[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291029]I don't know where you got that the Swedish population is uneducated - I think England and Sweden are pretty even when it comes to education.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between knowing how to read and write, and being educated about specific sociopolitical problems and policies. It's significantly less likely that someone from the average population actually knows what the fuck happens with the immigration systems of their countries.
After all, just look at us. A pretty big portion of our population insist that our borders are too open and that we just "let them in and give them stuff". The reality is we have some of the strictest borders in the EU, and possibly the world. Free travel within the EU allows EU citizens to get in the country, but staying is a entirely different matter and our border force work fucking hard to prevent "leeching".
Okay cool, so what if you're educated on the matters yourself. That doesn't stop the rest of the population from being dumb as bricks about the matter.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;48291124]I'll reply to your first comment first. You're not being branded racist for saying things, you're being branded racist because you make these statements that ignore other issues to put all or the majority of the burden on the issue of immigration. People have tried showing you facts and figures thread after thread after thread whenever these discussions come up but no one wants to listen
as for the second part, that's exactly my point. They are shitposts intended to start an argument and have no place in this thread[/QUOTE]
If you brand me racist then i have to laugh it off, sorry. It won't matter to me because it's such a buzzword nowadays. And if i was a racist then i sure as hell wouldn't live in Tøyen, Oslo.
People haven't showed me anything and it isn't relevant to me because at this point i'm having a problem with you guys branding people and using the word so much it loses it's meaning.
Racism to me is discrimination and violence because of colour of skin or origin. Comments against attitude or behaviour caused by culture/religion in a negative way is not racist to me.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48288786]Europeans have always been extremely racist (generally speaking, don't do that "but not all Europeans are racist" thing because you know what the fuck I mean)
You kind of have to be to decide that you are superior to the rest of the world and it therefore should be ruled by you.
Also funny when they talk about conflict in the Middle East even though Europeans started the shit (first with the Crusades, then with colonialism)
And I would like to add that all the unfounded "hurr durr ur cops shoot black ppl u racists" is just plain untrue most of the time. The reason it makes headlines here is because how rare and how abhorrent it is. America is by far the most diverse and racially tolerant country in the world, and for all are faults we at least do that right.[/QUOTE]
It appears you know very little of history, saying that the crusades were the first "thing" that started the conflicts in the middle east.
If you had only looked it up, you would've seen that prior to the crusades the muslims had taken what is now known as the arabic world from the East-Roman Empire and the Sassanid Empire. The crusades were a response to the call for help from the Byzantine emperor, in which he called for help against the caliplates who conquered the region.
[QUOTE=Monkey pie;48291144]If you brand me racist then i have to laugh it off, sorry. It won't matter to me because it's such a buzzword nowadays. And if i was a racist then i sure as hell wouldn't live in Tøyen, Oslo.
People haven't showed me anything and it isn't relevant to me because at this point i'm having a problem with you guys branding people and using the word so much it loses it's meaning.
Racism to me is discrimination and violence because of colour of skin or origin. Comments against attitude or behaviour caused by culture/religion in a negative way is not racist to me.[/QUOTE]
If it's a problem with culture or religion then shouldn't the the majority of muslims or jews living in scandinavia be violent/criminal?
Alright, let's talk raw statistics and graphs here.
1. Rapes - a bit of a gray area to talk about since nobody has the balls to do a thorough report on rapes with ethnicity added into the algorithm in Sweden, but I'll do my best.
Here's a small graph that shows the increase in immigration on a year basis (the gray staples) and the increase in reported rapes per year (the red line) in Sweden.
([URL="http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/"]source[/URL])
[t]http://i.imgur.com/g6evH12.jpg[/t]
Anything looks weird or just a coincidence? I expect you to shove it off as a coincidence but we'll see.
Keeping in mind the view on women in the countries the majority of our immigrants derive from (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan - [URL="http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik/Asylsokande---de-storsta-landerna.html"]source[/URL]) where lightly-dressed women are considered as prostitutes.
2. Work - A report from 2014
Working Swedes born in Sweden vs Swedes born in a foreign country (on a percentage-basis):
Dotted green: Swedish born males
Dotted red: Swedish born females
Striked green: Opposite of dotted green.
Striked red: Opposite of dotted red.
