T-Mobile store employee with concealed carry license shoots 2 armed robbery suspects (Chicago) - Polidicks

I didn't think T-Mobile was so desperate for customer satisfaction

[QUOTE=cody8295;49526684]I've been told by friends who work in retail that they're told to follow the directions of robbers and specifically not to attempt to stop them.[/QUOTE] This tactic is much more likely to end without casualties than a firefight.

[QUOTE=croguy;49528329]I didn't think T-Mobile was so desperate for customer satisfaction[/QUOTE] A shot in the nads, and full care at the beautiful Stroger hospital. TMobile is really stepping up their game.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;49528465]A shot in the nads, and full care at the beautiful Stroger hospital. TMobile is really stepping up their game.[/QUOTE] Yeah back in the day they'd do that with sheets of contract paper and boxes of mediocre phones. And without a hospital.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;49527224]I'm one of those guys you're talking about, I'm pretty sure. Loss Prevention. I proactively catch shoplifters and we prosecute them. The CCW I have is not for this job, it's for myself. I'm never going to shoot a shoplifter, that's retarded but I need to state that because that's the first thing people assume when I say I carry at my job. Well, unless the guy had me on the ground and was stabbing me or beating me to death. Than maybe I would. But if they pull a weapon, I just let them go and send the PD after them. Primarily I have it on me for going to and from work, like in the parking lot at night when getting in my truck or in the unlikely event there is an active shooter. And even if the store I worked for was robbed or I was a witness to a robbery I'd be very hesitant about drawing that gun. I'm more on the side of 'let the insurance handle it' I really don't want to have to shoot someone, but I'm willing to in defense of my life or another life. If they want the money, they should take it and run. But if I feel out the situation and I think they may start killing people or taking us hostage I'm not going to let that happen without a fight. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] It's doesn't scare me in the least. It's just an item like your cellphone or car keys. No one has ever found out I had it unless I explicitly told them. I wear it in an ankle-holster and when I leave work for the night I put it into a holster I keep in my waistband encase someone tries to kill me for my car or something. And ultimately I rather get fired than to be killed because I didn't have it. I was at work when I posted but I'll elaborate without going into detail. We had a black out at my work one night. I guess you could describe the area I work in as "the ghetto" but I don't think it's that bad. Either way, everyone lost their mind and I had to stay at the store all night until the power came back on or we got another guard out there to be on night watch. I left the store to drop off an associate and came back, the Manager wasn't waiting at the door so while I was waiting for him to let me in some guy came over to me and asked me if I had the keys to the store, if I had a car, if I knew what the crime index for the area was and than asked me if I thought I had an angel with me tonight. I don't know what he was planning but I went into my waistband and put my hand on my gun, I didn't draw but he saw me do it and when I started to issue him commands and shine my flashlight at him he finally got discouraged and took off. I called the PD and it took them like 20 minutes to get there since the blackout was bringing out the worst in people. The power had been out for like two hours by that point and people were going around breaking into stores and robbing people. If I didn't have my gun I don't know what would have happened, but because I had it I was able to avoid any conflict and if he had decided to attack me or something the Police would've been 20 minutes too late. (Assuming I could even manage to call them) And I'll point this out; If you have to use it and it's a good shot than most likely people will praise you. You just have to be comfortable with your weapon and know what you're shooting at and what is behind it. If that guy had drawn and accidentally struck an innocent person this thread would be full of people calling him a cowboy and calling for his incarceration. In the video you can see that T-Mobile had this sign outside: [t]https://i.gyazo.com/af25ed0c8e6a4bf9d5a83d6e3842c005.png[/t] Notice that sign didn't stop those armed robbers from coming in there to do what they did. Nor did it stop a law-abiding citizen from being disarmed. It's just a sign and at the end of the day if you made a good shot, did the right thing the worst that will happen to you is you will get fired. You can't be charged criminally for carrying in a "Gun Free Zone" unless it's a Federal or State facility place like a School or something. Carried by six or judged by twelve, as the saying goes.[/QUOTE] Wow, crazy story. Glad you made out safely dude.

