Two Teens Sent to Prison for S. Korean Bullying Suicide - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799686]Regardless of the Human Development Index not focusing specifically on the addressing of mental health issues, With South Korea ranking above the majority of the EU, It is a fair assumption that adequate mental health services are available.[/QUOTE] Ok, then let's assume the child does not have the means to get to a mental health facility, nor can afford to. I know in many places, rehab and mental health facilities are costly. Everyone assumes rehab and whatnot is free, it isn't. I've got a friend who ended up with a $3,000 bill from drug rehab. It costs money to house people and take care of them. Money is another determining factor to the overall health and stability of a nation and its people. Why do you think America is so fat? It's cheaper to buy McDonald's than to buy a head of lettuce.

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34799683]Explain how it isn't. The shooter is making a conscious decision to attempt to harm another person. Whether he uses a gun, a rock, etc. He is still intending to cause harm. Same thing goes for these kids. They intended to emotionally damage someone. Why should only physical damage be taken into account on things? Mental damage is shown to be worse. Physical wounds can heal. Mental wounds are much harder to. [/QUOTE] The shooter is making an instant decision to attempt to end the life of the Victim. The bullies made the kid eat cookies off of the floor and forced his head in a sink. I'm not saying that the bullies didn't have the kid's suicide as an end goal, but it ultimately was kid's decision to end his life. The victims of shootings don't get that choice.

entitled, rather aptly "South Korea's Suicide Problem" [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704684604575382213752379230.html[/url] [quote][B]In 2009, South Korea had the highest suicide rate among the 31 mostly wealthy nations in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development[/B], at around 22 deaths per 100,000 people (compared with around 18 in 100,000 for the OECD as a whole.) The OECD notes that the rate in South Korea has increased rapidly even as it has slowed in most other developed nations, [B]with suicides among South Korean males, for instance, almost tripling between 1990 and 2006[/B]. The OECD report attributes the rise to "weakening social integration and erosion of the traditional family support base for the elderly," as well as a fast-changing economy over much of the period. Lee Min-soo, professor of psychiatry at Korea University College of Medicine, supports this view. [B]The high rate of suicide is the result of "social changes that the country's fast economic development brought and a culture that did not adapt to them."[/B] As recently as the 1960s, South Korean society was steeped in rural traditions and Confucian family values, with three generations often living under the same roof. Gross domestic product per capita was on a par with the poorest countries in Asia or Africa. In the decades since, South Korea has embarked on a process of political and commercial freedom and high-tech industrialization that has made it one of the wealthiest countries in the world. But at the same time as this "economic miracle" has swept the country to greater riches, many traditional social structures have broken down, with smaller families, rising house prices, the end of lifelong employment, fierce competition for the best jobs and rising alcoholism. The government reports the divorce rate almost tripled between 1989 and 2009, and the size of an average Korean household dwindled rapidly from the multigenerational homes of earlier years to less than three people per household now. "It is the price we pay for such unsustainable fast economic development," says Dr. Lee. [B]The suicide problem has also been linked with the Korean concept of "han," a kind of stoicism also tied to feelings of anger and impotence that arise when facing a situation that can't be changed. Han, deeply embedded in Korean society, has been linked to depression. [/B]"When a situation is bad and they can't show their cool selves, Koreans tend to get frustrated, give up and take drastic choices," says Hwang Sang-min, a professor of psychology at Yonsei University. These[B] cultural traits may be exacerbated by the stigma that many South Koreans attach to mental illness[/B], says Kang Do-hyun, who teaches psychiatry at Seoul National University Hospital. According to South Korea's Ministry of Health, [B]suicide ranks fourth among causes of death for Koreans overall—after cancer, heart disease and stroke[/B]—and is the most common cause of death among those in their 20s and 30s (in the U.S., traffic accidents are the biggest killer for this age group.) Yet [B]South Korea's overall health-care spending lags behind that of other OECD countries[/B] (only Turkey and Mexico spend less as a proportion of gross domestic product, according to the OECD.) [B]South Korea generally falls behind in mental-health treatment, lying near the bottom of the OECD's rankings in the number of psychiatrists per capita.[/B][/quote] [editline]21st February 2012[/editline] you cannot be [B]more[/B] wrong

