[QUOTE=Bobie;35842404]hey heres an idea: lets just get rid of economics, politics, all these classifications like 'socialism' 'nazism' 'communism' 'fascism' and just do what keeps the most people alive, happy, creative and dreaming with all the technology and wasted resources we have.[/QUOTE]
Economics is how you distribute resources, how the hell can you get rid of it?
[QUOTE=Bobie;35842404]hey heres an idea: lets just get rid of economics, politics, all these classifications like 'socialism' 'nazism' 'communism' 'fascism' and just do what keeps the most people alive, happy, creative and dreaming with all the technology and wasted resources we have.[/QUOTE]
Talk about a bad idea. You're saying that we should get rid of civilization. Getting rid of economics and politics requires moving back to hunter gatherer type societies.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35841823]
This is a claim fascism is far-right and that moderate fascists cannot exist.
[/QUOTE]
to add validity to my bullshit claim, i do think i'm in the right when i say that fascism, being radical and reactionary by definition of its ideology, cannot be moderate.
for instance, on the flip-side moderate communism doesn't exist either. you either think society should be classless and stateless or not. this is different from being liberal because liberal doesn't have a clear line in the sand, you can just generally think economic and social freedom is a good thing and still be a liberal.
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35842027]Only without the totalitarianism[/QUOTE]
you couldn't be a citizen without being part of the military which declares you an active fighter for the state.
that's pretty totalitarian.
saying there is moderate fascism is like saying there's moderate terrorism
people blowing themselves up because they sort-of think they're doing the right thing but they have an open mind about it.
does not fucking exist. There is a certain threshold of not giving a shit about other people and human rights that must be crossed to achieve that sort of ideology.
I am a moderate extremist.
[editline]5th May 2012[/editline]
I am mildly annoying for the sake of the greater cause
Lord Jizzy Chrizzy look at all these people who don't know about fascism
I fucking spent 4 months studying Franco and Pinochet so please don't get up in my grill about the following:
[B]ECONOMY[/B]
Fascism is not a proper left right Dichotomy because it's not even on the spectrum in the modern sense of things. The system in use by proper Fascist countries is called Syndicalism, which is when the government creates a bunch of labor unions and then everyone has to join them and the government allows for companies to be privatized so long as they obey the laws and regulations placed by the Unions. This was supposed to prevent the exploitation by rich that sort of is inherent in any ideology that is all about getting disillusioned youth to join it without going the commie way of saying the government controls everything. All this stuff about labor unions might give you the hint that the Syndicalist system is really really heavily invested on the whole front of huge industry that takes a lot of bodies to do or at least it used to, and you'd be right, because this also happens to play heavily into the choices of the Military who wants this to militarize. This is where NAZIS and their group separates first. There was no national system of labor unions Hitler just decided randomly to seize and nationalize things that were of immediate use to him and leave other things alone. Socialism in a nutshell (:o oh jeeze there's the ZI in nazi)
[B]POLITICAL SYSTEMS[/B]
Fascism is the ultimate expession of singular power that is not paternal autocratic / dictatorial. One man can say and do anything that they want and that is basically it, no questions asked. S/He delegates power around because it's hard running a country by yourself but that doesn't mean that any of these people have any power beyond what little s/he decides to assign to these people for however long they are useful to him/her. The whole system is also usually very repressive because holding the contrary opinion is not being a patriot and not being a patriot is treason and that means death/reeducation. This is where Hitler falls in easily because oh jeeze he was a horrible person who seized power and then just ran with it but the problem with most Fascist governments are that they're a brokered piece between a military system and the civilian system they've overtaken so they have a tendency of being hilariously militarized even when they're totally peaceful (Spain, Italy).
[B]THE WHOLE IDEOLOGY THINGY THAT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT[/B]
[B][U]FASCIST SYSTEMS ARE INHERENTLY BIGOTED AGAINST SOMETHING.[/U][/B] This doesn't mean that they're racist at all though. Though it can come down to that the Fascist system (and the man who wrote the manifesto on fascism even admits it in this) needs some, any scapegoat to pin the country's ills upon. With Pinochet and Franco, it was the Commies (Pinochet also hated the poor though and Franco had a thing about atheists), with Mussolini it was the Royalists, and with Greece now it's the Immigrants. This whole thing of scapegoating is used to create a nationalist and usually X-centric system (supply your own X for your own purposes) that punishes these people and creates an environment where these people who the country hates and blames all of its ills upon are everywhere and these people must be destroyed. This doesn't actually have to be an opinion of anyone in the government and often it's just used as a way to force uniformity and a lack of thought upon people who would otherwise question or dissent against (people like living) the current government. This is why it's often really easy to get poor and disillusioned youths to join because they're just eager to get some sort of validation that their problems are not their fault, but it also can be used to get rich people (Pinochet) who are reactionary and don't like the way that change is going and want to undo it in the most extreme way possible.
