[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291687]So you've missed the part where our courts have been highly questioned for their judgement when it comes to rape? [URL="http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/friande-valdtaktsdomar-okar-kraftigt/"]2012 article[/URL] from 22% to 33% which [URL="http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2014/02/36-procent-av-atalen-valdtakt-leder-till-friande-dom"]last year was 36%[/URL] and probably has risen since.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Av studien framgår att åtalen ogillades i 61 av de 169 fallen – vilket alltså innebär att antalet friande domar uppgick till 36 procent.[/B][/QUOTE]
Or perhaps it's because the passing of the law in 2005 that has inflated the rape numbers?
I'm just looking at raw data, just like you're doing. Reported rapes are going up due to the new laws. And the numbers of rapists aren't growing.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48288786]Europeans have always been extremely racist (generally speaking, don't do that "but not all Europeans are racist" thing because you know what the fuck I mean)
You kind of have to be to decide that you are superior to the rest of the world and it therefore should be ruled by you.
Also funny when they talk about conflict in the Middle East even though Europeans started the shit (first with the Crusades, then with colonialism)
And I would like to add that all the unfounded "hurr durr ur cops shoot black ppl u racists" is just plain untrue most of the time. The reason it makes headlines here is because how rare and how abhorrent it is. America is by far the most diverse and racially tolerant country in the world, and for all are faults we at least do that right.[/QUOTE]
"Crusade" yeah lets not forget Turks raping and killing the Europe (long, long time ago)
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48291733]Or perhaps it's because the passing of the law in 2005 that has inflated the rape numbers?
I'm just looking at raw data, just like you're doing. Reported rapes are going up due to the new laws. And the numbers of rapists aren't growing.[/QUOTE]
Oh the numbers are [URL="http://i.imgur.com/bAawvRp.png"]growing[/URL] alright ([URL="https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html"]source[/URL] - scroll to "Lagförda sexualbrott" - could also be to the 2005 passing law), but the percentage is pretty much the same. I guess we'll just have to see in a couple of years, I'm not going to speculate around the rapes anymore since I can't really find a solid study which takes ethnicity into account.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291765]Oh the numbers are growing alright, but the percentage is pretty much the same. I guess we'll just have to see in a couple of years, I'm not going to speculate around the rapes anymore since [B]I can't really find a solid study which takes ethnicity into account.[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly. I can agree to the statistics saying that foreign born Swedes are working less, or that refugees costs society a lot of money. Because there are clear statistics that support it. And those are problems that can be fixed via education, better integration/assimilation programs and so forth.
But I can't agree to statistics from a right-wing blog article with the title "Muslims are overrepresented in rape". Especially when our laws are so incredibly liberal. And it makes it seem that it's a racial problem (let's not pretend that they are referring to people that practice Islam when they say Muslims).
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291765]Oh the numbers are [URL="http://i.imgur.com/bAawvRp.png"]growing[/URL] alright ([URL="https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html"]source[/URL] - scroll to "Lagförda sexualbrott" - could also be to the 2005 passing law), but the percentage is pretty much the same. I guess we'll just have to see in a couple of years, I'm not going to speculate around the rapes anymore since I can't really find a solid study which takes ethnicity into account.[/QUOTE]
Your source is about sexual crime in general, not just rape. But yes I meant the percentages. If immigrants actually contributed greatly to the number of rapes, then it'd make sense for that number to grow considerably. But it isn't growing at the rate that your graph seem to have suggested.
Even the money issue is a non-issue
[url]http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/[/url]
And the US has far more strict laws. In Sweden everyone who stays longer than a year has guaranteed residence.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48291801]Exactly. I can agree to the statistics saying that foreign born Swedes are working less, or that refugees costs society a lot of money. Because there are clear statistics that support it. And those are problems that can be fixed via education, better integration/assimilation programs and so forth.[/QUOTE]
But you suggest that we keep increase the amount of immigrants we accept and create further segregation and more unemployed, unintegrated immigrants that requires us to increase taxes and/or decrease funding towards medical care, elderly care and the school system?
We've increased the amount of immigrants we accept by almost 1000% in the last 30 years ([URL="http://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.39a9cd9514a34607721127f/1421326239958/Beviljade+uppeh%C3%A5llstillst%C3%A5nd+1980-2014.pdf"]source[/URL]). And if you look closely on those stats, couldn't there be some room to priorotize? We accept almost as much relatives as war refugees, those in most need of a refugee. The amount war refugee relatives are listed beside it.
