above? I'll advise you to leave this country, because you will not find happiness here, and make things worse for natives and for people that are willing to integrate. I coached about 13 families in the 8 years that I volunteered for the IND. I helped Maroccans, Turks, people from Curacao, Polish, Bulgarian, White-Russian and Spanish families. I'm happy to report, because of my 'strict' but friendly attitude, I was often favored by the immigrants themselves. Except for one extremely islamic-religious family that was offended they'd have to shake hands with women to function here. They didn't take that into account, and chose to migrate to another country. I don't know where they went. I would give it to them straight, in a friendly way, without telling them fairytales. And that is appreciated, because you then take them seriously and actually HELP them function in a new and scary environment. The sweettalkers, try to soften it up, or present situations better or easier than they are, because they feel like being super tolerant is the progressive and moral thing to do. It's not, in practice. If I had a child, and raise them saying the whole world loves you and everyone wants the very best for you, they'd be completely unfit to function in society. I wouldn't be preparing a child properly. So then why to this to full-grown adults who have a lot of catching up to do socially, educationally and functionally in an alien society. Doesn't make sense to me. Progressive tolerance is deadly. To the welbeing of native countrymen, the immigrants that came before, and the new immigrants themselves. Because I now see the same problems starting again, with the refugeecrisis, and because I wanted to know what I'm talking about. I volunteered again, and I'm currently applying the same 'strategy' that I was before.[/QUOTE] This is a bizarre post because you clearly care a lot about making sure refugees and immigrants receive the help and attention they need which is very commendable. You are doing more about this situation than I am and I'd guess more than most people on FP are doing. But you also seem to show a general dislike of refugees and definitely stand opposed to your government allowing them in your country. Even if you see yourself as someone doing the right thing by not coddling refugees (as you say the more "progressive" volunteers do) you realize that you are making the process of accepting more refugees easier? I don't really know what else to say though. Good on you for doing something positive, I just don't understand why you have such a negative attitude when you clearly invest so much in making sure refugees find help.

Could people fucking finally stop blaming the media for every negative thing about Refugees? Sorry shitheads but sadly many of the migrants DO provide enough reasons to hate them on their own, and it doesn't take a single bit of media twisting. If the media would know only half of the shit happening inside our home they would have a fucking field day of joy. Some other people have said it, but you should shut the fuck up if you have no idea. Go to a fucking Refugee Home and start working or volunteering there. It took me exactly 3 weeks until i HATED 95% of the people I had to interact with. And yes someone actually threw Cheese at me because I didn't give them the WiFi Password for the Office Wifi, which I'm not allowed to... And yes people are sadly right when they say that many of the people coming here are Ungrateful Fucks, and they DO complain about the food. The canteen food is better than what I got at fucking school or university right now. I didn't have to go shopping for 3 weeks because i started to collect the food they put in the GARBAGE. I literally have like 5 kilo of Shepherd Cheese in my Fridge, together with tons of sausages, mortadella, normal cheese, cans of mandarines, tuna, and other stuff. The refugees at our home, beside getting normal meals at the Cantine, get those snack packages every day, of which like 90% goes directly into the trash, why the fuck do they even go out of their rooms to collect them??? I don't fucking understand it. And it's fucking good food! As said I don't even go shopping anymore! At one point I got much more than I could eat in time, so I started to smuggle the stuff out to a local soup kitchen. We are actually advised at work to not talk about the stuff that happens inside too much. But I really can't fucking take it anymore if I have to read any more dreamy sparke dreamland shit spewing out of some of your mouths. What the fuck are you thinking? Some of you have some crazy expectations. You hear them getting insulted as devils and defend them as saints. Stop your black and white bullshit. This of course is not representative of each and every refugee coming to Germany. I can only speak about the situation in my refugee home.

[QUOTE=EskillV2;49294744]That looks really good.[/QUOTE] actually it looks like vomit but it tastes good

[QUOTE=MaGGiFiXXX;49296043]Could people fucking finally stop blaming the media for every negative thing about Refugees? ... This of course is not representative of each and every refugee coming to Germany. I can only speak about the situation in my refugee home.[/QUOTE] That's pretty shitty, sucks to hear. Have you guys tried telling them to put the unopened food they don't want into a seperate bin yet or did they just refuse and throw it in the trash anyways?

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;49296160]That's pretty shitty, sucks to hear. Have you guys tried telling them to put the unopened food they don't want into a seperate bin yet or did they just refuse and throw it in the trash anyways?[/QUOTE] Sadly the garbage situation is a bit out of hand, because they don't really put it in any bin... they just throw it in the floor when no ones looking. We had to start writing Room Numbers and Names on the trash bags. But then many used the snack bags for their trash, as said often with all the edible content still in them. Of course not anyone does this, but well we are getting larger by the day, when the refugee home opened we got 600 people, right now we're at roughly 1000, and the city tries to negotiate to put an upper limit at 2000. So even when only 25% misbehave in regards of collecting trash or at the toilets, it is utter chaos.

