[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841081]How am I a racist exactly? I don't like immigration because our immigration policy sucks, I don't care who comes into my country as long as they have skills that are useful to my country, rather than abusing the free healthcare system, and that's not even my main problem, as I have said multiple times in this thread, I stand against Self-harming de-evololutionists.[/QUOTE]
The very basis of the healthcare system is that it's available for all those who need it. Looking at it and going "I don't want these people who come to my country to be able to benefit from it" is pretty asinine.
[QUOTE=Megafan;35841246]The very basis of the healthcare system is that it's available for all those who need it. Looking at it and going "I don't want these people who come to my country to be able to benefit from it" is pretty asinine.[/QUOTE]
Except our economy is shit, and people abusing the system while at the same time abusing welfare is a huge problem, and it costs the taxpayers a lot of money. I'm ok with people using our free healthcare if they are contributing, but when people come here and abuse it.. well... it just sucks...
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841103]I already changed my political title so people can stop blatenly ignoring my personal beliefs and jumping straight into the "YOUR RACIST" 'argument'
And I don't want races to be involved in my political policies.[/QUOTE]
Somehow i don't see the judgement of someone who had self-identified as a fascist two hours ago as being trustworthy in any case
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35840028]No, simply stating that the abundant use of swearing simply removes from the validity of your argument in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
What is with total toads and having no-cussing fetishes? I'd really like to know.
Edit: That's insulting to toads, toads are awesome.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35840028]Self-harming de-evololutionists.[/quote]
What the merry ape fuck is this supposed to mean?
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841271]Except our economy is shit, and people abusing the system while at the same time abusing welfare is a huge problem, and it costs the taxpayers a lot of money. I'm ok with people using our free healthcare if they are contributing, but when people come here and abuse it.. well... it just sucks...[/QUOTE]
It seems like your idea of someone 'abusing the system' is just the fact that they're on it in the first place. I suppose if someone on welfare is using welfare money for food or anything at all that involves recreation it would seem like abuse (to a fascist), but the whole reason someone is on welfare in the first place is because they can't afford to live on their own income, so it's a pointless criticism.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841271]Except our economy is shit, and people abusing the system while at the same time abusing welfare is a huge problem, and it costs the taxpayers a lot of money. I'm ok with people using our free healthcare if they are contributing, but when people come here and abuse it.. well... it just sucks...[/QUOTE]
I guess you also believe that the police should let people beat immigrants up as well, we don't want those damn foreigners abusing our police system by using it for free!
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841271]Except our economy is shit, and people abusing the system while at the same time abusing welfare is a huge problem, and it costs the taxpayers a lot of money. I'm ok with people using our free healthcare if they are contributing, but when people come here and abuse it.. well... it just sucks...[/QUOTE]
So basically you just hate immigrants.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841081]How am I a racist exactly? I don't like immigration because our immigration policy sucks, I don't care who comes into my country as long as they have skills that are useful to my country, rather than abusing the free healthcare system, and that's not even my main problem, as I have said multiple times in this thread, I stand against Self-harming de-evololutionists.[/QUOTE]
I meant you [I]would[/I] be a racist if you were against immigration solely for the fact that you disliked other races.
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;35841538]I meant you [I]would[/I] be a racist if you were against immigration solely for the fact that you disliked other races.[/QUOTE]
That's what it usually boils down to. This "they're sapping our health care!" and "they're a burden on our society!" bullshit is a bunch of unfounded rationalizations with no backing evidence and no rationale.
Unless he'd like to prove how badly immigration hurts his country, his judgement against them is racially based and not factually based.
Which country is he from?
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35841029]You cited the worst three examples to make a claim fascism isn't rightward, considering British Fascism can be summarized "conservationism done wrong", Falangism immediately collapsed into "conservatism done wrong", and Peronism was just a clusterfuck.[/QUOTE]
They were not cited for that reason; they were cited to show that there is a great deal of diversity to be had with Fascism and its unique ideological variations therein.