[editline]25th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;48291860]Even the money issue is a non-issue
[url]http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/[/url]
And the US has far more strict laws. In Sweden everyone who stays longer than a year has guaranteed residence.[/QUOTE]
The only thing I see in that report is "American" and "US". We're talking about Sweden, and Swedens governance is completely different from American. I don't even know what Social Security is and if I pay it. Perhaps I do, no clue.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48291884][B]But you suggest that we keep increase the amount of immigrants [/B]we accept and create further segregation and more unemployed, unintegrated immigrants that requires us to increase taxes and/or decrease funding towards medical care, elderly care and the school system?[/QUOTE]
Where have I suggested that we increase the numbers of immigrants?
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48291917]Where have I suggested that we increase the numbers of immigrants?[/QUOTE]
Poorly formatted question, but please do answer. [DEL]Forgot[/DEL] Missed to insert a do in "But do you..."
Of course not. Just because I don't want statistics to be misinterpreted or for people to generalize on groups, doesn't mean I want to have open borders.
There are clearly issues with mass immigration that certainly won't be solved by increasing the amount of immigrants. But pinning all societal issues on them and trying to bring up ethnicity and "race" is not the solution either.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48291954]Of course not. Just because I don't want statistics to be misinterpreted or for people to generalize on groups, doesn't mean I want to have open borders.
There are clearly issues with mass immigration that certainly won't be solved by increasing the amount of immigrants. But pinning all societal issues on them and trying to bring up ethnicity and "race" is not the solution either.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for answering.
I bring up ethnicity with rape/sexual harassment because I do believe it has an impact, but I may be wrong and we'll see in the stats in the upcoming years because it is not until a couple of years back that we really started to open our borders. Same reason I want immigrant rapists and murderers to be deported to their home country is the same reason why Thailand deported Fredrik Neij to Sweden to serve his prison sentence (not [I]exactly[/I] the same but you get the idea).
Where have I pinned all societal issues on immigrants? There are more issues than that, about a month ago our new government (red-green, MP too) sold our coal reserve to companies that will burn it up and create a nice, big hole in our already damaged ozon layer.
interestingly, second-generation immigrants are always left off the table in these discussions, which is strange considering that they have better outcomes for assimilation and integration.
from the [URL="http://ftp.iza.org/dp5185.pdf"]institute from the study of labor[/URL] in germany:
[QUOTE]We find that first-generation immigrants differ in a most important way from native-born along such dimensions as language, citizenship, civic involvement, religiosity, trust, perceived discrimination, occupations, and income. However, these differences are no longer the same for second-generation immigrants. In fact, a spectacular progress is observed between generations with respect to language and citizenship, occupations and income, while features such as religiosity are relatively persistent. In contrast, perceived discrimination and unemployment may actually aggravate for second-generation immigrants, while trust may also diminish, as compared to native-born and to first-generation immigrants. At the same time, we also find that there is an important heterogeneity in these outcomes not only across immigrant generations, but also across destination countries and migrant origins.[/QUOTE]
in other words, the picture is highly complicated depending on where they're from, where they're going, the policies that they implement, etc.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48292028]T
[B]Where have I pinned all societal issues on immigrants?[/B] There are more issues than that, about a month ago our new government (red-green, MP too) sold our coal reserve to companies that will burn it up and create a nice, big hole in our already damaged ozon layer.[/QUOTE]
Not talking about you, but that's just the general gist I'm getting from a lot of the far-right people in Sweden. Think, maybe further right than the average SD voter.
Me and my friend decided to venture into the zone to capture some footage for you guys. Not gonna lie it's pretty brutal. We are a diverse duo (Swede + foreigner) who aim to document the events taking place in Malmö.
[vid]http://pahlavan.se/dump/thezone-malmo.webm[/vid]
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;48292095]Me and my friend decided to venture into the zone to capture some footage for you guys. Not gonna lie it's pretty brutal. We are a diverse duo (Swede + foreigner) who aim to document the events taking place in Malmö.
