• Web DRM standard moves to next phase of development, FSF's Defective by Design campaign to continue
    106 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50753399]but netflix owns very little of the IPs they host thus they're likely pressured into implementing the -passive- drm that noone should really have a problem with since it doesn't affect watching at all[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's probably the case. But I was talking about IP owners to begin with anyways. And there's no such thing as DRM that causes absolutely no problems. It may be fringe cases but it's all but guaranteed that legitimate customers are going to be affected by it. And at that point those customers are getting punished for being legitimate customers when actual pirates wouldn't be affected by it meaning the DRM is doing little to prevent piracy and in some cases will actually be encouraging it. And that's not touching on people who would take offense to there even being DRM to begin with and would choose to pirate it instead just to spite the IP owners for their decision to include DRM.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;50753449]Yeah, that's probably the case. But I was talking about IP owners to begin with anyways. And there's no such thing as DRM that causes absolutely no problems. It may be fringe cases but it's all but guaranteed that legitimate customers are going to be affected by it. And at that point those customers are getting punished for being legitimate customers when actual pirates wouldn't be affected by it meaning the DRM is doing little to prevent piracy and in some cases will actually be encouraging it. And that's not touching on people who would take offense to there even being DRM to begin with and would choose to pirate it instead just to spite the IP owners for their decision to include DRM.[/QUOTE] if you can point me to more than a few anecdotal cases where the netflix DRM has inhibited people from using netflix, fine people choosing to pirate simply because there's completely passive drm are pretty dumb
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50753488]if you can point me to more than a few anecdotal cases where the netflix DRM has inhibited people from using netflix,fine[/QUOTE] I can't. Have they actually even rolled it out yet? I was under the impression this was something they were working on implementing in the future. Anyways my argument isn't invalidated by any of that anyways. It's backed up quite a bit by the fact that basically every single kind of DRM that has ever been put in place has had cases where it prevented legitimate users from accessing whatever it was the DRM was protecting which should never happen because it can only serve to encourage piracy from those affected since it punishes them for being a legitimate user. [QUOTE]people choosing to pirate simply because there's completely passive drm are pretty dumb[/QUOTE] There's plenty of people who will pass on things that have DRM because they consider it to be a huge issue due to the problems associated with it and the fact that those implementing DRM would typically be far better served focusing on combating piracy in other ways. There's a reason that Gog is so popular and is only getting more popular as time goes on. They provide DRM free games and provide great service on top of that which is improving with time. So even if you do in fact pirate something from Gog you're actually missing out on their services. Stuff like Gog Galaxy, for example, doesn't work with pirated Gog games since they're not attached to your account but for games you legitimately own you have automatic updates and such. Though this could in a way be considered always online DRM itself but it's only used for updating and the Gog community stuff which would require an active internet connection no matter what. It doesn't actively prevent you from ever playing your games and in fact doesn't even need to be running for them to work. It's anecdotal but in my experience while there's people who do pirate games many of them will later move on to buy the game and even if they don't they're unlikely to actually keep playing it anyways. Most of those people would actually feel bad about continuing to play it if they enjoyed it specifically because Gog took the risk of releasing these games DRM free.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50753488]if you can point me to more than a few anecdotal cases where the netflix DRM has inhibited people from using netflix, fine people choosing to pirate simply because there's completely passive drm are pretty dumb[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really mind if you explained why it was necessary to have. A passive DRM would still be beaten by pirates, history shows that. In case of Netflix they would most likely be beaten by recording software (likely capture cards.) So why go through all that time and money to do something that doesn't do what it's meant to at all?
[QUOTE=gokiyono;50753964]I wouldn't really mind if you explained why it was necessary to have. A passive DRM would still be beaten by pirates, history shows that. In case of Netflix they would most likely be beaten by recording software (likely capture cards.) So why go through all that time and money to do something that doesn't do what it's meant to at all?[/QUOTE] Yes, any DRM can be beaten by pirates, but that's still going to take some time. Even if it takes a week longer to bypass it than before, that week is still enough time for people who might have otherwise pirated the thing to instead go and buy the thing. This kind of stuff isn't meant to make the content be inaccessible to pirates forever, it's only meant to make it so that pirates can't get the content right away when legit customers get it, it's meant to push that back for as long as possible.
