• Middle class jobs gone forever; Education may be part of the problem
    93 replies, posted
[QUOTE]FORTUNE -- The Occupy Wall Street movement has brought a new focus to an issue that many Americans have long seen as a problem: The growing gap between the haves and have nots. The nation's richest households are getting richer while everyone else seems to languish behind. There's obviously something wrong with that. But while it's easy to blame corporate greed and the evil banks, it might make more sense to look at what's happening to the jobs that once supported America's growing middle class. They're shrinking. Fast. In a recent report, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York highlighted the erosion of what it calls "middle-skill jobs." These are relatively comfy jobs that don't demand a lot of schooling -- folks in sales, office and administrative workers, production workers and the like. The Americans that held these jobs once earned a decent living, which meant buying a home and retiring comfortably, all without a college degree. Those days are long over (since around 1980, actually). The Fed crunches some pretty disturbing numbers that imply America's jobless problems today will probably not go away even when the economy fully recovers. [b]Between 1980 and 2009, demand for high-skilled workers from engineers to architects grew steadily. So did their wages. For instance, the median wage for jobs related to computers and math was roughly $49,000 in 1980 and it rose to $67,000 in 2009. Demand for lower-skilled workers from waitresses to construction workers also grew (and to some extent, so did their wages), leaving the middle class floundering with few options and declining or stagnant pay.[/b] So how bad off is the middle class? The Fed offers a distressing glimpse: In 1980, three quarters of all U.S. workers were employed in middle-skill jobs. By 2009, that figure plunged to two-thirds. Whereas machine operators accounted for 10% of the nation's jobs more than three decades ago and administrative jobs comprised 18%, their shares spiraled to about 4% and 14%, respectively, by 2009. It's not just a trend in the U.S., but also in many of the world's advanced economies. And while it has been happening for more than three decades, middle-skill jobs suffered more than most others during the Great Recession. [b]Economists have offered several reasons explaining the trend, from the sophistication of machines that replace routine work to international trade and offshoring. Indeed, rising demand for skilled workers seems almost irreversible. But Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist David Autor suggests that perhaps it's not entirely out of our control.[/b] The vanishing of middle-skill jobs has [b]hurt America's less educated white males most[/b]. It's certainly surprising, given that men typically earn more than women in corporate America. But if you look at the nation's college campuses, it's easy to see why. In a study published last year, Autor pointed out that the rate of women getting college degrees has by far outpaced men. Since higher-skilled jobs requiring college degrees tend to pay significantly more, this slowing growth for men doesn't bode well. Between 1970 and 2008, four-year college degree attainment among white men ages 25 to 34 rose only modestly, from 20% in 1970 to 26% in 2008. By contrast, college attainment among white females remarkably tripled to 34% from 12%. There's been little in the way of filling the jobs gap. And while Autor doesn't offer any specific solutions, [b]it's hard not to wonder if America's inequalities perhaps have more to do with its education system than the big bonuses on Wall Street.[/b] [img]http://fortunewallstreet.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/employment_by_occupation.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/11/28/middle-class-jobs-decline/?iid=EL[/url] Basically, it's not that the rich are simply getting richer. It's that we're not getting smarter, which decreases our availability to a variety of jobs.
Hooray for being a middle class white guy, too poor for a university, too rich for financial aid!
[QUOTE=BldrGyMnGy;33516981]Hooray for being a middle class white guy, too poor for a university, too rich for financial aid![/QUOTE] I wanted to be an engineer..... Instead I'm stocking store shelves for the rest of my life.
I want to be middle class, rich would be great but I don't need it. I just want to live simply and enjoy myself, and it seems like that goal gets harder and harder everyday.
In Medieval times the elite stayed in power by keeping the masses ignorant. College costs are getting more and more ridiculous so that soon only the wealthy or the lucky few who managed to nab several scholarships will be allowed into anything beyond community college. College costs should be lowered and schools should be reworked so that everyone has an equal opportunity at an education. This means food like cereal and milk in the morning for poor communities so that children can focus on their schoolwork rather than the lunch-bell.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;33516969] Basically, it's not that the rich are simply getting richer. It's that we're not getting smarter, which decreases our availability to a variety of jobs.[/QUOTE] That's not the point at all, the point is that decent-paying jobs that didn't require a lot of education have all been phased out and sent overseas.
I think once we get to high school we should be able to do are schooling on what we will be in life. So we can work more on the career we want to do other then learning all around things.
[QUOTE=nikola631;33517167]I think once we get to high school we should be able to do are schooling on what we will be in life. So we can work more on the career we want to do other then learning all around things.[/QUOTE] This isn't a good idea. Having general knowledge, even if it is just a survey course, is what keeps people from being ignorant of others manipulating them. At minimum it is good to not repeat history.