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799525][quote]fool Pronunciation: /fuːl/ noun 1a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person[/quote]Yes, He is a fool. It is most unwise and imprudent to solve life's issues by flinging yourself off a building.[/QUOTE] Oh man you're bringing the dictionary out. [quote] coward Pronunciation: /ˈkaʊəd/ noun a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things[/quote]I'm pretty sure suicide is both dangerous and unpleasant.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799686]Regardless of the Human Development Index not focusing specifically on the addressing of mental health issues, With South Korea ranking above the majority of the EU, It is a fair assumption that adequate mental health services are available.[/QUOTE] No, it's not a fair assumption. Not even remotely. Australia has a very high quality of life generally (far higher than South Korea), but that does not mean that all Australians have access to mental health services, for several reasons. Immigrants, asylum seekers, Aboriginals, and young children particularly are amongst the certain groups who do not have adequate access. Mental health care is not available for everyone in a particular country, no matter what you think. Furthermore, mental illness is still stigmatized in some way in every country, so even if facilities are there, people will still not go to them. Additionally, counseling and such is expensive, even in countries where it is subsidized. So, no. Just because you have the ability to get counseling if you need it, does not mean a 15 year old boy in South Korea does. If the people around this boy did not, for whatever reason, stop the continued harassment that led him to commit suicide, what makes you think that he had the ability to go to a mental health facility? You're making so many privileged assumptions. [editline]21st February 2012[/editline] See what Contag said.

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34799706]Ok, then let's assume the child does not have the means to get to a mental health facility, nor can afford to. I know in many places, rehab and mental health facilities are costly. Everyone assumes rehab and whatnot is free, it isn't. I've got a friend who ended up with a $3,000 bill from drug rehab. It costs money to house people and take care of them. Money is another determining factor to the overall health and stability of a nation and its people. Why do you think America is so fat? It's cheaper to buy McDonald's than to buy a head of lettuce.[/QUOTE] Well I'm not sure if you're aware, but us civilized countries have what's called [B]public healthcare[/B]. South Korea is one of these countries. If you're not familiar with the term, It's basically a system where health insurance is not kept in the hands of greedy corporations.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799718]The shooter is making an instant decision to attempt to end the life of the Victim. The bullies made the kid eat cookies off of the floor and forced his head in a sink. I'm not saying that the bullies didn't have the kid's suicide as an end goal, but it ultimately was kid's decision to end his life. The victims of shootings don't get that choice.[/QUOTE] Oh here we go. "It was his own decision." You obviously have no clue what kind of mental duress people can be put under. Not everyone is in the right frame of mind to make a decision. Stress is a very powerful thing. It can adversely affect every decision you make. From the food you eat, to the speed you drive your car. It's stupid to assume everyone can make a clear-cut decision. Emotions take over in decision making, especially when stress has been introduced. Not everyone in this world is capable of logical thinking. The store I work at has a family come in, their daughter is mentally challenged. She sits on the floor and throws things. The father hits her all the time, because he thinks she's misbehaving on purpose. She has mental illness. She is in no way capable of making any rational decisions. Mental illness can be acquired over a course of someones life, at any age. Please read up on the effects of stress before ignorantly claiming, "It's his own decision."

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799750]Well I'm not sure if you're aware, but us civilized countries have what's called [B]public healthcare[/B]. South Korea is one of these countries. If you're not familiar with the term, It's basically a system where health insurance is not kept in the hands of greedy corporations.[/QUOTE] read what I posted dorkus

