Any undocumented immigrant who entered the US after December 31, 2011, will not be eligible for citi - Polidicks

thread filled with lucky people who were born into a first world country and never had to fight to live in somewhere that isn't a complete shithole of a country

[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;40279661]Yes, except for the minor fact that illegal immigrants have very little education, often no English, and few skills that are usable in the job market. Anyone making so little (even legal immigrants aka Americans) pays next to nothing tax wise. What little they would pay would be offset by increased costs- schooling, emergency health care, subsidized insurance (assuming that plan ever goes into full effect), housing assistance, food stamps, welfare. People qualified to do well paying jobs don't illegally immigrate- and if they did that niche group would be welcomed (today we actually fast tract their application) Instead we will get the poorest of the poor. We can barely keep America's support system going now with the stresses of the economy. How much worse would it be if overnight another 30 mill ppl were added to welfare? States have their finances stretched as far as they can- who is going to pay for these increased costs?[/QUOTE] I don't think you are correct on most of what you said. You are basically saying that poor people significantly drain from the economy. Immigrants bolster the economy, I've already shown two sources that talk about that directly. Immigration trends don't follow welfare, they follow opportunities. Immigrants, legal or not aren't coming to America to live off welfare, they come to work.

I guess our little melting pot is just going to be queso free [Tab]is that a good joke? I think its a good joke.[/tab]

[QUOTE=Valnar;40275231]How are either of those questions relevant? So what if there isn't a country that allows unlimited immigration? Also, just because America may have the least restrictive immigration policy (note I am not actually sure if it does or not), that doesn't mean that the system shouldn't be less restrictive.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Valnar;40273200]Because the current legal process for immigration (atleast for the U.S.) is bad.[/QUOTE] The US has the most open immigration system in the entire world. If we are stopping people from entering, it's because we're FULL. [editline]14th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40281836]Anybody who claims that immigrants damages the economy of a country, increases unemployment, or destroys some kind of moral or cultural entity within the country is a blasted fool.[/QUOTE] Can you prove they don't?

[QUOTE=Ridge;40283832]Can you prove they don't?[/QUOTE] The burden of proof actually lies on the people who claim it does. I can't prove a negative.

[QUOTE=Ridge;40283832]The US has the most open immigration system in the entire world. If we are stopping people from entering, it's because we're FULL. Can you prove they don't?[/QUOTE] First of all, we're not the most open immigration system in the world. We're not the worst, but we're definitely nowhere close to the most open. Hell we have a branch of government devoted to manning a virtual wall between ourselves and another country, and another branch that spends time patrolling the nation looking for "threats to our nation's health" and either deporting them back to their home country or locking them up without warrants because they're deemed threats. Xenophobic could be a nice title for the system of immigration that the U.S. propagates right now. Also, you have to prove they harm us. It's like, asking us to prove that fairies don't exist when you make the claim that they do. You have to prove that they do, we aren't capable of proving the opposite of a stupid claim.

[QUOTE=Ridge;40283832]The US has the most open immigration system in the entire world. If we are stopping people from entering, it's because we're FULL. [editline]14th April 2013[/editline] Can you prove they don't?[/QUOTE] There is no real notion that a country can be "full", people immigrate to a country because there is enough need in that country to warrant the immigrant and the immigrant has a strong enough desire to completely uproot their life. If the US was "full" than there would naturally follow low immigration, because there wouldn't be a reason to immigrate to the US. As I said before, so what if America has the most open immigration system in the world? (I still don't know if the US actually has the most open immigration system still) The US immigration system still creates a culture that allows employers and the federal government to exploit a significant portion of the population.

[QUOTE=Valnar;40284160]There is no real notion that a country can be "full", people immigrate to a country because there is enough need in that country to warrant the immigrant and the immigrant has a strong enough desire to completely uproot their life.[/QUOTE] We've got more people than jobs for them. We're full.