British Fascism was not even composed of a single group or party; there were literally dozens of them running around, like the BUF, National Fascisti, BEU, IFL, NSL, New Party, etc. So why you would even attempt to summarize them all as being "Conservatism done wrong" is beyond me; they all had different beliefs and opinions on what policies the nation should adopt.
Falangism was focused around a more centrist restructuring of Spain's economy, society, and political system. Their Twenty-Seven Points manifesto highlighted that they wanted to do one thing: initiate a social revolution, with the aims of establishing a single-party authoritarian state maintaining some basic democratic principles (what they dubbed "organic democracy"), a National Syndicalist state socialist economy (officially rejecting both Capitalism and Communism), and a classless society centered around the principles of "unity and cooperation". You're thinking of the clusterfuck it became after it was mashed up with Francoism; beforehand, it was center-right.
Peronism was just out to reform Argentina's economy to resemble a more Fascist/Corporatist one and was pretty well left of center. It was anti-imperialist, anti-racist, anti-clericalist (and pursued other such humanist policies with regards to immigration), maintained a somewhat isolationist foreign policy but would cooperate with others on occasion, and made no attempts to establish a single-party state.
You know what, this isn't an argument any more as much as people just claiming I'm a racist without really understanding my points.
I mean seriously, I'm here stating my points fairly, being open to all opinions on the matter, and the best comebacks I have seen so far have been "Your fucking racist (Cue joke here) and your stupid you idiot twelve year old idiot and all fascists are nazis and should be put to death because thats not ironic at all and even though you say your something else I'm going to keep calling you the same thing"
Its like when orthidox Christians say to unorthidox Christians "ALL THE THINGS YOU BELIEVE IN ARE WRONG BECAUSE I WAS RAISED ORTHIDOX AND THAT MEANS YOUR POINT IS NULL AND VOID"
There is no argument here, just people bashing people that are different than them, more irony I suppose...
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841678]You know what, this isn't an argument any more as much as people just claiming I'm a racist without really understanding my points.
I mean seriously, I'm here stating my points fairly, being open to all opinions on the matter, and the best comebacks I have seen so far have been "Your fucking racist (Cue joke here) and your stupid you idiot twelve year old idiot and all fascists are nazis and should be put to death because thats not ironic at all and even though you say your something else I'm going to keep calling you the same thing"
Its like when orthidox Christians say to unorthidox Christians "ALL THE THINGS YOU BELIEVE IN ARE WRONG BECAUSE I WAS RAISED ORTHIDOX AND THAT MEANS YOUR POINT IS NULL AND VOID"
There is no argument here, just people bashing people that are different than them, more irony I suppose...[/QUOTE]
No body said they wanted to put you to death, talk about a persecution complex.
thanks capitalism, breeding fascists!
the irony is palpable
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;35841711]No body said they wanted to put you to death, talk about a persecution complex.[/QUOTE]
Post #103
I should be "Lynched" for my opinion.
As a resident of Hungary, I can say that Eastern Europe is experiencing an increase in radicalism and far-right parties. We have Jobbik (The "Better", The "Right") here, they pretty much said that gypsies, jews and rich people are causing all the problems of this country and that they will make sure only "real Christian pure-breed Hungarians" will get the jobs. It's fucking scary these people got into the Parliament. They got almost 20% of the votes in the last election.
They are directly linked with the organization that was pretty much racist vigilante neighborhood watch (it was disbanded a 1-2 years ago). This very same organization is connected to the Gypsy serial murderers who killed 5 people with cold-blood (they busted in a house, made the whole family get on the floor and shot them in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun one-by-one), set houses on fire while people were sleeping inside and blocked chimneys in the middle of winter, this resulted in many carbon monoxide poisonings.