How great someone got shot in the balls in what might just have ended up with some stolen money and phones. Sometimes robberies evolve into murder, but I doubt they do most of the time. I respect that people have the right to defend themselves, but guns can also be a great way to escalate a situation into something worse. Good thing nobody died.

Tbh, even if I could, I don't think it'd be a good idea to bring a gun to a job. If a small crime that really doesn't matter at the end of the day is occuring, I think it better to just let it happen than escalate it and risk death. If someone's mugging me and is trying to take my wallet, it's his unless I'm in a very good situation, e.g., a very public place with people around. At the end of the day, I probably haven't even lost much, just am very inconvenienced since I have to cancel my cards, and get new ones. Wallet wouldn't be worth dying for, and neither would some phones. Robbers typically aren't interested in hurting you, just in taking what you have.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;49528873]Tbh, even if I could, I don't think it'd be a good idea to bring a gun to a job. If a small crime that really doesn't matter at the end of the day is occuring, I think it better to just let it happen than escalate it and risk death. If someone's mugging me and is trying to take my wallet, it's his unless I'm in a very good situation, e.g., a very public place with people around. At the end of the day, I probably haven't even lost much, just am very inconvenienced since I have to cancel my cards, and get new ones. Wallet wouldn't be worth dying for, and neither would some phones. Robbers typically aren't interested in hurting you, just in taking what you have.[/QUOTE] Lol you think risking death is better than protecting yourself?

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49529122]Lol you think risking death is better than protecting yourself?[/QUOTE] It's a complex situation. When you bring out your gun, you are putting yourself in a position where you become the target. You also need to aim that thing and make sure you don't shoot anyone else. In most situations they want the money and to get out - they're not going to actually shoot anyone. This is the rationale for not pulling out the gun until it's essential for protecting life.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49529122]Lol you think risking death is better than protecting yourself?[/QUOTE] So as soon as you have a gun you're [I]not[/I] risking death? Having a gun in a firefight is a good idea, drawing your gun and starting a firefight isn't [I]necessarily[/I] a good idea - in a situation where they would shoot you regardless (probably the minority of robberies but that's just a guess) it's great to have one to protect yourself. In a situation where the robbers don't actually intend to shoot anybody, you're simply putting yourself in danger by shooting at them.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49529179]It's a complex situation. When you bring out your gun, you are putting yourself in a position where you become the target. You also need to aim that thing and make sure you don't shoot anyone else. In most situations they want the money and to get out - they're not going to actually shoot anyone. This is the rationale for not pulling out the gun until it's essential for protecting life.[/QUOTE] But you're acting as if someone willing to commit a robbery doesn't know full well that they are heightening their risk for death/incarceration/injury by 100 times when they do it. If they are willing to rob someone and risk their life for paper that means something, they are gonna be mentally able to injure/kill you if they want to avoid getting caught.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49529195]So as soon as you have a gun you're [I]not[/I] risking death? Having a gun in a firefight is a good idea, drawing your gun and starting a firefight isn't [I]necessarily[/I] a good idea - in a situation where they would shoot you regardless (probably the minority of robberies but that's just a guess) it's great to have one to protect yourself. In a situation where the robbers don't actually intend to shoot anybody, you're simply putting yourself in danger by shooting at them.[/QUOTE] You're also risking everyone else's lives and sanity too, because if you get shot, now they're murderers. Now the stakes for them are higher. There's witnesses. There's gunshots, meaning at police are probably going to be called. That also goes without saying that you don't have to miss in order to cause collateral damage - they can very easily kill others on accident when trying to shoot you. It's an escalation that you don't want to create for all kinds of reasons. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49529208]But you're acting as if someone willing to commit a robbery doesn't know full well that they are heightening their risk for death/incarceration by 100 times when they do it. If they are willing to rob someone and risk their life for paper that means something, [B]they are gonna be mentally able to injure/kill you if they want to avoid getting caught[/B].[/QUOTE] That's not always true. It's situational and also depends on the person.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49529212]You're also risking everyone else's lives and sanity too, because if you get shot, now they're murderers. Now the stakes for them are higher. There's witnesses. There's gunshots, meaning at police are probably going to be called. That also goes without saying that you don't have to miss in order to cause collateral damage - they can very easily kill others on accident when trying to shoot you. It's an escalation that you don't want to create for all kinds of reasons. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] That's not always true. It's situational and also depends on the person.[/QUOTE] For the most part, if someone is willing to "fake" threaten your life (which may not be a real threat for them, but VERY real for you) for paper that means something. You're not gonna be in the position to know what the robber is gonna do when you're on the receiving end. Ofcourse not every robber is gonna kill you for money, but how in the hell are you going to know that when you're unarmed on the receiving end of threats?