[QUOTE=simkas;50754102]Yes, any DRM can be beaten by pirates, but that's still going to take some time. Even if it takes a week longer to bypass it than before, that week is still enough time for people who might have otherwise pirated the thing to instead go and buy the thing. This kind of stuff isn't meant to make the content be inaccessible to pirates forever, it's only meant to make it so that pirates can't get the content right away when legit customers get it, it's meant to push that back for as long as possible.[/QUOTE] And that's still a waste of effort since the people who pirate will just wait a week. Which is what makes DRM a feelgood measure You don't combat piracy by having some strange DRM that might cause problems for the end user (which has never happened ever). You fight piracy by, as the links I've posted earlier shows, making it more convenient to not pirate.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;50754143]And that's still a waste of effort since the people who pirate will just wait a week. Which is what makes DRM a feelgood measure [/QUOTE] No, a large amount of people who would pirate it will be like "fuck I can't pirate this but I want it so eh I'll just buy it". You underestimate how inpatient some people are.
[QUOTE=simkas;50754209]No, a large amount of people who would pirate it will be like "fuck I can't pirate this but I want it so eh I'll just buy it". You underestimate how inpatient some people are.[/QUOTE] In fact, that is Denuvo's plan: [QUOTE=PCGamerN]Denuvo's strategy is smarter. On one hand their admission that ATT is theoretically possible to crack diminishes the bravado of the traditional relationship between pirates and anti-piracy companies, so that there are fewer bragging rights for the cracker who manages it. [B]On the other hand, the apparently laborious nature of cracking ATT keeps the game safe from piracy for at least the first few days after its release, when potential sales are at their highest. "Our focus is to help publishers to secure the initial sales windows of their games," says Goebl, "hence delaying piracy."[/B][/QUOTE]
EME is already implemented in Edge, and as no one expected, it allows netflix to force you to use Edge to watch Netflix. If this is not affecting legitimate users I don't what it is, the fact that Netflix can control that is already worrying. EME is not a completely open standard, it requires a black boxed part that does the actual decoding.
[QUOTE=eirexe;50755993]EME is already implemented in Edge, and as no one expected, it allows netflix to force you to use Edge to watch Netflix. If this is not affecting legitimate users I don't what it is, the fact that Netflix can control that is already worrying. EME is not a completely open standard, it requires a black boxed part that does the actual decoding.[/QUOTE] How is netflix forcing anyone to use Edge? Chrome, IE, Firefox, Opera, and Safari all already support EME and can watch Netflix without plugins.
[QUOTE=ultradude25;50758253]How is netflix forcing anyone to use Edge? Chrome, IE, Firefox, Opera, and Safari all already support EME and can watch Netflix without plugins.[/QUOTE] "Only Internet Explorer and Microsoft Edge on Windows, and Safari on Mac, support 1080p HTML5 player streams while Chrome, Firefox and Opera only streams up to 720p in quality." [url]http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/12/want-1080p-playback-on-netflix-dont-use-firefox-or-chrome/[/url]
[QUOTE=simkas;50754209]No, a large amount of people who would pirate it will be like "fuck I can't pirate this but I want it so eh I'll just buy it". You underestimate how inpatient some people are.[/QUOTE] This really doesn't happen. I'm sure some people get impatient and end up buying it, but the vast majority of pirates just wait. You're underestimating how cheap some people are.
[QUOTE=eirexe;50758365]"Only Internet Explorer and Microsoft Edge on Windows, and Safari on Mac, support 1080p HTML5 player streams while Chrome, Firefox and Opera only streams up to 720p in quality." [url]http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/12/want-1080p-playback-on-netflix-dont-use-firefox-or-chrome/[/url][/QUOTE] Oh woe is me, only 720p? Literally unusable. Netflix could limit quality in browsers regardless if they wanted to, so how is it relevant to DRM?
[QUOTE=ultradude25;50759031]Oh woe is me, only 720p? Literally unusable. Netflix could limit quality in browsers regardless if they wanted to, so how is it relevant to DRM?[/QUOTE] Because DRM enables them to do this, there's no reason to limit the quality of other browsers, chrome has the Encrypted Media Extensions, which is the DRM that is used for high quality Netflix videos yet Chrome is blocked from watching it. And yes, 720p is unusable if you are paying for 1080p, if people pay for something they should get it don't you think?
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