[editline]6th May 2012[/editline]
If they get into coalition with another party, their chances are really high in winning the next election. If that happens, I am moving out of the country.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35841605]They were not cited for that reason; they were cited to show that there is a great deal of diversity to be had with Fascism and its unique ideological variations therein.[/QUOTE]
Let's back up.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35840016]mate you can't be a moderate fascist
fascism is a radical far-right ideology, it's pretty stark. that's like saying you are moderately dead.[/QUOTE]
This is a claim fascism is far-right and that moderate fascists cannot exist.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35841605]When it comes to political ideologies, you can pretty much be whatever you want to be. Nothing is set in stone.[/QUOTE]
This is a claim moderate fascists can exist.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35841605]This is especially true of Fascism because of how difficult it is to properly place on the conventional left/right spectrum. It's radical, that's true, but it's not really far-right and it's not really far-left; it borrows from both sides of the spectrum to the point where it becomes a revolutionary centrist ideology.[/QUOTE]
This is a claim fascism is not inherently far right.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35841605]There's many other variations of the classical ideology (which was founded by the National Syndicalists) as well which are each unique in their own right (British Fascism, Falangism, Peronism, etc.). You're thinking of Italian Fascism, it sounds like. It's certainly the most well-known and infamous of the lot.[/QUOTE]
This is, I am assuming, your evidence.
If you're telling me this interpretation of your post is wrong then I have nothing to say to you, because you're discussing the nuances of fascism on a complete non sequitur.
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841789]Post #103
I should be "Lynched" for my opinion.[/QUOTE]
He very explicitly stated that his post was an example of a type of behavior, you're taking it literally. Selectively taking it literally to boot.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841789]Post #103
I should be "Lynched" for my opinion.[/QUOTE]
He was saying that as an example of what fascism is.
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;35839877]I don't respect yours.
You should be lynched for yours.
This is how fascism works, jackass. You don't get to have an opinion.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35841823]Let's back up.
This is a claim fascism is far-right and that moderate fascists cannot exist.
This is a claim moderate fascists can exist.
This is a claim fascism is not inherently far right.
This is, I am assuming, your evidence.
If you're telling me this interpretation of your post is wrong then I have nothing to say to you, because you're discussing the nuances of fascism on a complete non sequitur.[/QUOTE]
Your interpretation is correct. Though this post:
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35841605]They were not cited for that reason; they were cited to show that there is a great deal of diversity to be had with Fascism and its unique ideological variations therein.
British Fascism was not even composed of a single group or party; there were literally dozens of them running around, like the BUF, National Fascisti, BEU, IFL, NSL, New Party, etc. So why you would even attempt to summarize them all as being "Conservatism done wrong" is beyond me; they all had different beliefs and opinions on what policies the nation should adopt.
Falangism was focused around a more centrist restructuring of Spain's economy, society, and political system. Their Twenty-Seven Points manifesto highlighted that they wanted to do one thing: initiate a social revolution, with the aims of establishing a single-party authoritarian state maintaining some basic democratic principles (what they dubbed "organic democracy"), a National Syndicalist state socialist economy (officially rejecting both Capitalism and Communism), and a classless society centered around the principles of "unity and cooperation". You're thinking of the clusterfuck it became after it was mashed up with Francoism; beforehand, it was center-right.
Peronism was just out to reform Argentina's economy to resemble a more Fascist/Corporatist one and was pretty well left of center. It was anti-imperialist, anti-racist, anti-clericalist (and pursued other such humanist policies with regards to immigration), maintained a somewhat isolationist foreign policy but would cooperate with others on occasion, and made no attempts to establish a single-party state.[/QUOTE]
Was also evidence that Fascism is not inherently far-right, is extremely diverse, and can in fact be centrist; ergo, with all three in mind, it [i]can[/i] be moderate.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841789]Post #103
I should be "Lynched" for my opinion.[/QUOTE]
hey look who can't pick up on a theme
[QUOTE=Lambeth;35829098]Sparta was pretty much the first fascist state.[/QUOTE]
Only without the totalitarianism, and they were actually more tolerant than, say, Athens.
[editline]6th May 2012[/editline]
So not really fascist at all.