[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49529208]But you're acting as if someone willing to commit a robbery doesn't know full well that they are heightening their risk for death/incarceration/injury by 100 times when they do it. If they are willing to rob someone and risk their life for paper that means something, they are gonna be mentally able to injure/kill you if they want to avoid getting caught.[/QUOTE] If robbers knew they probably wouldn't meet armed people, do you think they would waste money arming themselves and prepare to kill at all? Here in Denmark the majority of robberies are done with knives, no one gets hurt and the money is insured, so beyond the scare there really isn't any major damage. I think that's partly because when the common man can't run around with a gun, the criminals aren't going to go out of their way to arm themselves. Robbery really isn't a crime where [I]anyone[/I] should get hurt, and I think the US has got themselves in a situation where it's way more likely to happen simply because of the lax gun laws. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49529237]For the most part, if someone is willing to "fake" threaten your life (which may not be a real threat for them, but VERY real for you) for paper that means something. You're not gonna be in the position to know what the robber is gonna do when you're on the receiving end. Ofcourse not every robber is gonna kill you for money, but how in the hell are you going to know that when you're unarmed on the receiving end of threats?[/QUOTE] At that point you're just defending the principle of defending yourself (which I respect, honestly). I believe fewer people would get killed in the end, though, and to be honest that's thing that I ([I]personally[/I]) think is most important. It's not like self-defense has a 100% success rate, and it's hard to say how many lives it saves when you can't know how many situations it ended up escalating.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49529195]So as soon as you have a gun you're [I]not[/I] risking death? Having a gun in a firefight is a good idea, drawing your gun and starting a firefight isn't [I]necessarily[/I] a good idea - in a situation where they would shoot you regardless (probably the minority of robberies but that's just a guess) it's great to have one to protect yourself. In a situation where the robbers don't actually intend to shoot anybody, you're simply putting yourself in danger by shooting at them.[/QUOTE] If someone's robbing me with a weapon and I have a weapon, I'm going to use it. I've been robbed before and I was under 21 so I couldn't carry (even if it was legal to carry in Maryland.) Fucking terrifying.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49529241]If robbers knew they probably wouldn't meet armed people, do you think they would waste money arming themselves and prepare to kill at all? Here in Denmark the majority of robberies are done with knives, no one gets hurt and the money is insured, so beyond the scare there really isn't any major damage. I think that's partly because when the common man can't run around with a gun, the criminals aren't going to go out of their way to arm themselves. Robbery really isn't a crime where [I]anyone[/I] should get hurt, and I think the US has got themselves in a situation where it's way more likely to happen simply because of the lax gun laws.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna be perfectly honest, it may not make sense but I'm more afraid of being mugged with a knife then a gun. A stabbing is so much more of a personal injury IMO, but ofcourse a gun is more dangerous in general. It might be a longshot; but I'd go as far to say a robber would be much more willing to use a knife to injure you in a mugging over shooting a gun at you. Sadly I can't know how every robber would react. I guess one big part of my defense goes against what you said particularly "majority of robberies are done with knives, no one gets hurt and the money is insured, so beyond the scare there really isn't any major damage." I've always had a problem with accepting the fear when you have the ability to take a stand against it; but I realize how that can sound immature because of the risks that go into play. You're right that in the scenario of 1 armed victim and 1 armed mugger there is much more chance for either side to get injured or killed when on your example there wasn't any violence except for the scare. But that is still just a case of the robber not doing anything when he/she could, (not that you would be able to know if you'd actually get stabbed when you give the mugger all your things)