[QUOTE=Ridge;40284387]We've got more people than jobs for them. We're full.[/QUOTE] This is bullshit. If this was true, countries with high populations would report high unemployment rates.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40273489]The 13 years is only for undocumenteds seeking legal citizenship, it's actually much easier and faster to just enter legally.[/QUOTE] Oops! You're right, I was way off with 13. [url=http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg]It can be more like 28[/url]

[QUOTE=Ridge;40284387]We've got more people than jobs for them. We're full.[/QUOTE] You seemed to ignore the line right under the line you quoted. [QUOTE=Valnar;40284160]If the US was "full" than there would naturally follow low immigration, because there wouldn't be a reason to immigrate to the US.[/QUOTE]

wow 72 xenophobes on the board.

[QUOTE=draugur;40271255]Uhm, that's not legal, you cannot punish people for a crime committed before something became a law, sorry. I don't care if they're not citizens, it's still a law. Instead, set it to a few days in the future, and bam, problem solved.[/QUOTE] That's like condemning the Jews that lived before Jesus, bro.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40286011]wow 72 xenophobes on the board.[/QUOTE] My grandparents are immigrants, my mother is an immigrant, I have friends in Britain, Germany, Mexico, and Bahrain, I have nothing wrong with foreigners, immigrants or immigration. The argument that being against illegal immigrants makes you xenophobic is inherently flawed and downright nonsensical.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;40285959]Except for the fact that rumors spread, and the US, even when jobless, might still be better than the shithole you live in now?[/QUOTE] People don't immigrate to be jobless. You are making up a hypothetical situation that doesn't deal with any of the points I brought up.

GENERALLY people immigrate to first world countries to have a better life.

13 years to citizenship, and an arbitrary cutoff date where nobody will be able to even think about citizenship. This is seriously the best solution you assholes can even talk about, let alone do? Maybe we'll have better luck with the current Republican plan of tanking the economy until all the brown people decide to leave on their own.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;40286268]13 years to citizenship, and an arbitrary cutoff date where nobody will be able to even think about citizenship. This is seriously the best solution you assholes can even talk about, let alone do? Maybe we'll have better luck with the current Republican plan of tanking the economy until all the brown people decide to leave on their own.[/QUOTE] The fruits of bipartisanship :dance:

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40286206]My grandparents are immigrants, my mother is an immigrant, I have friends in Britain, Germany, Mexico, and Bahrain, I have nothing wrong with foreigners, immigrants or immigration. The argument that being against illegal immigrants makes you xenophobic is inherently flawed and downright nonsensical.[/QUOTE] nah because you are saying that some people don't have rights or dignity just because of the method or dedication with which they enter the country. "You who are so-called illegal aliens must know that no human being is ‘illegal’. That is a contradiction in terms. Human beings can be beautiful or more beautiful, they can be fat or skinny, they can be right or wrong, but illegal? How can a human being be illegal?" - elie wiesel

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40273489]The 13 years is only for undocumenteds seeking legal citizenship, it's actually much easier and faster to just enter legally.[/QUOTE] Took my qualified uncle from Scotland, who makes six figures, 8 years to become a citizen. Yeah, much faster.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40286206]My grandparents are immigrants, my mother is an immigrant, I have friends in Britain, Germany, Mexico, and Bahrain, I have nothing wrong with foreigners, immigrants or immigration. The argument that being against illegal immigrants makes you xenophobic is inherently flawed and downright nonsensical.[/QUOTE] Except, is there even an argument against undocumented people that can't be ascribed to either xenophobia or side effects of the immigration system?

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40273489]The 13 years is only for undocumenteds seeking legal citizenship, it's actually much easier and faster to just enter legally.[/QUOTE] Hey bro every time this topic comes up you spit out some unsourced BS. I've waited 6 years so far living the "American citizen" way of life and am not a citizen yet. I have to wait a couple of years for legal citizenship from my parents. I actually just paid my taxes today and going to work later on selling to "American citizens" and providing service. This nonsense about illegals not contributing to USA society has to stop. We're on your side and just want to make USA better.

[QUOTE=Ridge;40272585]They can still go the legal route. The route they SHOULD have gone to begin with.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand. People swim to the US on fucking tires because they find [i]that[/i] easier than trying to emigrate "legally."

if too many people immigrate to america, it will become too heavy and sink into the sea

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40290672]if too many people immigrate to america, it will become too heavy and sink into the sea[/QUOTE] ya it's already happening with Florida haven't u read about the sinkholes