[editline]6th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;35839634]dont stop
belieeeevin
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
hold on to that
feelin[/QUOTE]
Well the racialist aspects of Nazism [i]were[/i] a significant difference to the regimes in Italy and Spain...
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35842027]Well the racialist aspects of Nazism [I]were[/I] a significant difference to the regimes in Italy and Spain...[/QUOTE]
The Nazis went much further when it came to racism, for sure, but the Italian regime was also fairly racist. The whole idea of "Italianization" is based on the idea of Italians being superior to other ethnicities. If you weren't Italian, you were a second class citizen at best. It didn't incorporate the racial purity aspects of the Nazis, a non-Italian could make an oath to Mussolini and "become" an Italian, but it was still racist.
Spain I haven't read up on enough.
hey heres an idea: lets just get rid of economics, politics, all these classifications like 'socialism' 'nazism' 'communism' 'fascism' and just do what keeps the most people alive, happy, creative and dreaming with all the technology and wasted resources we have.
[QUOTE=Bobie;35842404]hey heres an idea: lets just get rid of economics, politics, all these classifications like 'socialism' 'nazism' 'communism' 'fascism' and just do what keeps the most people alive, happy, creative and dreaming with all the technology and wasted resources we have.[/QUOTE]
a few societies tried to do that in history
their civilizations were razed and their people butchered and raped.
[QUOTE=Bobie;35842404]hey heres an idea: lets just get rid of economics, politics, all these classifications like 'socialism' 'nazism' 'communism' 'fascism' and just do what keeps the most people alive, happy, creative and dreaming with all the technology and wasted resources we have.[/QUOTE]
Get rid of all established order? What a novel idea!
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;35842447]Get rid of all established order? What a novel idea![/QUOTE]
ask yourself, what is established order? do you have control over your actions? do you believe that democracy will last forever? look at countries like bolivia, columbia, afghanistan. they have an 'established order' in a majority voting system and an economic structure, would you say they have 'established order'? look at your country's prisons. are they filled to the brim with murderers, rapists, and various other kinds of serious criminals? why do they exist in an 'established order'? why does your country feel the need to go to war with others when the world exists in 'established order'?
please don't throw these cliches at me. its almost an insult
ITT: people pissing on the rising popularity of fascism while simultaneously presuming people know what's best for them.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Meme Reply" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Cheezy;35842679]ITT: people pissing on the rising popularity of fascism while simultaneously presuming people know what's best for them.[/QUOTE]
and i assume you know more than the average person, yes?
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
Here's a thought none of the fascists here have considered:
What the fuck do you think is going to happen to video games under a fascist regime?
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35840028]No, simply stating that the abundant use of swearing simply removes from the validity of your argument in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Fuck that. You're on a internet forum, not in some high school classroom.
[QUOTE='[IT] Zodiac;35834379']No, they are not. Stop using terms you don't understand to describe situations you weren't in.
Sparta was an oligarchic free city, controlled by a small elected circle of the oldest citizens called γερουσία, two kings and a popolar "parliament" called Απέλλα.
I know, we're on the internet, so it's not like you actually have to think before you spew bs, but seriously? Comparing Sparta and Fascism just because in both world there was discrimination? Are you freaking high or something? Don't you know it's the most important principle in storiography not to judge or study the past based on your modern perception of reality?
You should really try to say out loud what you're about to write.[/QUOTE]
First of all, I was replying to a post made by another person. It was not my idea. Secondly, this argument makes no sense because Sparta's governmental system changed dramatically during different points in its history. And thirdly, Sparta was used as an example for fascism by fascists throughout history.
I also fail to see how my post, even if it was incorrect, would identify me as high. By that logic, anyone who makes a mistake in anything would be high.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;35840046]Well, the Irish were slaves long before the Africans.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck? What? When? Where?
If you're talking about indentured servitude, I guess you could get away with calling that slavery, but you are so incredibly wrong if you think that was the first time slavery was used. Native Americans were first used, then blacks, then when more and more people moved to the Americas, indentured servitude became one of the only ways for poor people to immigrate.
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