[QUOTE=BldrGyMnGy;33516981]Hooray for being a middle class white guy, too poor for a university, too rich for financial aid![/QUOTE] Yeah, it is fucking ridiculous. You're literally stuck unless you wish to take an ass ton of debt from student loans. (I personally would like to earn a masters or PHD in my field)
[QUOTE=Hidole555;33517109] This means food like cereal and milk in the morning for poor communities so that children can focus on their schoolwork rather than the lunch-bell.[/QUOTE] The problem with that is that they're ALWAYS going to focus on the lunch bell, and for one simple reason. Kids do not like to study. You want to get kids focusing on their schoolwork? Either get an act of god that changes the basic programming of a child, or do away with 'lunch' alltogether and bring meals to the desks so that kids never leave the classroom to eat.
There used to be a time where you could bust your butt all day on a production line straight out of high school and in a few years earn enough to be able to afford a reasonably sized house. A university degree was reserved for the folks who either wanted more or really enjoyed learning. Now, production line jobs have pretty much all dried up and equivalent jobs will pay barely enough to make ends meet. University grads are stuck either without a job or working at a fast food restaurant to pay off their $50k+ in student loans. The world is fucked, so do whatever
I will say right now that our public school system is broken to hell and back. You can have good teachers but the bad teachers can destroy any will you have to really try to do well in school and your transcript too. Our schools are fucked up beyond belief and higher education is getting progressively expensive for no discernable reason.
fuck it dude just be a musician or a pot dealer
[QUOTE=MR-X;33517304]Yeah, it is fucking ridiculous. You're literally stuck unless you wish to take an ass ton of debt from student loans. (I personally would like to earn a masters or PHD in my field)[/QUOTE] Exactly, I'm a graphic design major now; but I really want to go once I can stand on my own feet financially, and get at least a bachelors in political science just because I like it, I'd LOVE a masters or PHS though. No idea if that will be possible now though.
The upside of this is that it looks like I picked a good career field. Smell you later, losers!
[QUOTE=BldrGyMnGy;33516981]Hooray for being a middle class white guy, too poor for a university, too rich for financial aid![/QUOTE] My boat exactally. I got accepted to a pretty good college, but the cost is something like 28000$ /year? I can't afford that... I am hoping to get some scholarships, but that is looking grim thanks to this year.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33517364]There used to be a time where you could bust your butt all day on a production line straight out of high school and in a few years earn enough to be able to afford a reasonably sized house. A university degree was reserved for the folks who either wanted more or really enjoyed learning. Now, production line jobs have pretty much all dried up and equivalent jobs will pay barely enough to make ends meet. University grads are stuck either without a job or working at a fast food restaurant to pay off their $50k+ in student loans. The world is fucked, so do whatever[/QUOTE] Those kind of jobs have also been taken by automation. If you want something like that, the closest thing would be Construction or getting a 2 year degree at a trade school to learn some sort of technical thing.
I graduate from High School in 2014, I doubt I'll get to a university. I'm thinking I'll just end up in the Air Force if I'm lucky. Aircraft Armament Systems sounds nice, or Aerial Gunner.
America's a service-based economy now, is the thing. There are less middle-class jobs because we don't need as many middle-class workers in order to keep things rolling. We're de-industrializing, moving the bulk of our industrial efforts towards lesser developed countries to cut costs. It has the upside of providing booms to those countries, but has the downside of cutting the number of middle-class jobs in America.
Doesn't the government finance US universities at least one tiny bit hooray for free uni here i guess
[quote]The vanishing of middle-skill jobs has hurt America's less educated white males most.[/quote] [img]http://forums.deletionquality.net/images/smilies/saddowns.gif[/img] [QUOTE=BldrGyMnGy;33516981]Hooray for being a middle class white guy, too poor for a university, too rich for financial aid![/QUOTE] There's always the alternative!: [B]CRIPPLING STUDENT LOANS![/B]
Thank god my state is paying my for my schooling, and have that combined with the financial grants I can recieve and I'm basically being paid to attend school.
Education and healthacare should be of top quality and free for every citizen imo. I pay taxes, I should receive my smarts and doctors for free. Our healthcare and colleges were free in Latvia but later they decided lolnope and now we have to pay. Such bullshit.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33517651]Education and healthacare should be of top quality and free for every citizen imo. I pay taxes, I should receive my smarts and doctors for free. Our healthcare and colleges were free in Latvia but later they decided lolnope and now we have to pay. Such bullshit.[/QUOTE] The way I see it, taxes these days are an equivalent to tickets to a fair. All you've purchased is the right to enter. Everything that isn't an extremely basic human right (restrooms and roads) still has to be paid for. I suppose that's how it's been for a very long time anyway.
[QUOTE=MIPS;33517033]I wanted to be an engineer.....[/QUOTE] I wanted to support a family one day.
When will people learn that a well-rounded general education, at minimum, doubles the cost of going to college for no practical benefit? There are some majors out there that could fit all relevant classes into a single semester. Literature, history, and other general courses should be learned in high school, not college, unless they directly apply to the desired major. We just can't afford it.
Fuck yeah, my family makes 25k a year for 4 people. Free college motherfuckers.
I am thankful for being native American.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33517364]The world is fucked, so do whatever[/QUOTE] I heard that line get said before but I believe that time it gave birth to the 80's.
[QUOTE=MIPS;33518102]I heard that line get said before but I believe that time it gave birth to the 80's.[/QUOTE] "the world is fucked, so do whatever" sounds like a song by the smiths
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