No tldr because you're in a politic thread now read bitch
[QUOTE=thisispain;35843645]you couldn't be a citizen without being part of the military which declares you an active fighter for the state.
that's pretty totalitarian.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841678]You know what, this isn't an argument any more as much as people just claiming I'm a racist without really understanding my points.
I mean seriously, I'm here stating my points fairly, being open to all opinions on the matter, and the best comebacks I have seen so far have been "Your fucking racist (Cue joke here) and your stupid you idiot twelve year old idiot and all fascists are nazis and should be put to death because thats not ironic at all and even though you say your something else I'm going to keep calling you the same thing"
Its like when orthidox Christians say to unorthidox Christians "ALL THE THINGS YOU BELIEVE IN ARE WRONG BECAUSE I WAS RAISED ORTHIDOX AND THAT MEANS YOUR POINT IS NULL AND VOID"
There is no argument here, just people bashing people that are different than them, more irony I suppose...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lankist;35841556]
Unless he'd like to prove how badly immigration hurts his country, his judgement against them is racially based and not factually based.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35846647]No it isn't.[/QUOTE]
It kinda, is, don't people have the right to choose which fights they want to fight?
It's A okay if you trust your government and know that they make right decisions but pretty awful if you know that they are a bunch of dumbasses whose reasons aren't good enough.
Also faschism solely relies on some external threat or single cause to unify the people.
Greece is pretty bad, I've heard about neo nazi and anarcho communist clashes.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35846647]No it isn't.[/QUOTE]
hey tory crotch vacuum at least make it a paragraph with some reasoning involved. i can't respond to that, there's literally 0 content there.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35846792]hey tory crotch vacuum at least make it a paragraph with some reasoning involved. i can't respond to that, there's literally 0 content there.[/QUOTE]
Totalitarianism has nothing to do with citizenship. Totalitarianism is a system which goes beyond mere authoritarianism; it exacts its demands on every aspect of life in the state. It is best defined as it was by Gentile and Mussolini: "Nothing beyond the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside the state". A totalitarian state tells you what to think, what to feel, how to spend every waking minute of your life. It is corporatist - the government "works with" - that is, apart from in Germany, dictates to - both business and unions. More than that, however, totalitarianism demands compliance not through fear or force, as authoritarianism does, but through genuine love for the state. That was the ultimate goal of the fascisti and gestapo - a country that could not fathom a way of life different from what their Beloved Leader dictated, a country that did not need them.
So no, military-based citizenship is not totalitarianism.
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35841271]Except our economy is shit, and people abusing the system while at the same time abusing welfare is a huge problem, and it costs the taxpayers a lot of money. I'm ok with people using our free healthcare if they are contributing, but when people come here and abuse it.. well... it just sucks...[/QUOTE]
So it is okay to beat every none Greek with flag poles because a portion of immigrants abuse the system.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35848747]So it is okay to beat every none Greek with flag poles because a portion of immigrants abuse the system.[/QUOTE]
I wish the bad reading rating was still here.
[B]I live in Canada.[/B]
[QUOTE=flamehead5;35850276]I wish the bad reading rating was still here.
[B]I live in Canada.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wish the bad reading rating was still here.
[B]It does not change the fact you just said it was okay.[/B]
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;35850329]I wish the bad reading rating was still here.
[B]It does not change the fact you just said it was okay.[/B][/QUOTE]
Never once in this entire thread did I say I was fine with people in greece beating immigrants with the greek flag.
In fact, I haven't even used the work Greek, or even mentioned the Greek Nazis this entire thread, my argument has been about my political stance.
[B]I wish the bad reading rating was still here.
[/B]
(People then rate me dumb without replying or explaining why they think a factual statement is dumb)
I mean sure, the nazis were horrible and all, but man did those guys have a great sense of style. I mean the eagles, red, black and white, grand buildings... Somehow reminds me of ancient Rome.
But yeah this is bad and fascism sucks
Is Thessaloniki crawling with Communists like Crete is? Or is Thessaloniki more laid back new democracy and the like?