([URL="http://www.scb.se/statistik/_Publikationer/BE0801_2004K04_TI_01_A05ST0404.pdf"]source[/URL])
[t]http://www.tino.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/scb1.png[/t]
3. Cost - A clip showing us our previous Prime Minister telling us that continiued immigration at the current level (has drastically increased since then) is going to be hard, expensive which basically translates into no apartments for our young, no integration for our current immigrants, decreased funding for our already slimmed government-funded schools, medical care and elderly care.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkfN2uqWsxk[/url]
This line:
Erkänner höga kostnader för invandringen – uppmanar svenskarna bita ihop och betala
Roughly translates to:
Admits the high costs of immigration - invites the Swedes to bite the bullet and pay
[QUOTE=Monkey pie;48291144]If you brand me racist then i have to laugh it off, sorry. It won't matter to me because it's such a buzzword nowadays. And if i was a racist then i sure as hell wouldn't live in Tøyen, Oslo.
People haven't showed me anything and it isn't relevant to me because at this point i'm having a problem with you guys branding people and using the word so much it loses it's meaning.
Racism to me is discrimination and violence because of colour of skin or origin. Comments against attitude or behaviour caused by culture/religion in a negative way is not racist to me.[/QUOTE]
well then I can't have a discussion with you because you aren't willing to listen and you just want to get up on a soapbox about something that has very little importance in the grand scheme
I live in Birmingham, the city in England that's 'full of Muslims' where 'white people don't go'. Multiculturalism is the least of this city's problems
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291208]Alright, let's talk raw statistics and graphs here.
1. Rapes - a bit of a gray area to talk about since nobody has the balls to do a thorough report on rapes with ethnicity added into the algorithm in Sweden, but I'll do my best.
Here's a small graph that shows the increase in immigration on a year basis (the gray staples) and the increase in reported rapes per year (the red line) in Sweden.
([URL="http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/"]source[/URL])
[t]http://i.imgur.com/g6evH12.jpg[/t]
Anything looks weird or just a coincidence? I expect you to shove it off as a coincidence but we'll see.
Keeping in mind the view on women in the countries the majority of our immigrants derive from (Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan - [URL="http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik/Asylsokande---de-storsta-landerna.html"]source[/URL]) where lightly-dressed women are considered as prostitutes.
2. Work - A report from 2014
Working Swedes born in Sweden vs Swedes born in a foreign country (on a percentage-basis):
Dotted green: Swedish born males
Dotted red: Swedish born females
Striked green: Opposite of dotted green.
Striked red: Opposite of dotted red.
([URL="http://www.scb.se/statistik/_Publikationer/BE0801_2004K04_TI_01_A05ST0404.pdf"]source[/URL])
[t]http://www.tino.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/scb1.png[/t]
3. Cost - A clip showing us our previous Prime Minister telling us that continiued immigration at the current level (has drastically increased since then) is going to be hard, expensive which basically translates into no apartments for our young, no integration for our current immigrants, decreased funding for our already slimmed government-funded schools, medical care and elderly care.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkfN2uqWsxk[/url]
This line:
Erkänner höga kostnader för invandringen – uppmanar svenskarna bita ihop och betala
Roughly translates to:
Admits the high costs of immigration - invites the Swedes to bite the bullet and pay[/QUOTE]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/0vs6Uqh.png[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/mNcYGVv.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291250]...[/QUOTE]
Too bad ratings have been removed from here, otherwise you probably could've scraped together a zing or two.
Now I see how irrelevant it is to even try to have a solid discussion with you. You're not worth my time.
I am making fun of your mixup of correlation and causality and you're quiting?
Anything to do with the grenades and explosives stolen in France?
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291271]I am making fun of your mixup of correlation and causality and you're quiting?[/QUOTE]
I don't see any room for fun in this. This just shows how incapable you are of keeping a mature discussion about relevant things.
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=angelangel;48291276]Anything to do with the grenades and explosives stolen in France?[/QUOTE]
If you haven't noticed, go back a few pages and you'll see where this derailed.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291291]I don't see any room for fun in this. This just shows how incapable you are of keeping a mature discussion about relevant things.[/QUOTE]
His point is that your statistics don't mean anything unless you can prove that they are linked.
Ok then I'll say it without fun:
Correlation is not the same as causality.
Your first statistic show nothing beyond that correlation.
Less immigrants working is a given because they face many difficulties.
Job application with foreign name? Out of the window it goes.
Your statistics show that immigrants need more help and less discriminization.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;48291305]His point is that your statistics don't mean anything unless you can prove that they are linked.[/QUOTE]
I am completely aware of that, hence why I wrote it was a gray area so I'll give you that one.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291317]I am completely aware of that, hence why I wrote it was a gray area so I'll give you that one.[/QUOTE]
Then why did you post it? It doesn't reinforce your argument it only makes it look like you're grasping at straws.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291310]Your statistics show that immigrants need more help and less discriminization.[/QUOTE]
No shit sherlock? But at the same time we gotta make sure the budget cuts it and not let our medical care, our school system and elderly care fall apart. Any less funding to either one and they fall apart. Every single nurse in our public medical care system is under-paid and there's strikes every other month already. It's not healthy.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291317]I am completely aware of that, hence why I wrote it was a gray area so I'll give you that one.[/QUOTE]
Very generous but it's not a grey area it's just not a feasible study.
