[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44929240]Supposedly an Israeli news team actually built a Liberator and tested it's accuracy, and they stated it's perfectly capable of hitting a small dish plate at about three to four meters. If that's the case, it is good enough for drive by shootings and assassination type deals. It's a weapon that you kill one person with, and then you go about melting the evidence.'
Edit: For anyone who is curious about possibly building their own Liberator by the way,[url=http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUjS30VXuyVqGrLA-UGmxbMQ] the ATF has released a few videos about different materials used in the construction of a Liberator[/url], and how dangerous they are with improper material usage.[/QUOTE]
It isn't the movies, you are ridiculously unlikely to kill someone with a single handgun round. That small hole in your body has to puncture something vital. Otherwise, particularly for smaller caliber handgun rounds, the elasticity of your organs will slow the bleeding significantly.
The statistical likelihood of surviving is quite high. Not only are the number of immediately vital organs very small (spine, brain, heart. That is the entire list. In certain circumstances even a direct hit to one of these organs can fail to be fatal.), but the likelihood of survival once you reach the hospital still alive is ridiculously high. As in over 95%.
Meanwhile basically anything from this list:
[url]http://www.gunbroker.com/410-Pistol/Browse.aspx?Keywords=410&Cats=2325[/url]
Loaded with .410 buckshot is ballistically untracable. At close range it would be quite fatal and you can follow the first round with subsequent rounds. .410 won't haul as much buckshot as 12 gauge, but it doesn't really have to at close range.
Anyone putting the amount of effort necessary to produce liberators for assassinations would likely have the means to aquire something better, such as the above.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44929375]Man, these are shitty guns. People build better, much more dangerous weapons in their garages out of sheet metal and shit they have lying around the house. Or, you can just buy a pile of parts and hammer together a receiver in an afternoon. Why the hell would I waste a bunch of time and money to print a shitty plastic derringer?
[IMG]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/11/15/1226760/983887-b86b77fc-4ccc-11e3-9491-1affab8972a4.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/[/url]
[url]http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party[/url][/QUOTE]
Because you know, everyone has the expertise to construct a fully working firearm with sheet metal duct tape and a hammer
You'd need a Lathe, a machine capabale of V-bending. Mechanical understanding to create a firing mechanism. A dremel, a metal saw, a drill capable of accurately go through metal. Both of those articles you linked described the guys making a AK-47 to possess a metal workshop where you'd find all the tools i mentioned, and the other about the mac-11 clones, it was made by a goldsmith who probably also had such tools availible to him.
Best you can do without a myriad of tools is a single-shot weapon using a tube, a nail and a hammer. But then again how will you get ammunition if you dont live in oh so liberal USA. You'd need tools to manufacture cartridges. You cant make a casing with sheet metal and a hammer.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44930323]Because you know, everyone has the expertise to construct a fully working firearm with sheet metal duct tape and a hammer
You'd need a Lathe, a machine capabale of V-bending. Mechanical understanding to create a firing mechanism. A dremel, a metal saw, a drill capable of accurately go through metal. Both of those articles you linked described the guys making a AK-47 to possess a metal workshop where you'd find all the tools i mentioned, and the other about the mac-11 clones, it was made by a goldsmith who probably also had such tools availible to him.
Best you can do without a myriad of tools is a single-shot weapon using a tube, a nail and a hammer. But then again how will you get ammunition if you dont live in oh so liberal USA. You'd need tools to manufacture cartridges. You cant make a casing with sheet metal and a hammer.[/QUOTE]
I can make a firearm capable of automatic fire without any special tools that we don't already have lying around the shed.
We already have a dremel, angle grinder, torch, welding machine, and hand drill. With those things, I can make a firearm. Most people in the U.S. already have these things, and if they don't, they know someone who does. All it takes is a little steel, some patience, and a little spare time.
[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;44929426]It doesn't take a genius to use 1 + 1.
The Practicality of these Weapons is terrifying.
