And the world just watches, everyone is all over the fucking Libya but Syria?
[QUOTE=Crimor;29402543]It's not modern enough to target reaper drones.[/QUOTE]
A SA-11 Gradfly can shoot down a predator.
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29399136]They still have better air defenses then Libya and are no doubt going to take down at least 1 typhoon or 5 F-16s and whole bunch of drones. And there would be no real way of stopping the Syrian government without putting soldiers on the ground.
[editline]24th April 2011[/editline]
And of course any regime change would ruin the secular system in Syria as well.[/QUOTE]They have the same types of AA systems as Libya and Iraq had, having more of them is probably not going to result in a marginal increase in aircraft losses. I wouldn't want to be one of the poor sods sent in to fight the Syrian government if it ever comes to that, though. (that being said, they have a similar amount and type of equipment as the Iraqi military used to have. They might have less tanks than the Iraqis used to have iirc.)
Syria and Israel have always been best friends.
Aw comon Syria, seriously?
I'd always wondered whether these dictators are evil geniuses or pure idiots.
On one hand, you kill twelve people and strike fear into hearts of millions, who will now be more afraid to have something to do with protesting.
On the other, you kill twelve people but a million is left angry. At you. And they're sizzling more and more with every bullet you put into the skull of a civilian.
Help me Facepunch to solve this sociological problem.
[QUOTE=Adbor;29406194]I'd always wondered whether these dictators are evil geniuses or pure idiots.
On one hand, you kill twelve people and strike fear into hearts of millions, who will now be more afraid to have something to do with protesting.
On the other, you kill twelve people but a million is left angry. At you. And they're sizzling more and more with every bullet you put into the skull of a civilian.
Help me Facepunch to solve this sociological problem.[/QUOTE]
the former has a much stronger government/army than the latter scenario
God dammit, I fucking hate those Ba'athists more and more each day.
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29404443]A SA-11 Gradfly can shoot down a predator.[/QUOTE]
A reaper better than a predator in every single way, including maneuverability and speed, so I doubt it.
And buks aren't really that mobile, so pretty sure artillery could destroy the very few that syria has
[QUOTE=Bletotum;29406249]the former has a much stronger government/army than the latter scenario[/QUOTE]
Still, the amount of civilians greatly suprasses the one for military. It's a purely psychological issue on a large scale.
[QUOTE=Crimor;29416635]A reaper better than a predator in every single way, including maneuverability and speed, so I doubt it.
And buks aren't really that mobile, so pretty sure artillery could destroy the very few that syria has[/QUOTE]In any case, they wouldn't deploy attack drones (recon drones are a maybe) until the air defence systems have been taken out, as was the case in Libya.
[QUOTE=Crimor;29416635]A reaper better than a predator in every single way, including maneuverability and speed, so I doubt it.
And buks aren't really that mobile, so pretty sure artillery could destroy the very few that syria has[/QUOTE]
Thats not the point, once at least 2 people die NATO pulls out and syria has enough SA-11 to be a good threat.
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29419013]In any case, they wouldn't deploy attack drones (recon drones are a maybe) until the air defence systems have been taken out, as was the case in Libya.[/QUOTE]
Exactly and of course that means they can still shoot down some of the fighters which counts a lot more then a predator. And of course the only real way in is turkey which is rough mountainous areas that makes defensive concealment easier and lets not forget the Syrians are on there toes because of Israel.
[QUOTE=rsa1988;29390038]Okay now that is not right in the slightest, you'd think that leaders in the middle east would learn from Egypt not to fuck around with it's people.[/QUOTE]
They did learn from Egypt they learned to not let in outside journalists and shut down local news agencies! I wish they would have learned to respect there people, but they're holding onto power with effeciency.
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29424009]Exactly and of course that means they can still shoot down some of the fighters which counts a lot more then a predator. And of course the only real way in is turkey which is rough mountainous areas that makes defensive concealment easier and lets not forget the Syrians are on there toes because of Israel.[/QUOTE]Considering they only have 20 (and similar numbers of SA-9 and SA-13s, which are a lot shorter-ranged) of a system that is known to be vulnerable to EW, you might be being optimistic.
They are quite a lot stronger than Libya, but that's not saying much tbh.
Their SA-8s are far more numerous and more mobile than the SA-11s (and about half the range, which is a decent enough trade-off), so they're the primary concern imo.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29424689]Considering they only have 20 (and similar numbers of SA-9 and SA-13s, which are a lot shorter-ranged) of a system that is known to be vulnerable to EW, you might be being optimistic.
They are quite a lot stronger than Libya, but that's not saying much tbh.
Their SA-8s are far more numerous and more mobile than the SA-11s (and about half the range, which is a decent enough trade-off), so they're the primary concern imo.[/QUOTE]
I think the primary factor should not be on the capabilities of the equipment, but on the quality of the Syrian soldier and officer. There are counters to the laughable US-style "shock and awe" doctrine and the American reliance on technological solutions (and along with it, a possibility to capitalize on the possible weakness that the Americans are unwilling to sustain more than modest casualties in a "conventional war"). It remains to be seen if the Syrians can use them.
As for air defense, here's a quote from a field manual I've got:
[quote]Enemy deep interdiction may run into an air defense system of unparalleled depth, density and sophistication. Take a stylized block of Soviet air defense 70 km wide and 350 km keep, with weapons evenly spaced on a flat earth. An aircraft penetrating at 300 feet would be vulnerable to 300 missile engagements on ingress alone. Confusion, fear, ECM, and fatigue could degrade the effectiveness of the defenses. Even so, an aircraft would have only a 50-percent change of reaching the target if the probability of kill (Pk) of each individual firing is only one quarter of one percent--a modest claim for Soviet air defenders, given that the U.S. is calculating on a kill from 60 percent of Hawk firings and 80 percent of Patriot's.[/quote]
The field manual does not account for a number of factors such as well trained soviet troops and the fact that hawk and patriots require far more maintenance then a say SA-11, Tunguska or SA-8
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29440522]The field manual does not account for a number of factors such as well trained soviet troops and the fact that hawk and patriots require far more maintenance then a say SA-11, Tunguska or SA-8[/QUOTE]
So when did you have that soviet stick surgically implanted in your rectum?
Maintenance on weapons is no major issue until you lose your ability to use them, then they become a useless handicap, and no matter how well trained your troops are in a battle scenario they will become stressed and fatigued, thus fucking with their fighting ability, no matter how well trained they are.
They have a few mig 29's, which aren't exactly shit, plus the 4000 surface to air personal missiles they have
[QUOTE=bravehat;29441030]So when did you have that soviet stick surgically implanted in your rectum?
Maintenance on weapons is no major issue until you lose your ability to use them, then they become a useless handicap, and no matter how well trained your troops are in a battle scenario they will become stressed and fatigued, thus fucking with their fighting ability, no matter how well trained they are.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but the point is the Syrian crews are well trained and on their toes because of Israel.;
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