I'm not against people owning guns, but if I saw someone carrying one around in public, I'd be pretty uncomfortable. I don't know if you're a loon that's about to snap or if you're a trained professional.

[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;49529465]I'm not against people owning guns, but if I saw someone carrying one around in public, I'd be pretty uncomfortable. I don't know if you're a loon that's about to snap or if you're a trained professional.[/QUOTE] The majority of states don't have open carry for handguns.

[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;49529465]I'm not against people owning guns, but if I saw someone carrying one around in public, I'd be pretty uncomfortable. I don't know if you're a loon that's about to snap or if you're a trained professional.[/QUOTE] yeah If I ever get one I'm only doing concealed. I wouldn't feel comfortable myself having open carry unless I was a cop

[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49529483]yeah If I ever get one I'm only doing concealed. I wouldn't feel comfortable myself having open carry unless I was a cop[/QUOTE] Yeah open carry is stupid. It makes you a target for theft of your gun by a criminal. Unless you have a sturdy holster that can't be unbuttoned easy.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49526353]I seriously wonder why anti gun people blatantly ignore stories like this. Guns fucking save lives (of innocent people).[/QUOTE] Probably because it's the exception and not the rule. Guns kill and wound far more people than they save each year. And more people are harmed in unintentional shootings each year than saved in self-defense. Both of which pale in comparison to suicide and homicides by guns. [URL="http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/"]Here are some conclusions drawn from studies on these issues if you're interested in reading more about it[/URL].

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49529241]If robbers knew they probably wouldn't meet armed people, do you think they would waste money arming themselves and prepare to kill at all? Here in Denmark the majority of robberies are done with knives, no one gets hurt and the money is insured, so beyond the scare there really isn't any major damage. I think that's partly because when the common man can't run around with a gun, the criminals aren't going to go out of their way to arm themselves. Robbery really isn't a crime where [I]anyone[/I] should get hurt, and I think the US has got themselves in a situation where it's way more likely to happen simply because of the lax gun laws. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] At that point you're just defending the principle of defending yourself (which I respect, honestly). I believe fewer people would get killed in the end, though, and to be honest that's thing that I ([I]personally[/I]) think is most important. It's not like self-defense has a 100% success rate, and it's hard to say how many lives it saves when you can't know how many situations it ended up escalating.[/QUOTE] a lot of logical jumps and faulty comparisons here. you can't say for certain the mentality of an average criminal, nor should you try to umbrella entire criminal culture based off of a single subsection of a country's laws and how they relate to others'

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49526782]Breaking rules at an hourly job is pretty insignificant compared to what your life is worth.[/QUOTE] I'm kinda surprised his life wasn't lost to the armed robbers.. How could he even pull his gun when a gun was already pulled on him? Unless of course, the robbers weren't determined to use their weapons in the least, which seems to be the case. No clear video tho., which I'm not going to search for either, nor am I sure any video exists. Also as a direct "Counter-Argument" to that post: some hundreds of dollars from a company-insured cash register is also pretty insignificant to what your life is worth.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49529490]Yeah open carry is stupid. It makes you a target for theft of your gun by a criminal. Unless you have a sturdy holster that can't be unbuttoned easy.[/QUOTE] If I [I]ever[/I] decice to open carry, its with a level 3 holster and nothing less. Preferably I'd like to conceal carry if I can, but I'm not at the point yet where I'm comfortable even entertaining the thought of carrying in public.