[vid]http://pahlavan.se/dump/thezone-malmo.webm[/vid][/QUOTE]
That was pretty funny, well done man.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;48292085]Not talking about you, but that's just the general gist I'm getting from a lot of the far-right people in Sweden. Think, maybe further right than the average SD voter.[/QUOTE]
There's huge problems in both ends of right and left, no arguing that - but there's always going to be those kind of people existing and there's really nothing to do about it. Would we strive far right we'd end up like Hitler and would we strive far left we'd end up slaughtering all white, middle-aged men. There's no end to it and there's always going to be extremists.
I still feel like the "average SD voter" is considered to be a far right, neo-nazi scum by our current society, and as a SD voter myself I say that's not true. I am aligned more to the right and you may be aligned more to the left, nothing wrong about that - but I still want to be somewhere in between only voting far right or far left when neccessary to even it out, because that's what has brought Sweden this far.
It was nice having a discussion with you without being labeled a neo-nazi racist.
Cheers, gotta go to bed now, been up since 2 AM this night working on a project...
[QUOTE=Killuah;48289947]
What scale? It's a few hundred thousand, the EU has 500 Million inhabitants and is one of the richest plces on Earth.
It's not a problem of scale or ressources, it's a problem of willingness.[/QUOTE]
Actually no, it is a problem of scale and resources.
[QUOTE=Svenskunganka;48292171]There's huge problems in both ends of right and left, no arguing that - but there's always going to be those kind of people existing and there's really nothing to do about it. Would we strive far right we'd end up like Hitler and would we strive far left we'd end up slaughtering all white, middle-aged men. There's no end to it and there's always going to be extremists.
I still feel like the "average SD voter" is considered to be a far right, neo-nazi scum by our current society, and as a SD voter myself I say that's not true. I am aligned more to the right and you may be aligned more to the left, nothing wrong about that - but I still want to be somewhere in between only voting far right or far left when neccessary to even it out, because that's what has brought Sweden this far.
It was nice having a discussion with you without being labeled a neo-nazi racist.
Cheers, gotta go to bed now, been up since 2 AM this night working on a project...[/QUOTE]
I know quite a lot of SD voters and I wouldn't consider any of them to be neo-nazi scums :v: But yeah I guess that's what happens when a new party with quite different ideas gain popularity fast. I think this great polarity in Swedish politics will normalize within a few years. Remember how just like 5 years ago SD would never get any normal attention in mass media. They'd always been put in negative lights. But nowadays even Aftonbladet can have sensible articles about SD without calling them nazis.
Anyhow gnite.
[QUOTE=Arrows;48287722]That ignoring ethnicity\religion is very dangerous, this has been proven many times, i used Rotherham as it's a prime example where police\social workers ignored the fact that there were organised pakistani muslim rape gangs as they were scared of being branded a racist.
If you are not aware of this incident, please google it, here's a wikipedia article on this, although i would recommend googling to see the news articles as they are in greater depth, especially regarding the scandels involved with the police, social workers and MPs in power:
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal[/URL][/QUOTE]
I know about the incident. Are you trying to say the criminals' ethnicity and religious beliefs are relevant to their crimes??
[editline]26th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;48292095]Me and my friend decided to venture into the zone to capture some footage for you guys. Not gonna lie it's pretty brutal. We are a diverse duo (Swede + foreigner) who aim to document the events taking place in Malmö.[/QUOTE]
Heh yeah. I spent all day out and about in Malmö today with my SO; if you are to believe media's perception of the city it ought to have killed us. We saw exactly zero bombs go off or rapes by savage immigrant gangs occur, mark my surprise!
[QUOTE=Killuah;48290490]how about melting and developing instead of assimilation[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, that would work if the resources were available for the whole development concept... But you know when Sweden is experiencing a bust in it's housing market, that's sorta hard to fix.
Another bomb went off. It is pretty obvious that whoever is doing this is just doing it to scare people and bother the authorities. Since nobody ever gets hurt. Worst case scenario some windows break. If they wanted to do damage they would plant the bombs in places where people actually are. The police are also wondering why the grenade was placed in the middle of the street where it would do minimal damage.
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;48297244]Another bomb went off. It is pretty obvious that whoever is doing this is just doing it to scare people and bother the authorities. Since nobody ever gets hurt. Worst case scenario some windows break. If they wanted to do damage they would plant the bombs in places where people actually are. The police are also wondering why the grenade was placed in the middle of the street where it would do minimal damage.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21171118.ab[/url]
article
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
