[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49587882]What the fuck are you even talking about? Care to cite that claim?[/QUOTE]Not a citation for the claim, but as a foreigner this is often the impression given by British people especially when they're trying to claim how backwards and stupid we are. I just really don't like most British people anymore because of that, Same thing for Australians.
[QUOTE=Jacam12SUX;49587966]your use of 'SJW' here doesn't even make sense. why is it such a boogeyman word to SH?[/QUOTE]
I couldn't think of another word for it, sorry.
It was done in the name of injustice towards the aboriginals by the government.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49587337]What do you mean by that? Legit curious as I'm sure Canada didn't treat its natives the same way the US did[/QUOTE]
some native reserves in canada are horrid.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49587996]Not a citation for the claim, but as a foreigner this is often the impression given by British people especially when they're trying to claim how backwards and stupid we are. I just really don't like most British people anymore because of that, Same thing for Australians.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I completely agree about the constant anti-Americanism that floods the UK and to an even greater extent continental Europe being absurd and unjustified. You'll find that I'm as reliably pro-American as a non-American can realistically get.
But that doesn't make what this guy is claiming true. These are unrelated points. Both societies try to address these issues and to say they don't is more or less a lie.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49587728]god forbid they have a law where people have to store their guns securely or something[/QUOTE]
Yes please, won't someone think of the children?
I was getting annoyed at the second paragraph, not the first.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49588122]Oh, I completely agree about the constant anti-Americanism that floods the UK and to an even greater extent continental Europe being absurd and unjustified. You'll find that I'm as reliably pro-American as a non-American can realistically get.
But that doesn't make what this guy is claiming true. These are unrelated points. Both societies try to address these issues and to say they don't is more or less a lie.[/QUOTE]I don't think he was saying that there isn't an official recognition but I believe GrizzlyBear was talking about the unofficial opinion of society. If you look it that the anti-American attitude isn't so different than the preconception of British superiority in all things and how the world was so much better with the Union Jack flying all over the place. I'd say the attitude toward "the colonials" (us) isn't at all different than the thinly veiled racism a surprising number of British people harbor.
Americans are far, far more willing to admit "yeah... lol we fucked up" in regards to basically the 18th and 19th centuries and even a majority of the 20th, we just really like to shout about the times when we were the good guys. That attitude really rubs Europeans the wrong way, especially when you have a country that has a collective guilt complex [I]to this day[/I] about some shit that happened in the 30's and 40's so it's not at all surprising. I suppose looking at the official reactions Germany is far, far more extreme than the US who sometimes still fucks over Native Americans when it comes to their land so maybe we're lagging behind when you examine that. (BLM readily violates treaty agreements under the guise of eminent domain, continuing a tradition dating back to the 1700's)
[editline]lmao[/editline]
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;49588225]Your gun rights are why this is a daily statistic in your country, and not the front-page news it rightfully is, as it is here. Keep your societally toxic political views to discussions of your own "valiant" nation.[/QUOTE]We've proven time and time again that it's not "a daily statistic" by any means, more people die from any number of mundane causes (much more than your plucky nation too, by the way) and any existing laws that are in place are largely unenforced or ineffective. It's media sensationalism that not only drives up the interest in this but indirectly encourages it as well, otherwise you wouldn't even be aware of this and if there was honesty in mainstream reporting they'd be constantly talking about how heart disease, diabetes, and drunk driving are far more of a killer than some shithead shooting up a school. If people were honestly, truly concerned about tackling societal issues they wouldn't be defending drunk driving or rationalizing other shitty, harmful behaviors. (you could see this in the Uber thread, dipshits go out on a holiday night and are somehow surprised by the higher rates)
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49587915]Another reasons Americans defend their gun rights so valiantly. The idea that I'm not allowed to be safe in my own home is horrible. Although that's just as much as the Government's attitude as well, like places where you're not allowed to defend yourself with weapons if the attacker doesn't have a weapon, or even not allowed to defend yourself [I]at all[/I] (duty to retreat laws).[/QUOTE]
Your gun rights are why this is a daily statistic in your country, and not the front-page news it rightfully is, as it is here. Keep your societally toxic political views to discussions of your own "valiant" nation.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;49588225]Your gun rights are why this is a daily statistic in your country, and not the front-page news it rightfully is, as it is here. Keep your societally toxic political views to discussions of your own "valiant" nation.[/QUOTE]
If there's anything here that's "societally toxic" it's the anti-Americanism you're spouting.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49587337]What do you mean by that? Legit curious as I'm sure Canada didn't treat its natives the same way the US did[/QUOTE]
They treated them way, waaaaay worse.
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;49588349]They treated them way, waaaaay worse.[/QUOTE]
Still do, we have the "Highway of Tears" for a reason.
[QUOTE=Ridge;49587855]This is what is wrong with so many people involved in politics.