[QUOTE=gtanoofa;35850486]I am greek and i do not support these fucks. It's just dumbfucks and uneducated young men that don't even now that this organisation named "χρυσή αυγή" is actually a nazi party. I've read a newspaper they make every week and they talk about some really fucked up shit like "our goverment always tried to implement anti-racist views into school books to bring chaos and misery to "our" people" People mainly vote them because we are starting to fill with illegal immigrants that rob people on the streets because they wont be able to survive as there are almost no jobs left to take [b]this is happening in Athens, as in matter of fact i live in Thessaloniki the biggest city in Greece and all we have is chill jamaican dudes[/b]. I've heard that a big part of the city(Athens) turned into a ghetto with gangs,drugs, guns,whores and other stuff. If you want further details then ask me and i can anwser.[/QUOTE]
Considering that Athens has around ~40% of the Greek population that is rather worrying.
It's Germany all over again. It's basically what happens when a country gets buttfucked by the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=V12US;35852169]It's Germany all over again. It's basically what happens when a country gets buttfucked by the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
Its only 8%, there is no need to panic nor start up the jets...yet.
[QUOTE=Mythman;35852200]Its only 8%, there is no need to panic nor start up the jets...yet.[/QUOTE]
That's how fascism started in Germany as well. It tends to snowball.
Not that I'm implying a world war or some silly nonsense. It might devolve into a civil war, though.
[QUOTE=V12US;35852211]That's how fascism started in Germany as well. It tends to snowball.
Not that I'm implying a world war or some silly nonsense. It might devolve into a civil war, though.[/QUOTE]
Surely no one in the age of digital communications can repeat a dumb mistake like that.
[QUOTE=Tattimatonen;35850443]I mean sure, the nazis were horrible and all, but man did those guys have a great sense of style. I mean the eagles, red, black and white, grand buildings... Somehow reminds me of ancient Rome.[/QUOTE]
Really, Fascist propaganda-driven aesthetics reminds of Classical Antiquity? No fucking way!
[editline]6th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=mac338;35852411]Surely no one in the age of digital communications can repeat a dumb mistake like that.[/QUOTE]
"Historical people sure are dumb not like us :downs:"
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35852897]"Historical people sure are dumb not like us :downs:"[/QUOTE]
It's not like people can forget about the nazis. The sheer social stigma should hold it back, I think.
EDIT: I mean, after the Romans booted out their kings, the stigma for sole rulers lasted a good 500 years.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;35853104]It's not like people can forget about the nazis. The sheer social stigma should hold it back, I think.[/QUOTE]
But all of a sudden it's a faux pas to mention the nazis at all. Even when people are acting exactly like the goddamn nazis.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35853120][b]But all of a sudden it's a faux pas to mention the nazis at all.[/b] Even when people are acting exactly like the goddamn nazis.[/QUOTE]
Huh? Not exactly sure what you mean by that.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35852897]
"Historical people sure are dumb not like us :downs:"[/QUOTE]
If this is not true in your eyes, you're one of the single most uneducated people around. First lesson is not to repeat history.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;35853104]It's not like people can forget about the nazis. The sheer social stigma should hold it back, I think.
EDIT: I mean, after the Romans booted out their kings, the stigma for sole rulers lasted a good 500 years.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing about a totalitarian system though, it almost always stems from a charismatic leader. An authoritarian dictator keeps the people in line and out of government business through fear and intimidation, a totalitarian dictator uses their personality and charisma to convince the people to follow him, usually by establishing a scapegoat (as mentioned previously).
Nazism and fascism in general may have a stigma attached to it, but with people who are desperate to improve themselves, a charismatic leader could easily take advantage of the situation and convince the people that his course of action is right. Enough fascist states have been established throughout history to show this.
Though I do agree it would be much harder for a fascist state to establish itself in this day and age. I think globalization has played a part in that.
[QUOTE=Mythman;35852200]Its only 8%, there is no need to panic nor start up the jets...yet.[/QUOTE]
Germany only had 11% support.
[editline]6th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tattimatonen;35850443]I mean sure, the nazis were horrible and all, but man did those guys have a great sense of style. I mean the eagles, red, black and white, grand buildings... Somehow reminds me of ancient Rome.
But yeah this is bad and fascism sucks[/QUOTE]
That is what they were going for.
So far the Nazis are at 6,8% which is bad enough.
They are getting 21 seats in parliament.
[IMG]http://ap.mnocdn.no/incoming/article6822059.ece/ALTERNATES/w980c169/FS00026658.jpg[/IMG]
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