Its not about Efficiency, its about Mass Production and ultimately as said above you can destroy the evidence and its absolutely untraceable.
You cannot search up a ID of a gun Reproduced in this way, you essentially can make yourself a half decent murder weapon that you can easily dispose of.
If a gun is made by a Gunsmith, there are practicalities there are at least some forms of documentation before you buy a gun. If you build a gun in your personal 3D Printer, there is none.[/QUOTE]
You can already do this.
[video] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wV3lmbSv4[/url][/video]
Why would i spend 800+ for a 3D printer when i could go down to home depot and make a more lethal, more concealable weapon.
3D printed weapons are a joke. Maybe in the future but i doubt that.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44930323]Because you know, everyone has the expertise to construct a fully working firearm with sheet metal duct tape and a hammer
You'd need a Lathe, a machine capabale of V-bending. Mechanical understanding to create a firing mechanism. A dremel, a metal saw, a drill capable of accurately go through metal. Both of those articles you linked described the guys making a AK-47 to possess a metal workshop where you'd find all the tools i mentioned, and the other about the mac-11 clones, it was made by a goldsmith who probably also had such tools availible to him.
Best you can do without a myriad of tools is a single-shot weapon using a tube, a nail and a hammer. But then again how will you get ammunition if you dont live in oh so liberal USA. You'd need tools to manufacture cartridges. You cant make a casing with sheet metal and a hammer.[/QUOTE]
You seem to think 3D printers are plug and play sort of deals and all the plans (or whatever they are called) going around online are a perfect match for your printer. In all likelihood you will have to work more on the design you've downloaded to make it viable than you would have spent messing around in a shed with some tubing, some metal plates and a hammer (you gotta have a hammer).
Have a read: [url]http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-first-3d-printed-gun-has-been-fired-and-i-dont-care/[/url]
or just go on scaremongering with practically no understanding of the issue. That is just as good.
[QUOTE=Fetret;44930518]You seem to think 3D printers are plug and play sort of deals and all the plans (or whatever they are called) going around online are a perfect match for your printer. In all likelihood you will have to work more on the design you've downloaded to make it viable than you would have spent messing around in a shed with some tubing, some metal plates and a hammer (you gotta have a hammer).
Have a read: [url]http://hackaday.com/2013/05/06/the-first-3d-printed-gun-has-been-fired-and-i-dont-care/[/url]
or just go on scaremongering with practically no understanding of the issue. That is just as good.[/QUOTE]
Because highlighting the difficulty of building your own gun without specalized tools is fearmongering 3d-printed guns.
[QUOTE=counterpo0;44929228]All pistols/ rifles have rifling, its what makes the bullet spin causing it reach targets +50 meters.
These 3D guns are no more then flintlock cap gun.[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm sure any part can be supplemented by a metal one.
Got a spare .22 barrel laying around somewhere or online? Stick it in the 3d printed gun and now it's no longer a single shot weapon.
The point isn't that you could print a gun within a few hours and go shooting, the point is that these technologies makes it vastly easier for people to manufacture firearms.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44930539]Because highlighting the difficulty of building your own gun without specalized tools is fearmongering 3d-printed guns.[/QUOTE]
Because not calling a 3D printer a specialised tool is fearmongering.
[QUOTE=Fetret;44931469]Because not calling a 3D printer a specialised tool is fearmongering.[/QUOTE]
You can buy relatively cheap 3D printers that just needs a screwdriver to assemble. It's not like a lathe that costs several thousands dollars.
Though I dont think 3D printed guns are gonna be a problem because you cant 3D print ammunition
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44931482]You can buy relatively cheap 3D printers that just needs a screwdriver to assemble. It's not like a lathe that costs several thousands dollars.
Though I dont think 3D printed guns are gonna be a problem because you cant 3D print ammunition[/QUOTE]
Well people do sell blanks, and people do sell bullet moulds.