[QUOTE=stupid10er;49529679][B]a lot of logical jumps and faulty comparisons here.[/B] you can't say for certain the mentality of an average criminal, nor should you try to umbrella entire criminal culture based off of a single subsection of a country's laws and how they relate to others'[/QUOTE] Such as? I can't say anything for certain; it's for people like you that I put in all my "I believe... I think... [I]personally[/I]..." - as I don't have any statistics on hand, I just wanted to put my opinion out there. Personally I think it's internally logically coherent, but you can prove me wrong, I guess. [editline]14th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49529307]I'm gonna be perfectly honest, it may not make sense but I'm more afraid of being mugged with a knife then a gun. A stabbing is so much more of a personal injury IMO, but ofcourse a gun is more dangerous in general. It might be a longshot; but I'd go as far to say a robber would be much more willing to use a knife to injure you in a mugging over shooting a gun at you. Sadly I can't know how every robber would react. I guess one big part of my defense goes against what you said particularly "majority of robberies are done with knives, no one gets hurt and the money is insured, so beyond the scare there really isn't any major damage." I've always had a problem with accepting the fear when you have the ability to take a stand against it; but I realize how that can sound immature because of the risks that go into play. You're right that in the scenario of 1 armed victim and 1 armed mugger there is much more chance for either side to get injured or killed when on your example there wasn't any violence except for the scare. But that is still just a case of the robber not doing anything when he/she could, (not that you would be able to know if you'd actually get stabbed when you give the mugger all your things)[/QUOTE] A gun wound seems "cleaner" for some reason, I agree, but they're probably not and the statistics say you're way more likely to die. As I said, I understand why people think it's important to be able to defend yourself, and I respect that (as I wrote in my other post as well) - I probably wouldn't like being at the mercy of a robber myself. Still, I believe there is pretty good chance that the risk of escalation that follows self-defense generally leads to more harm than good.

In a lot of states there are no self defense laws, or atleast in favor of the defendant. In Maryland, at least, if I'm being robbed and pull a gun I can get in as much, or worse, trouble than the perps.

Glad that no costumers got injured but If I was just going about my business shopping and the store I was in was being robbed the last thing I would want is some self-proclaimed hero turning a stick-up into a fucking firefight. Just give them the damn register, no need to put innocent bystanders in even more danger than they were in to begin with

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49526353]I seriously wonder why anti gun people blatantly ignore stories like this. Guns fucking save lives (of innocent people).[/QUOTE] I don't believe that it necessarily "saved" anyone's life in this case. As long as the employees complied with the robbers demands there would likely have been no injuries in the first place. And yeah there is the chance that the thieves would have shot the two employees after the robbery but it's not very likely. The robbers just want cash, not murder charges.

[QUOTE=Chocolate.;49529977]I don't believe that it necessarily "saved" anyone's life in this case. As long as the employees complied with the robbers demands there would likely have been no injuries in the first place. And yeah there is the chance that the thieves would have shot the two employees after the robbery but it's not very likely. The robbers just want cash, not murder charges.[/QUOTE] You don't know any of that for certain. When my life is potentially in danger, I'd rather protect myself instead die.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49530046]You don't know any of that for certain. When my life is potentially in danger, I'd rather protect myself instead die.[/QUOTE] I definitely get the "decide your own fate" element, but being armed while being robbed makes you 4 times more likely to die than not being armed. Put simply, if you pull a gun on someone who is already pointing a gun at you and is willing to use it you will almost certainly be shot. If you do manage to shoot the robber it's probably down to them not being willing to shoot rather than you being faster. The right plays up cases where an armed person fends off robbers, but the left doesn't really bring attention to people being killed in spite of being armed (or because of being armed) so you get a distorted picture over the effectiveness of CCW in saving lives.