The reported rape numbers are rising because more people are actually reporting them and because the legal definition of rape changed.
Tracing down that statistics by the way ends in "Migration Board, BRÅ" but there is just no way to get the original source. It's prominently used in the Stormfront forums thoug.
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291328]No shit sherlock? But at the same time we gotta make sure the budget cuts it and not let our medical care, our school system and elderly care fall apart. Any less funding to either one and they fall apart. Every single nurse in our public medical care system is under-paid and there's strikes every other month already. It's not healthy.[/QUOTE]
Most immigrants are young people who find no work at home and actually pay into the social security systems. They are actively carrying the system.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291346]Very generous but it's not a grey area it's just not a feasible study.
The reported rape numbers are rising because more people are actually reporting them.
Tracing down that statistics by the way ends in "Migration Board, BRÅ" but there is just no way to get the original source. It's prominently used in the Stormfront forums thoug.[/QUOTE]
Then look towards our neighboring country which has a very strict immigration policy and their rapes statistics shows something. 6509 rapes were reported in Sweden during 2011 but only 392 in Denmark which has roughly half of our population. That's a [I]huge[/I] difference, and the Swedes are not much different from the Danish either.
I mean the statistics points towards it but surely I have nothing that can lock it down on that it's in fact that reason.
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
It's suits you left-wing extremists so well to just turn your heads the other way when showed legitimate facts and statistics (#2 & #3 in this case) about something that doesn't suit your optinions. It's what our left-wing political parties are doing at the moment.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291375]
I mean the statistics points towards it but surely I have nothing that can lock it down on that it's in fact that reason.[/QUOTE]
That's the point.
After all the statistics could also point towards an increase of reported rapes makig people immigrate.
Hell the increase in rapes even comes BEFORE the increase in immigration.
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[quote]It's suits you left-wing extremists so well to just turn your heads the other way[/quote]
Holy shit. Now you just sound petulant.
No. I already told you that number two doesn't show anything besides immigrants being less often employed. It doesn't fit anyone, it's just a fact and what you make of it is your interpretation. You interpret it as "immigrants don't want to work", I interpret it as "immigrants are having a hard time finding work"
And as I said the source of that first statistic is not even traceable and ends up with google results for Stormfront.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291375]It's suits you left-wing extremists so well to just turn your heads the other way when showed legitimate facts and statistics (#2 & #3 in this case) about something that doesn't suit your optinions. It's what our left-wing political parties are doing at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Yes people debating you on the Internet are left-wing extremists :rolleyes:
Are you a real person or a computer program designed to post the most inane bullshit possible? There is nothing extremist about anything that has been posted by your opposition. Nobody has requested we kill all the racists, nobody has suggest blowing up the homes of those who support locking down immigration. 'Extremist' is going to lose all it's fucking meaning if reactionary babies like yourself keep throwing it around like this.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291411]No. I already told you that number two doesn't show anything besides immigrants being less often employed. It doesn't fit anyone, it's just a fact and what you make of it is your interpretation. You interpret it as "immigrants don't want to work", I interpret it as "immigrants are having a hard time finding work"[/QUOTE]
That's not what I'm implying here. I am strictly going for the statistics here, and I am all for when it comes to helping our immigrants integrate with our community, but we've been trying to for [I]centuries[/I] without success so [U][I]just maybe[/I][/U] it's best to cut down on immigration a notch until we've stirred this up.
I still want immigrants who commit rapes, pedophilia, murders and other severe crimes to be deported. I want you to legitimately answer to this question: Don't you think immigrant rapists, murdurers and pedophiles should be deported?
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291411]And as I said the source of that first statistic is not even traceable and ends up with google results for Stormfront.[/QUOTE]
Try using a [URL="https://www.google.de/#q=proxy"]Proxy[/URL]
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48291469]Yes people debating you on the Internet are left-wing extremists :rolleyes:
Are you a real person or a computer program designed to post the most inane bullshit possible? There is nothing extremist about anything that has been posted by your opposition. Nobody has requested we kill all the racists, nobody has suggest blowing up the homes of those who support locking down immigration. 'Extremist' is going to lose all it's fucking meaning if reactionary babies like yourself keep throwing it around like this.[/QUOTE]
No I'm a computer program, makes sense - let's stick with that.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291472]That's not what I'm implying here. I am strictly going for the statistics here, and I am all for when it comes to helping our immigrants integrate with our community, but we've been trying to for [I]centuries[/I] without success so [U][I]just maybe[/I][/U] it's best to cut down on immigration a notch until we've stirred this up.