I mean even in the U.S you can literally buy bullets everywhere, walk into walmart and buy them or sears or any outdoors place.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44931482]You can buy relatively cheap 3D printers that just needs a screwdriver to assemble. It's not like a lathe that costs several thousands dollars.
Though I dont think 3D printed guns are gonna be a problem because you cant 3D print ammunition[/QUOTE]
It is not a question of cost though, you can easily rent/use a lathe that is available somewhere else. Just because there is a 3D printer available does not mean you will be able to immediately print off a 3D gun, that is the point I'm trying to make.
[editline]28th May 2014[/editline]
Also the cheaper the 3D printer, the worse off the finished product will be, which is quite an issue if you are planning on using it to shoot bullets.
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;44929442]There's plenty of other weapons that you can make in your own home that are probably just as lethal.[/QUOTE]
So it's okay because of that? No.
I can see why people that this is cool and all but it really is a terrible idea, 3D printed guns shouldn't exist.
We do not need more guns.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;44931737]So it's okay because of that? No.
I can see why people that this is cool and all but it really is a terrible idea, 3D printed guns shouldn't exist.
We do not need more guns.[/QUOTE]
And what would be your solution to this?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44930323]Because you know, everyone has the expertise to construct a fully working firearm with sheet metal duct tape and a hammer
[/QUOTE]
you don't need any of that. all you need is 2 metal tubes of different diameters (one should slide in the other), a cap for one tube and a screw. that is seriously all you need to build a gun.
you can spend less than 40 bucks on this, 20 if you already have a little tool to drill in the screw.
but i'm probably late so w/e
That "revolver" test didn't mean jack shit. The fact that he was firing blanks means that there was barely any stress put on the barrel; A round, with actual mass, would probably wreck it pretty quickly.
[QUOTE=Sableye;44929163]so i have to be afraid of the return of the pepper-box revolver?
fine with me, those things can't hit a barn if it was 2 feet in front of them
[editline]28th May 2014[/editline]
also no riffling, can't do it with plastic so GL trying to make an undetectable riffle[/QUOTE]
Rifle barrels are actually a pretty easy component to fashion with basis metal working tools, no to mention you could always develop sabot ammunition or just gold old fashioned slug ammunition that still good up to 150/ish yards.
"Pure" 3d printed guns likely won't be a reality, but one can still fashion a good 50-75% of the components out of printable plastic. The barrel, gas system, springs and firing pin will likely have to remain metal parts, though.
This topic is so weird for me to form an opinion on.
I think people should be allowed to make whatever they want, as there should never be anything to hinder the progress of technology.
But on the other hand, I don't think civilians should be carrying arms of this magnitude.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;44932571]
"Pure" 3d printed guns likely won't be a reality, but one can still fashion a good 50-75% of the components out of printable plastic. The barrel, gas system, springs and firing pin will likely have to remain metal parts, though.[/QUOTE]
Maybe grips and stuff, but I don't see a plastic receiver holding up to any kind of repeated use.
[QUOTE=Karmah;44933032]... I don't think civilians should be carrying arms of this magnitude.[/QUOTE]
Magnitude?
Did you even look at the "guns" they've produced so far? This hasn't made firearms any more powerful than they already are. At most this is a niche which allows a few extra people with a very specific technology to have access to very primitive and mostly untested firearms.
I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding exactly what you mean by magnitude considering these weapons don't really seem to be the strongest or most reliable things you could make. If you consider those little plastic handguns to be a firearm with great magnitude, to me it just sounds like you don't want civilians to be carrying any sort of weapon at all.
I will say though that some of the 3d printed components meant for use in real firearms (like ar15 3d-printed lowers) could definitely make guns much more accessible, but this has already been accomplished with 80% ar15 lowers as was stated before. That and they are probably last much longer than the 3d printed plastic versions.
[QUOTE=Karmah;44933032]This topic is so weird for me to form an opinion on.
I think people should be allowed to make whatever they want, as there should never be anything to hinder the progress of technology.