What the fuck? REFUGEES Bitch please. Since when Holland is next to Syria? If you choose to travel all that way, sorry, but you are not a refugee. A refugee cares about fleeing from war. Not about picking the best place to stay. Hoping to get a free house. A free wifi connection. Free 3 Michelin stars food. Why not choose to stay in Turkey? In other arab countries? Lebanon? Jordan? Like almost 3.000.000 compatriots do? Ah, true, they don't have all the welfare benefits, public goods and so many things that Europe offers. Let me tell you one thing. People who flee FAR from war HARDLY go back to their homes. Bitch please, again. Do you think once they have tasted the level of life in Europe, they will "want" to go back to their country? -Put plainly, like so many other countries around the globe: A shit hole- The only ones going back to their countries are those being actual refugees in Turkey, in the Lebanon and in Jordan. The rest who are spread around Europe will just choose to stay there.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;49296686]What the fuck? REFUGEES Bitch please. Since when Holland is next to Syria? bla bla bla[/QUOTE] Why should/how can turkey bear the full brunt? They're already holding millions. The best solution is for every country to take some refugees to minimise the impact and cost per country.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49296699]Why should/how can turkey bear the full brunt? They're already holding millions. The best solution is for every country to take some refugees to minimise the impact and cost per country.[/QUOTE] If Turkey takes the full brunt of the immigration crisis, it might spur them to actually do something substantial about it. Minimizing the impact minimizes the interest in fixing the problem, that much has been seen by the limp-wristed behavior of the West even after ISIS slaughtered 130 people in Paris.

So why not just go back to Syria... oh right, the welfare benefits.

While I don't think we should send them all back (many of them are here legitimately just to get to safety), there are way too many bad apples taking advantage of the system and showing no respect. For example, randomly harrassing truck drivers on a highway. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-c1iW0WI2s[/media]

[QUOTE=codenamecueball;49294603]yeah i'm sure you'd all be really happy if you had to flee your country and the place you turn up in goes "ahaha fuck you have some gruel and a tent and stop complaining, at least you're not being shot at!" not like these people had houses, phone contracts, jobs and lives. it ain't cheap to be smuggled across the world - i'd bet a fiver a lot of these refugees worked a damn sight harder than a lot of people sneering at them down an internet forum do [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] why send the men? because men can work harder (if we follow that line). men can send the money back to pay them to smuggle the rest of the family over and get them asylum. imagine leaving your family being then being told well, you're alive, stop whinging, you don't need to contact your family?[/QUOTE] So fucking what, just because you had all that shit at home does not mean anything. You are fleeing from WAR, do you seriously expect to just pick off where you left? The whole idea is to get safety, shelter, food, and the basics. Yeah does it suck and are you bored? Yeah, but guess what life isn't fair and deal with what you got for now.

You go from a war zone where there is literally no infrastructure left to a country where you don't have to worry about being blown up by an airstrike in the middle of the night and you have the nerve to throw rocks at and threaten to kill random people because you don't have wifi and falafel. I don't know how many of the refugees are doing this so I can't judge them all, but holy shit.

I honestly never thought that people escaping a third-world country would have first-world problems.

My refugee experience has been subpar at best, not enough wifi. 3/10

[QUOTE=V12US;49295690]Keep in mind that the average person living in the west works their ass off and pays a ridiculous amount of taxes to support this lifestyle. This isn't people being upset that these refugees want to live in relative luxury. This is people being upset that they want it all [b]for free[/b].[/QUOTE] Well the thing is that it's not like these people can get it any other way. Most countries have a policy where you can only work after x period of time of living in the country, so it's not like these refugees can immediately go to work and try to do this themselves. It's really stupid too, because migrants who actually work can actually improve the GDP of the country and will pay far more into the social welfare system then they will get out of it, but nope.

We'll regret this entire debacle in the future. Be it 1 year, 10 or 20; Europe will regret spending such a large amount of money on people who are largely ungrateful for it. Do they deserve help? Yes, of course. Are the majority thankful for the help they receive and understand we are doing the best we can? No and this is the problem.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49297513]I honestly never thought that people escaping a third-world country would have first-world problems.[/QUOTE] It's because smugglers among other things give them raised expectations that Europe is some rich Utopia where all the good shit happens. I think that if you got to a country where you were promised to get a mansion, and in the end all you got was a shitty one bedroom apartment, you as a first-world citizen would be pretty pissed. It's less of a cultural or religious problem, and more of a problem of ignorance to the fact that Europe has it's own problems. [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=technologic;49298057]We'll regret this entire debacle in the future. Be it 1 year, 10 or 20; Europe will regret spending such a large amount of money on people who are largely ungrateful for it. Do they deserve help? Yes, of course. Are the majority thankful for the help they receive and understand we are doing the best we can? No and this is the problem.[/QUOTE] Except if we were to actually spend the time to integrate these people they can significantly improve our economies, but no, because some of them protest due to unfortunate ignorance it's going to cause a bunch of xenophobia to pop up and we have an even worse problem than before.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49298058] I think that if you got to a country where you were promised to get a mansion, and in the end all you got was a shitty one bedroom apartment, you as a first-world citizen would be pretty pissed. .[/QUOTE] Reminds me of that time OUR FUCKING PRIME MINISTER said the he'll give his (spare)house to the refugees and then some time later the amount of Iraq refugees shot up

