Third gender enters law in Germany - Polidicks

[QUOTE=matt000024;42726087]Since when were gender and sex different things?[/QUOTE] [url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gender[/url] Read up on this.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42726135]since forever. sex is what parts you actually have. gender is an identity and ties into culture and gender roles.[/QUOTE] Too bad in a lot of languages/cultures, sex and gender are one and the same. I've literally never heard of a non-English speaking making the distinction.

[QUOTE=matt000024;42726087]Since when were gender and sex different things?[/QUOTE] gender is what you identify as, sex is what you are biologically, they don't need to line up

[QUOTE=gudman;42726057]I'm going to ask for clarification as I see some contradictions. What blank there is in the birth certificate - GENDER or SEX?[/QUOTE] The article is pretty clear on what the terminology means in this context. In the case of the German word, gender on the birth certificate means sex (biological distinction), and not the social role the child chooses to have. This bill is meant to give intersexed individuals (those born biologically with ambiguous genetalia or XXY chromosomes) the right to decide which sex they want to be later in life. Usually intersexed individuals have their sex chosen for them by parents or doctors, who perform surgeries so that the kids are made to be male or female (usually by which genetalia is the most prevalent). This can cause problems with gender (man or woman in this case) later in life, because the doctor might have given then an operation to be one sex (male or female), and they don't feel like that lines up with their gender (man or woman). Sorry if this is unclear, the basis of the problem here is just the German understanding of the word gender.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;42726137]Sex, really, although in a lot of languages there isn't a distinct word to differentiate between sex and gender. German is one of those languages.[/QUOTE] Oh, so okay, I think I understand now. Russian's the same, we have a clear words for sex (male=самец, female=самка), but these are almost never applied to human beings (and when they are, it's an insult). Instead more universal "man" "woman" analogues are used, most of the time they're used to define SEX, unless specified otherwise. Did I understand that correctly?

There have been cases when docters have performed sexual reassignment surgery on is babies without consent of the parents or even against the gender the parents wished upon with no repercussions. I don't know whether having a third gender is the right way to curve this, but it will definitely be a much needed legal buffer for both docters, parents, and most importantly the children themselves. [editline]1st November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;42725707]so is this if the baby both has testicles and oavaries?[/QUOTE] Something like testicles and vaginal cavity, malformed gonads, etc.

[QUOTE=gudman;42726319]Oh, so okay, I think I understand now. Russian's the same, we have a clear words for sex (male=самец, female=самка), but these are almost never applied to human beings (and when they are, it's an insult). Instead more universal "man" "woman" analogues are used, most of the time they're used to define SEX, unless specified otherwise. Did I understand that correctly?[/QUOTE] That's part of it (the gender/sex adjectives are seldom used for humans, but not necessarily insults), but more importantly both sex and gender are translated to "Geschlecht", so it's impossible to distinguish between the two without paraphrasing. [editline]edit[/editline] I think the most common method would be to refer to "biological sex" as needed, as gender is the default meaning of the word when talking about people. [editline]edit[/editline] It seems Gender is now used in German (with English pronunciation) to explicitly refer to gender, but I haven't heard it used anywhere so far.

Everyone rating this article dumb seems kind of ignorant. If someone was born with deformed sexual organs or with both sets, then doctors quite regularly used to try and remove one set (usually the male set) and slap female on the documents. All this is about is leaving it for a while so the parents or even child can decide. It's nothing to do with [I]transexual[/I] people, only [I]intersex[/I] people who are very very few and far between. The Law doesn't let parents put males or females down as indeterminate, it only creates a third classification with characteristics of both genders - basically it's redressing a bureaucratic mistake.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42725671]babies shouldn't have gender defined for them anyways. babies should have their sex written down, and then they get to "choose" gender later.[/QUOTE] It's almost like you didn't read the article at all.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;42725371]For those who don't understand: For children born with a genetic mutation giving them genitalia or other characteristics of both Males AND Females, the parents/doctors now have the option to declare the child Neither exclusively male nor exclusively female, so that the parents aren't pressured into choosing one gender or the other for their child right after birth through surgery. This, in theory, gives the child the ability to choose their own gender when they're older and mature enough to make their own decision.[/QUOTE] But doesn't sexual reassignment work best when done at young age? By the time the child is old enough to decide his/her gender, much of the efficiency of doing it younger is gone. Even if it removes the right for the person to make the decision, wouldn't you much rather look as close to one sex as possible? Rather than a man with more feminine traits or a woman with more masculine traits?

[QUOTE=Falubii;42728231]It's almost like you didn't read the article at all.[/QUOTE] They thought the third gender was plotting to seize control of Germany to rule for a thousand years. Alot of hate for people with gender issues is irrational.

is it neuchacho? ah this is for those extrenuous cases where the child is born with stuff not quite right [editline]2nd November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=supersoldier58;42728254]But doesn't sexual reassignment work best when done at young age? By the time the child is old enough to decide his/her gender, much of the efficiency of doing it younger is gone. Even if it removes the right for the person to make the decision, wouldn't you much rather look as close to one sex as possible? Rather than a man with more feminine traits or a woman with more masculine traits?[/QUOTE] it generally works best the younger they are, the catagory sounds more like they just are now allowing the time for the child to develope to the point that it starts to display behaviors typcally associated with male or female children, then they can "assign" the right gender [editline]2nd November 2013[/editline] just from studies, it would only be like a year at the most before the baby would mature enough to display signs of one or the other

[QUOTE=SeamanStains;42727373]Everyone rating this article dumb seems kind of ignorant. If someone was born with deformed sexual organs or with both sets, then doctors quite regularly used to try and remove one set (usually the male set) and slap female on the documents. All this is about is leaving it for a while so the parents or even child can decide. It's nothing to do with [I]transexual[/I] people, only [I]intersex[/I] people who are very very few and far between. The Law doesn't let parents put males or females down as indeterminate, it only creates a third classification with characteristics of both genders - basically it's redressing a bureaucratic mistake.[/QUOTE] People not reading or comprehending the article on SH is no longer shocking nor surprising.

[QUOTE=Winters;42729883]People not reading or comprehending the article on SH is no longer shocking nor surprising.[/QUOTE] Just look at that thread about that guy who hid his money from his wife.

The amount of people who rated dumb by not reading the article and just assuming it was helping trans* and non binary people adjust to life is astounding

[QUOTE=matt000024;42726087]Since when were gender and sex different things?[/QUOTE] Since tumblr

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;42731758]Since tumblr[/QUOTE] There are scholarly articles from at least forty years ago on the distinction, and that's just with a quick five-minute google search They're even different in the Oxford English Dictionary

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;42731758]Since tumblr[/QUOTE] Tumblr social justice seems to be divided on this issue. Plenty of feminists shout stuff about pure "Womyn".

pretty sure the gender and sex division has been clear hundreds of years before tumblr existed pretttty sure

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;42731758]Since tumblr[/QUOTE] epic zinger dude Transgenderism has been recorded in ancient Egypt. There is nothing new about this. The idea of gender and sex being separate concepts has been in academia for decades.

Why is this being rated dumb?

Everyone getting upset over this is getting upset over something that doesn't affect them Like fundamentalist Christians getting mad that gays can marry, for example

The demographic on facepunch rating this dumb need to grow up.

[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;42735746]The demographic on facepunch rating this dumb need to grow up.[/QUOTE] I feel like a topic like this could work as an exceptional idiot cull.