But on the other hand, I don't think civilians should be carrying arms of this magnitude.[/QUOTE]
You're looking at a plastic pepperbox that fires .22 ammunition and breaks pretty easily, what magnitude of arms is this exactly?
I could go buy a Hi-Point C-9 for less money than it would take to reliably build these things. Even people in your country can arm themselves more easily and cheaply than going the route of 3D printing. Hell I could go buy some steel tubing and a nail and have something more effective.
why is the video's music so overly dramatic
its like playing final boss music during the setup phase
Unless you can 3D print with metal, there will be no 3D printing of guns.
I don't even think metal made out of tiny thin layers would even be strong enough, either
[QUOTE=TheTalon;44934353]Unless you can 3D print with metal, there will be no 3D printing of guns.
I don't even think metal made out of tiny thin layers would even be strong enough, either[/QUOTE]
you can "3d print" (3d print is a dumb term) with metal
[QUOTE=TheTalon;44934353]Unless you can 3D print with metal, there will be no 3D printing of guns.
I don't even think metal made out of tiny thin layers would even be strong enough, either[/QUOTE]
The US Army is already funding a project through DARPA(I think it's them??) to create a 3D Printer that'll be able to print components for firearms and vehicles. If this is the case, in about five to ten years time, we'll be looking at the ability to reliably print metal components for many, many things.
You know guys, I find it funny by the way... The government will have to regulate and control the internet in some way if they plan on having any successful means of gun control in the coming decade. In some respects, Gun Control and Internet Censorship are going hand and hand now a days.
[QUOTE=Karmah;44933032]This topic is so weird for me to form an opinion on.
I think people should be allowed to make whatever they want, as there should never be anything to hinder the progress of technology.
But on the other hand, I don't think civilians should be carrying arms of this magnitude.[/QUOTE]
"of this magnitude"? People have had weapons like this accessible beforehand for the better half of a century now. Only difference is this makes them easier to make.
I can agree that I don't like the idea of weapons being this simple to produce, but Jesus, do your research.
more effective zipguns have been being made with cheaper and easier materials since forever
20 bucks and a hardware store trip can produce much more viable and sturdy zip guns that any idiot can make. 3D printers have plenty of problems, take time to calibrate, and produce a gun I wouldn't fire even if I was so drunk I thought Honey BooBoo's mom looked good...
[QUOTE=Karmah;44933032]This topic is so weird for me to form an opinion on.
I think people should be allowed to make whatever they want, as there should never be anything to hinder the progress of technology.
But on the other hand, I don't think civilians should be carrying arms of this magnitude.[/QUOTE]
As a Canadian, you can purchase a PTRS-41 anti tank rifle. If you're worried about what Civilians can get their handguns, a .22lr zip gun is the least of your worries lmfao
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44929208][img]http://37.media.tumblr.com/25ef1155775855fbae104a056666a2b9/tumblr_n59ik9SyS51rfbrr0o1_500.jpg[/img]
Another image of the Japanese man's "arsenal" and the original maker of the Liberator made a comment regarding his arrest:[/QUOTE]
Christ the guy who originally designed the liberator is an overly verbose idiot. Not to mention deluded if he thinks printing 3D guns is somehow virtuous.
[I]'that he must harvest persecution and calamity for his creative and intrepid instincts is an indictment of his tame and mediorcre society'[/I]. Give me a break.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;44931737]So it's okay because of that? No.
I can see why people that this is cool and all but it really is a terrible idea, 3D printed guns shouldn't exist.
We do not need more guns.[/QUOTE]
That's simply not possible. The entire planet already has enough guns to arm ~1/26th of the world's population from the U.S. alone; What do you think is going to happen in the future as technology advances and it only gets [I]even easier and cheaper[/I] to manufacture them? They're always going to exist as long as people feel the need to use them, and there's nothing you can do about that short of becoming a complete surveillance state.
Maybe instead we should focus on addressing why people commit violence in the first place instead of trying to fruitlessly control the methods they use.
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