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49296022]I said this in the other thread but for someone who doesn't like people making assumptions about them based on their posts you really like to presume the worst about the people replying to you. This is a bizarre post because you clearly care a lot about making sure refugees and immigrants receive the help and attention they need which is very commendable. You are doing more about this situation than I am and I'd guess more than most people on FP are doing. But you also seem to show a general dislike of refugees and definitely stand opposed to your government allowing them in your country. Even if you see yourself as someone doing the right thing by not coddling refugees (as you say the more "progressive" volunteers do) you realize that you are making the process of accepting more refugees easier? I don't really know what else to say though. Good on you for doing something positive, I just don't understand why you have such a negative attitude when you clearly invest so much in making sure refugees find help.[/QUOTE] The thing I'm trying to battle by extensively having discussions is what you're also suffering from. You're not stupid, you're not a asshole, but it's a nuance that you're missing here. Probably subconciously, you are still equating criticism with dislike. I don't dislike Maroccan/Syrian/whatever immigrants, but I do dislike how they behave here. Or rather, how they are poorly integrated, unsocialized, welfare-dependant, etc. The dislike I have is aimed towards HOW they are, not WHO they are. I'm not blaming the immigrants for being HOW they are 100% either. It's mostly the fault of the lackluster politicians with their progressive-cuddle-policies. Sometimes you need to be strict to get things moving. I'd be all for mandatory coaching for immigrants. The West is incredibly different, from the countries where they originate from. They simply often do not know how to function, because you pull them forwards in social-development about 50 years when they move from Marocco to the Netherlands, for example. You can't say "oh we love you for who you are, whatever you do is fine" because then they'll keep practising their 'old' way in a society that's way more 'modern'. Instead of allowing or condoning them to hold views that clash with western culture, I propose (and actively practise) a policy where I tell them straight what is expected from them if they wish to function properly. I'm proud to say that one of my friends is the son of a family that I engaged 5 years ago. He was a full-on rural islamicly raised teenager. He held women and gay-unfriendly views, was heavily religious and was in trouble with the police already despite being in the country for just under a year. When I was appointed their 'neighbourhood-father' I gave him my number and told him to call my whenever there was anything he wanted to talk about. After quite some time, we developed a friendship and I managed to convince him to be more moderate in his islamic-views, so that he could for example, shake hands with women so that he would actually have a chance a getting and maintaining a job. He has since then found the perfect balance between holding his own identity, and adapting to the Dutch moral/values/culture/society. He has a job at an ICT-firm, has a house of his own, has a Dutch girlfriend and he's an all-round ok guy. He had tendencies to still be incredibly jealous because he subconciously still thought his girlfriend was way too attractive for other since she wasn't veiled, but both the girlfriend and me had extensive talks with him, and explained that if he couldnt get over that, it would be the same with relationships as it would be with work. If you don't adapt, you're not going to function here. No Dutch girl will want to be in a long-time relationship with a guy that forces his own religion upon that girl, and 'makes' her wear a veil. So eventually that also fixed itself, and now they're quite happy together for about 3 years, I think. Makes me feel quite good, to have played such an active part in actually solving a persons problems like that. I gave him the tools he needed, to succesfully integrate. This, unlike other volunteers, who keep trying to sell "Yeah Dutch people should accept you fully, because that's progressive." by which the immigrants keep bumping into the same walls and the same problems. [b]It all revolves around a very simple concept:[/b] Dutch people don't ask anyone to come here. However, they are welcoming if you do want to come. All they ask, is that you not damage our society, and contribute to it. This means, do not introduce religious elements in a secular society, do not detriment the social-revolution that we've had in the past 50 years, and do as is expected from you like is expected from Dutch natives as well. If you're unwilling, or unable, to adept then please leave our country for the good of both of us.

[QUOTE=codenamecueball;49294603]yeah i'm sure you'd all be really happy if you had to flee your country and the place you turn up in goes "ahaha fuck you have some gruel and a tent and stop complaining, at least you're not being shot at!" not like these people had houses, phone contracts, jobs and lives. it ain't cheap to be smuggled across the world - i'd bet a fiver a lot of these refugees worked a damn sight harder than a lot of people sneering at them down an internet forum do [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] why send the men? because men can work harder (if we follow that line). men can send the money back to pay them to smuggle the rest of the family over and get them asylum. imagine leaving your family being then being told well, you're alive, stop whinging, you don't need to contact your family?[/QUOTE] It's so odd that you would characterize the government that is giving these people food, shelter, WiFi, entertainment and cigarette money as "ha-ha fuck you here's a tent". I mean my god, the whole of Europe is struggling to help these refugees while their own homeless populations starve and they protest that the food is too boring for them? Since you're so desperate to show your compassion and concern for the refugees, why aren't you volunteering at a camp? Why aren't you building new houses for them? Why don't you feed them and let them stay in your home? It's so ironic when people rush to the defense of the refugee protestors and criticize people for sitting at their computers when you're doing the exact same thing.