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34799755]Oh here we go. "It was his own decision." You obviously have no clue what kind of mental duress people can be put under. Not everyone is in the right frame of mind to make a decision. Stress is a very powerful thing. It can adversely affect every decision you make. From the food you eat, to the speed you drive your car. It's stupid to assume everyone can make a clear-cut decision. Emotions take over in decision making, especially when stress has been introduced. Not everyone in this world is capable of logical thinking. The store I work at has a family come in, their daughter is mentally challenged. She sits on the floor and throws things. The father hits her all the time, because he thinks she's misbehaving on purpose. She has mental illness. She is in no way capable of making any rational decisions. Mental illness can be acquired over a course of someones life, at any age. Please read up on the effects of stress before ignorantly claiming, "It's his own decision."[/QUOTE] Again, I'd like to redirect anyone not in correct mind and contemplating suicide to consult professional help. Regardless of mental illness, the ultimate choice to kill oneself is made by the victim. The illness isn't a separate entity.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799782]Again, I'd like to redirect anyone not in correct mind and contemplating suicide to consult professional help. Regardless of mental illness, the ultimate choice to kill oneself is made by the victim. The illness isn't a separate entity.[/QUOTE] Often times these illnesses go unnoticed, very few people who have them are even aware they do. They may assume they're perfectly sane and fine. Maybe you're the one rare exception to where you can recognize you have a mental health disorder, and then you can have the capacity to go seek help. Props to you.

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34799578]Not really. It's like when someone shoots someone with a gun. The bullet itself is capable of delivering a fatal blow, but it's the residual effects like bleeding that normally cause death. It's like saying that the person should get off the hook for murder because the bullet didn't kill them on impact and they died a while later from a severed artery.[/QUOTE] Please stay in context with this article. I get confuse. :(

[QUOTE=CrispexOps;34799801]Often times these illnesses go unnoticed, very few people who have them are even aware they do. They may assume they're perfectly sane and fine. Maybe you're the one rare exception to where you can recognize you have a mental health disorder, and then you can have the capacity to go seek help. Props to you.[/QUOTE] Well then I wouldn't see how the bullies should be held accountable for the child's fragile mental disorder. And I can assure you I have no intention to dive into pavement.

Captain Lawlrus: I'm sure you won't reply to this, since you seem to ignore everything that doesn't fit into your argument. However, here are two articles, one from the BBC, and one from the New York Times. I've quoted the relevant bits just for you. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331921]Tackling South Korea's High Suicide Rate[/url] [quote] According to the government, more than 40 South Koreans a day are taking their own lives - five times as many as in their parents' day.[/quote] [quote]Jong-sun is 21 years old. She has tried to commit suicide many times over the past 10 years, and now chooses to live here in the hospital, where she is receiving support and counselling. "I can't think how many times I've tried to kill myself," she told me. "It must now be over 20 times, it's been so many I've lost count." She told me that she had kept her feelings of depression from those around her, and that when they had discovered her attempts at suicide, her family and friends blamed her for her depression. "They said my mind was weak, and that if I could boost my spirits, I could make myself better. I felt a real sense of despair," she said. "I didn't think it was my fault but when people acted like that I began to wonder if perhaps it was. And the feeling lingered." Jong-sun believes there is little real understanding of mental illness in South Korea, despite the spiralling suicide rate. Only here, after 10 years, has she managed to find the counselling she needed, she says, and is starting to feel better. Awareness was starting to improve, she said, but "I think it's a bit late".[/quote] [quote]Dr Hong says that, for parents, the pressure to push their children even harder has led to them overcoming the stigma of going to a psychiatrist. But, he says, they often come for the wrong reasons. They come to me to help their child work harder, he says, "to have better grades by being treated for ADHD (Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder) - because the school performance is so important".[/quote] [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/world/asia/07iht-psych07.html?pagewanted=all]Stressed And Depressed, Koreans Avoid Therapy[/url] [quote]And yet Koreans — while almost obsessively embracing Western innovations ranging from smartphones to the Internet to cosmetic surgery — have largely resisted Western psychotherapy for their growing anxieties, depression and stress. Talk-therapy modalities with psychiatrists, psychologists and other types of trained counselors are only slowly being accepted, according to mental health experts here. “Talking openly about emotional problems is still taboo,” said Dr. Kim Hyong-soo, a psychologist and professor at Chosun University in Kwangju. “With depression, the inclination for Koreans is to just bear with it and get over it,” he said. “If someone goes to a psychoanalyst, they know they’ll be stigmatized for the rest of their life. So they don’t go.” Mental health experts said many troubled South Koreans seek help from private psychiatric clinics (and pay their bills in cash) so their government-insurance records do not carry the stigma of a “Code F,” signifying someone who has received reimbursement for such care. Even when Koreans do seek out counseling, the learning curve can be steep. A prominent psychiatrist with a practice in Seoul, Jin-seng Park, said it was not uncommon for some new patients to come to his office, talk over a problem for 40 minutes and then be shocked when they’re presented with a bill. “They’ll say, ‘I have to pay? Just for talking? I can do that for free with my friend or my pastor,”’ said Dr. Park. Patients also balk, he said, at the idea of spending more than a couple sessions on talk therapy. Instead, most patients simply ask for, and expect, medication, said Dr. Park, whose Web site advises that “nearly all of the medications used in the U.S. are available here, too. So don’t worry about getting those medications in Korea.” About a third of his patients come for counseling, Dr. Park said, and the rest rely on medication. “Koreans are getting more comfortable with Western psychotherapy, but this is limited to the highly educated and those familiar with Western ways,” said Dr. Oh Kyung-ja, a Harvard-trained professor of clinical psychology at Yonsei University in Seoul. Meanwhile, the suicide rate in South Korea is nothing short of alarming, nearly three times higher than in the United States. The rate here doubled in the decade between 1999 and 2009. Suicide pacts among strangers who meet online is a growing phenomenon. Suicides by drinking pesticides, hanging or jumping from tall buildings are the most common. “We have seen a rapid increase in depression, and I’d say 80 to 90 percent of our suicides are byproducts of depression,” said Dr. Kim. Government mental health clinics have proved effective in helping with basic family or marital problems, he said, “but they’re not getting at depression.” “That issue is still very closed. We still conceal it.” South Korean society has traditionally been underpinned by Buddhist and Confucian values, which emphasize diligence, stoicism and modesty. Individual concerns are secondary. Preserving dignity, or “face,” especially for the family, is paramount.[/quote] [quote]“More Koreans see fortunetellers than psychiatrists,” said Dr. Yoon Dae-hyun, a psychiatrist at Seoul National University Hospital and an official with the Korean Association for Suicide Prevention. “Our biggest competitors are fortunetellers and room salons. They certainly make more money than us.”[/quote] South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, which [b]obviously[/b] means people are not getting the help they need. Stop repeating that they're a well developed country. We know this. It still doesn't mean what you think it means.