Something MUST BE DONE. It doesn't matter if those exact laws already exist and didn't stop it, it just means not enough was done. More laws must be passed. Keep tightening that noose. When someone breaks that law, just add more.[/QUOTE]
Our gun laws are fine, thanks for your concern, I'd rather them not be changed in either direction.
Too much restriction and people can't defend their own homes with them, too little restriction and shit can accidentally happen out in public.
If the shooter was one of the students who grabbed a gun from their parents home, it is the family and the shooter's fault, not our entire legal system and our entire society's fault.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;49588225]Your gun rights are why this is a daily statistic in your country, and not the front-page news it rightfully is, as it is here. Keep your societally toxic political views to discussions of your own "valiant" nation.[/QUOTE]
Guns aren't the issue bud. Societal issues, cultural issues, economic issues, health issues, and tons of other issues in the US is why we have issues with violence. Not gun violence, but just violence in general.
If you want to remove gun violence from the US, focus on whats causing the violence. Guns don't cause violence.
[QUOTE=Karmah;49588411]Our gun laws are fine, thanks for your concern, I'd rather them not be changed in either direction.
[b]Too much restriction and people can't defend their own homes with them,[/b] too little restriction and shit can accidentally happen out in public.
If the shooter was one of the students who grabbed a gun from their parents home, it is the family and the shooter's fault, not our entire legal system and our entire society's fault.[/QUOTE]
Your country already has too much restriction. A man was jailed and tried for defending his home against attackers who were throwing molotov cocktails into his home. He was brought up on charges for improperly storing weapons because he got to them too quickly.
[QUOTE=Ridge;49587855]This is what is wrong with so many people involved in politics.
Something MUST BE DONE. It doesn't matter if those exact laws already exist and didn't stop it, it just means not enough was done. More laws must be passed. Keep tightening that noose. When someone breaks that law, just add more.[/QUOTE]
Canadian firearm license holder here, I think you might be confusing the gun violence in the US with Canada. I mean we have some here, sure, but it's nowhere near as extreme as the US and it's regularly improving. The vast majority of deaths by firearm in Canada are suicide, the most recent statistics I have available are 80% suicide, 15% homicide, 5% accidental.
We have laws requiring safe storage (which was apparently not followed here, which would be punishable by law assuming the person at fault is still alive, it sounds like they may not be) and transport, as well as a lengthy process of a safety course, application, background check, interview of references etc. In general, it is a very different situation in Canada.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49588438]
obama passed something that funded the shit out of mental healthcare facilities in the us recently and anti gun control people in sh were still furious because???[/QUOTE]
Which anti-gun control hivemind users were "furious" exactly?
I remember it being slightly more like "yeah, most of this stuff is pretty reasonable but isn't some of this already on the books?"
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49588438]they sure as heck make it a lot easier to cause violence, there's issues on all fronts and they are tackled on all fronts
obama passed something that funded the shit out of mental healthcare facilities in the us recently and anti gun control people in sh were still furious because???[/QUOTE]
Sure, guns make it easier to kill people, but theres 150,000,000 people in the US who own guns, but we don't see rampant violence. Less than 10,000 deaths a year via gun violence.
Guns make it easier to kill people but again, if you remove guns you're still not solving the issue. You take guns away, people will move to knives, you remove knives, people will go to flathead screwdrivers. Guns aren't the issue.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;49588439]Your country already has too much restriction. A man was jailed and tried for defending his home against attackers who were throwing molotov cocktails into his home. He was brought up on charges for improperly storing weapons because he got to them too quickly.[/QUOTE]
Yes I also saw that posted in this thread :goodjob:
I never said the law is perfect, but such is the system where you have to pay to defend yourself if you want a good lawyer.
[QUOTE=Karmah;49588522]Yes I also saw that posted in this thread :goodjob:[/QUOTE]
That's the most passive aggressive smiley I've ever seen.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;49588427]If you want to remove gun violence from the US, focus on whats causing the violence. Guns don't cause violence.[/QUOTE]
The commercial interest that pushes congress would rip you apart and bury the debate before you knew what hit you.
[QUOTE=Elspin;49588443]Canadian firearm license holder here, I think you might be confusing the gun violence in the US with Canada. I mean we have some here, sure, but it's nowhere near as extreme as the US and it's regularly improving. The vast majority of deaths by firearm in Canada are suicide, the most recent statistics I have available are 80% suicide, 15% homicide, 5% accidental.