[/QUOTE]
You don't even know what you just said earlier:
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48290689]and end up living off of government allowances since they get more paid for doing nothing rather than having an actual job - and me as a tax payer are paying for that.
We also need to drastically cut down on immigration and start prioritizing, maybe try helping people where they currently live while we still accept a balanced amount of immigration.[/QUOTE]
You literally literally said that immigrants actively don't work
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291472]
Try using a [URL="https://www.google.de/#q=proxy"]Proxy[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
It's not our job to research where your statistics are coming from.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291510]It's not our job to research where your statistics are coming from.[/QUOTE]
The link goes directly to the source, which is why I wanted you to use a proxy cause either your ISP or the host has geo-blocking enabled.
The raw link: [CODE]http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/[/CODE]
What a fun thread.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291250][t]http://i.imgur.com/0vs6Uqh.png[/t]
[/QUOTE]
I think this one is legit causality tbh
I can click links. You didn't even understand that I meant that the statistics is untraceable, not that the link is not working.
The website links
[url]http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/05/sweden-and-the-cost-of-mass-immigration/[/url]
Which has THIS as its banner:
[img]http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/cropped-viennaheader1000.jpg[/img]
Holy shit. That's biased as fuck reactionary propaganda if I ever saw some.
And for tracing that image it gives us "(Source Migration Board, BRÅ)" as a source and that's where it vanishes.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291510]You literally literally said that immigrants actively don't work[/QUOTE]
Which is what happens when integration does not work. Do you seriously believe that these 30-40% of unemployed immigrants are living off of nothing? Use your brain dude
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291558]Which is what happens when integration does not work. Do you seriously believe that these 30-40% of unemployed immigrants are living off of nothing? Use your brain dude[/QUOTE]
But you said
[quote]That's not what I'm implying here.[/quote]
in response to
[quote]You interpret it as "immigrants don't want to work", [/quote]
Now what is it? Do they not WANT to work or is it that they have BAD CHANCES at finding a work?
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291576]But you said
in response to
No what is it? Do they not WANT to work or is it that they have BAD CHANCES at finding a work?[/QUOTE]
What I mean is that when integration don't work, unemployment is inevitable (as you can see in graph #2) and our current immigration AND integration system is flawed. In order to fix the integration system, which we should focus on before accepting much more immigrants to segregate, we have to slow the current immigration down, drastically or a notch, either one works for me as long as we're able to integrate at the same rate we're immigrating. Makes sense?
As for the 1st graph, it's combined of statistics from BRÅ ([URL="https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html"]source[/URL]) and statistics from Migrationsverket ([URL="http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik.html"]source[/URL])
And to strictly answer your question, I do not think immigrants wants to be unemployed, but I do think as long as they get this amount of money from being unemployed they're being less attracted to go out finding a job.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291208]Alright, let's talk raw statistics and graphs here.
1. Rapes - a bit of a gray area to talk about since nobody has the balls to do a thorough report on rapes with ethnicity added into the algorithm in Sweden, but I'll do my best.
Here's a small graph that shows the increase in immigration on a year basis (the gray staples) and the increase in reported rapes per year (the red line) in Sweden.
([URL="http://www.d-intl.com/2014/05/07/muslimer-kraftigt-overrepresenterade-i-valdtaktsbrott/"]source[/URL])
[t]http://i.imgur.com/g6evH12.jpg[/t]
[/QUOTE]
You know what, that's such a dishonest graph. First off, your graph shows [B]reported rapes[/B]. Did you know what happened the 1st April 2005? Yes,[b] Sweden widened the definition of rape to include some cases of sexual assault[/B].
Second, people actually guilty of rape hasn't actually gone up.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48291646]Second, people actually guilty of rape hasn't actually gone up.[/QUOTE]
So you've missed the part where our courts have been highly questioned for their judgement when it comes to rape? [URL="http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/friande-valdtaktsdomar-okar-kraftigt/"]2012 article[/URL] from 22% to 33% which [URL="http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2014/02/36-procent-av-atalen-valdtakt-leder-till-friande-dom"]last year was 36%[/URL] and probably has risen since.
Here's some more:
[url]http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/28-arig-man-frias-i-kritiserat-valdtaktsmal/[/url]
[url]http://www.dn.se/sthlm/tonarspojkar-frias-fran-gruppvaldtakt/[/url]
[url]http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/40-aring-kopte-valdssex-av-tove-16--frias-fran-valdtakt/[/url]
[url]http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6099280[/url]
[url]http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article18157063.ab[/url]
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