[QUOTE=devotchkade;34799878]Captain Lawlrus: I'm sure you won't reply to this, since you seem to ignore everything that doesn't fit into your argument. However, here are two articles, one from the BBC, and one from the New York Times. I've quoted the relevant bits just for you. South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, which [b]obviously[/b] means people are not getting the help they need. Stop repeating that they're a well developed country. We know this. It still doesn't mean what you think it means.[/QUOTE] Alright, I'll admit that my previous comments regarding mental health treatments were incorrect and misguided. I apologize for such remarks relating to the state of mental care in South Korea. With that stated, Under the pretense that this kid suffers from mental issues, The bullies should not be held fully accountable for his death.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799950]Alright, I'll admit that my previous comments regarding mental health treatments were incorrect and misguided. I apologize for such remarks relating to the state of mental care in South Korea. With that stated, Under the pretense that this kid suffers from mental issues, The bullies should not be held fully accountable for his death.[/QUOTE] Except that in many cases, mental issues can certainly be caused by other people's actions. For example, rape survivors, people in domestic-abuse situations, and - hey! - people who are constantly harassed and assaulted! Funny, that.

Encouraging someone to commit suicide is a criminal offense in my country. Good to see other countries do the same.

[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;34799950]Alright, I'll admit that my previous comments regarding mental health treatments were incorrect and misguided. I apologize for such remarks relating to the state of mental care in South Korea. With that stated, Under the pretense that this kid suffers from mental issues, The bullies should not be held fully accountable for his death.[/QUOTE] So what you are saying, if someone does not directly kill someone, but rather makes them so mentally unstable they kill themselves, it isnt murder? What if i go beat up someone everyday, and i say i will never stop this, ever, no matter what he does, and he eventually kills himself because he dont want to keep this going. Is that also just because he was a coward that couldnt stand up for himself? Or if i kidnap someone, leave a knife in the enclosed room containing said person, and start playing super loud screams and show horrible pictures on the walls, for several weeks, untill he kills himself, i should only be charged for kidnapping, because he was just a coward who wanted out of this temporary problem? It could not have been my fault, since he would obviously have to be mentally ill to even think about suicide, right?