We have laws requiring safe storage (which was apparently not followed here, which would be punishable by law assuming the person at fault is still alive, it sounds like they may not be) and transport, as well as a lengthy process of a safety course, application, background check, interview of references etc. In general, it is a very different situation in Canada.[/QUOTE]
Or this was an illegal firearm, which is highly likely considering this is a northern Aboriginal community which are where the vast majority of Canada's unlicensed firearms owners are located, which means none of the safe storage laws were going to be followed anyway.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;49588620]Or this was an illegal firearm, which is highly likely considering this is a northern Aboriginal community which are where the vast majority of Canada's unlicensed firearms owners are located, which means none of the safe storage laws were going to be followed anyway.[/QUOTE]
I mean either way, the point is that there's already laws covering this. It's kind of a hard thing to enforce though, I mean unless you do housecalls or get a report it's hard to know if someone isn't safely storing their firearms.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;49588225]Your gun rights are why this is a daily statistic in your country, and not the front-page news it rightfully is, as it is here. Keep your societally toxic political views to discussions of your own "valiant" nation.[/QUOTE]
"daily"
[QUOTE=Elspin;49588708]I mean either way, the point is that there's already laws covering this. It's kind of a hard thing to enforce though, I mean unless you do housecalls or get a report it's hard to know if someone isn't safely storing their firearms.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the political shitfest that happens whenever the government gets involved in anything to do with the natives. Makes it even harder to enforce laws on the reserves.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;49589036]Not to mention the political shitfest that happens whenever the government gets involved in anything to do with the natives. Makes it even harder to enforce laws on the reserves.[/QUOTE]
La Loche isn't a reserve, just saying.
Using this to call for more gun regulation is silly.
This our worst mass shooting in decades. In America they seem to get huge mass shooting every week.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49589314]Using this to call for more gun regulation is silly. This our worst mass shooting in decades.[/QUOTE]
Didn't stop Australia.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49588478][url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1499698[/url]
you'll have a hell of a better time recovering from being stabbed in the shoulder with a flathead screwdriver than being shot multiple times with a pistol[/QUOTE]
yeah and it'll be even easier to recover from 8 missed shots. you can pick the best case scenario for any type of weapon, it's meaningless.
what are you going to do when the gun laws are absolutely perfect, nobody can get ahold of them for malicious reasons, and people start using explosives? what are you going to do about some pissed off kid poisoning all the food in his school's cafeteria?
guns do not make it easier to execute planned, thought out attacks on defenseless people. this kid could have killed 10 people with a basic hatchet if he wanted to.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49589431]yeah and it'll be even easier to recover from 8 missed shots. you can pick the best case scenario for any type of weapon, it's meaningless.
what are you going to do when the gun laws are absolutely perfect, nobody can get ahold of them for malicious reasons, and people start using explosives? what are you going to do about some pissed off kid poisoning all the food in his school's cafeteria?
guns do not make it easier to execute planned, thought out attacks on defenseless people. this kid could have killed 10 people with a basic hatchet if he wanted to.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously trying to suggest that guns, the pinnacle of weaponry that made almost all of our historical tools of warfare obsolete and forced a complete shift in military tactics does not make it easier to kill people? Because that would probably be the dumbest, least thought out argument I've ever heard against gun control in the history of forums, seriously. I mean yeah a really powerful explosive can kill a shit tonne of people but the kind of explosives most people can home make aren't nearly as dangerous as a good rifle or shotgun provided the shooter is competent.
Like did you honestly try to suggest that a screwdriver is equally harmful to a gun because "the shots might miss"? Like what is this post even??
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49589443]except they totally do, you don't have to do nearly as much physical work to kill someone with a gun, the mental preparation is much easier, you just pull the trigger and you probably took a life, pull it a few more times to be sure
do you really think it wouldn't be physically exerting as shit to hack through 5 or more people with an axe?
then there's also the fact that a perp with a gun is going to be a harder target for police to take down, a dude with a knife will probably be shot with a taser or blanketed in lead, whereas a perp with a gun can have an equal battle with the police[/QUOTE]
Like this is objectively fact, when that guy in the UK tried to go on a stabbing rampage the police just walked up and tazed him when he refused to comply, what kind of mental state would you need to be in to try and suggest that guns don't make you more dangerous
[QUOTE=Elspin;49589532]
Like did you honestly try to suggest that a screwdriver is equally harmful to a gun because "the shots might miss"? Like what is this post even??
[/QUOTE]
this just sums up facepunch for me. ignore everything you read so you can be dumb about somebody's argument instead of using your brain.
if you actually think it's a logical argument to say that stabbing someone in the shoulder isn't as effective as shooting someone five times, then you aren't fit to debate anything.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49589443]you just pull the trigger and you probably took a life[/QUOTE]
completely false. I suggest you take a gun to a range, listen experienced people's thoughts on the matter and read up on ballistics before you go around making claims that the average person can pick up a gun and start killing people with a single pull of the trigger.
[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elspin;49589532]
Like this is objectively fact, when that guy in the UK tried to go on a stabbing rampage the police just walked up and tazed him when he refused to comply, what kind of mental state would you need to be in to try and suggest that guns don't make you more dangerous[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack[/url]
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