They deserved prison. What they did was violent assault and harassment, and should be treated as such. It seems labeling it 'bullying' makes people take it less seriously. They should've been imprisoned before he killed himself.

[QUOTE=mac338;34801630]They deserved prison. What they did was violent assault and harassment, and should be treated as such. It seems labeling it 'bullying' makes people take it less seriously. They should've been imprisoned before he killed himself.[/QUOTE] if the bullying started in April 2011, why didn't the dude tell anybody?

[QUOTE=AK'z;34801676]if the bullying started in April 2011, why didn't the dude tell anybody?[/QUOTE] why are you asking him

I don't think bullies should be sent to prison but what they did was beyond that. Though sending them to prison will not fix anything. I doubt they will come out nice and loving.

I'm very glad steps were taken to punish the bullies. The bully situation in South Korea is actually very very bad. All the rich kids gang up on the poorer ones and everybody is in on it as long as they aren't the victim. Korea's youth is just as messed up as America's tbh. [editline]21st February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;34801676]if the bullying started in April 2011, why didn't the dude tell anybody?[/QUOTE] Because Asian culture is a culture of Shame and Honor. If they come and confess, it's seen as shameful. And most likely because there was nobody he could have talked to.

[QUOTE=riceyrice;34801923]most likely because there was nobody he could have talked to.[/QUOTE] Well surely that's more of a problem. No matter how hard you try, there will always be heartless dicks in the world. Without communication, there is no way to solve these problems.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34797043]i think prison is way too harsh for 15 year olds. yeah they're fucked and should definitely be punished, but not with prison.[/QUOTE] When I was 15 I had full control over my actions and the idea of right and wrong. It's not too harsh at all.

They gonna be someones bitch in jail.

[QUOTE=devotchkade;34799878]Captain Lawlrus: I'm sure you won't reply to this, since you seem to ignore everything that doesn't fit into your argument. However, here are two articles, one from the BBC, and one from the New York Times. I've quoted the relevant bits just for you. [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331921"]Tackling South Korea's High Suicide Rate[/URL] [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/world/asia/07iht-psych07.html?pagewanted=all"]Stressed And Depressed, Koreans Avoid Therapy[/URL] South Korea has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, which [B]obviously[/B] means people are not getting the help they need. Stop repeating that they're a well developed country. We know this. It still doesn't mean what you think it means.[/QUOTE] My opinion is that them actually taking bullying seriously makes them more developed than america, not that it is an achievement.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;34797407] i like how you say shit like this and in other threads point out that you work at a correctional facility. you're a piece of trash.[/QUOTE] Learn to take a joke. I worked (past tense) at a correctional facility. ITT guards are not allowed to joke, must be super serious all the time. [QUOTE=Boxbot219;34798008]Why do so many people advocate prison violence/rape? Yeah cause that totally won't make them even worse than they already are when they get released from prison.[/QUOTE] It's called a joke because a major stereotype of going to jail/prison. [QUOTE=EagleEye;34798072]I'm fairly certain they're joking, MR-X's quote was from a movie.[/QUOTE] Yes, Harold and Kumar Guantanamo Bay. Get mad guys, it is funny as hell.

[QUOTE=AK'z;34802330]Well surely that's more of a problem. No matter how hard you try, there will always be heartless dicks in the world. Without communication, there is no way to solve these problems.[/QUOTE] uhh so you're blaming the victim. ok

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;34803827]uhh so you're blaming the victim. ok[/QUOTE] Only one person here ended someone's life.

[QUOTE=AK'z;34803958]Only one person here ended someone's life.[/QUOTE] You said earlier that the main problem is people not relaxing and that they are 14/15 (w/e it was) and cant relax. I think your forgetting that the majority of kids here are that age...... If his parents wernt aware of this problem then its hardly their fault if a child can hide bulimia easily being bullied shouldnt be a problem. The jailed pair deserve longer.