National BLM organization denounces Wichita BBQ, "Not in line with our principles"
92 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Conscript;50762699]Black proles > state enforcers of a racialized class hierarchy on whatever spectrum of innocence you're looking at
The history of police in the US and the UK proves cops are more political than crime fighters. They evolved rapidly in the 19th and 20th century to various things that ultimately boil down to matters of class and race, things like slave revolts, draft riots, and labor unrest[/QUOTE]
You can dress it up however you want. Someone shooting a cop who committed no crime is just a common murderer, nothing more, nothing less.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50762714]has anyone ever explained what exactly they mean when they say they want more police accountability? like, what is the endgame there? what would a more accountable police force look like? what are some steps to get there?[/QUOTE]
No because that would require actual thought. It's far easier for activists to make signs, hurl insults, and tweet.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50762733]You can dress it up however you want. Someone shooting a cop who committed no crime is just a common murderer, nothing more, nothing less.[/QUOTE]
It really depends on the context
I really doubt any of you are beyond political violence of any sort given the conditions, so it's hard to take the moralizing on a game forum seriously.
Obviously I'm not saying all cop killing is excused, but citing any incidences period as a reason why black lefties are bad is stupid. History doesn't just stop working when you claim your society is democratic and full of opportunity, or that everyone has a right to this or that. Cops die because despite all the propaganda we never got past issues of race + class and they're on the front lines of that, same with thugs. It's not good or bad, the recent history of humanity is just a history of class and racial conflict unresolved thus far. Who'd have guessed the underclass and the state police kill each other over and over, and this would politically manifest further as left versus right, who would kill each other some more?
[quote=Karissa Lewis]“Barbecue’s [sic] aren’t going to stop the brutality that black folks are facing. A barbecue is definitely not going to stop this blockade. And as a radical-black farmer from East Oakland— I eat pigs, I don’t eat with them.”[/quote]
You might disagree with her message, but you gotta give her props for the pun.
[URL="http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/22/blm-rejects-cookout-invite-police-eat-pigs-dont-eat/"]Source[/URL]
Aw sweet my home town!
It's always felt like the relationship between the black community and the police in Wichita was pretty good, so this isn't a super surprising thing.
[QUOTE=Conscript;50762745]It really depends on the context[/QUOTE]
I could say the exact same thing about the police violence you think makes all cops valid targets
[editline]23rd July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flameon;50762758]You might disagree with her message, but you gotta give her props for the pun.
[URL="http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/22/blm-rejects-cookout-invite-police-eat-pigs-dont-eat/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
what a disgusting, hateful person
that isn't even a pun
[QUOTE=Flameon;50762758]You might disagree with her message, but you gotta give her props for the pun.
[URL="http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/22/blm-rejects-cookout-invite-police-eat-pigs-dont-eat/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
She deliberately dehuminizes the police with that. They have no intention of actually fixing things. They just want police to disappear and it's that toxic mentality that's led to the several recent shootings the past month.
[QUOTE=Conscript;50762745]It really depends on the context[/QUOTE]
maybe if you only think of your own opinions on it. all killing cops will do is lead to greater authoritarianism. the public won't see it as a noble crusade to save an oppressed people but a bunch of lunatics with revenge fantasies.
the public isn't behind you and they never will be behind you so long as you murder innocent people. you are your own worst enemy and you don't even know it you're so wrapped up in class divisions.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50762714]has anyone ever explained what exactly they mean when they say they want more police accountability? like, what is the endgame there? what would a more accountable police force look like? what are some steps to get there?[/QUOTE]
I would like to see a more accountable police force, and by that I mean,
Mandatory body camera systems on all officers, and the ability for the public, when it does not compromise an ongoing investigation or the safety of officers involved to be able to request and be given footage of their personal involvements with officers. I don't hear people talking about this, but as a tax payer who is paying for the system, to be able to have access to records involving me would be nice.
More individual officer accountability for their actions. They should be held to a high standard and liable to lose their positions and ability to be in law enforcement if they act beyond the law. This again is where the cameras come in.
More community involvement, they need to have the idea driven into them that they are members of the community, not members of an organization above the law. The us against them mentality is harmful which unfortunately is understandable since they are on the frontline of dealing with the worst people we've got to offer, daily.
Just an overall dismantling from within of the image that law enforcement members are above the law and can do whatever they please. We're all on the same team.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;50762791]I would like to see a more accountable police force, and by that I mean,
Mandatory body camera systems on all officers, and the ability for the public, when it does not compromise an ongoing investigation or the safety of officers involved to be able to request and be given footage of their personal involvements with officers. I don't hear people talking about this, but as a tax payer who is paying for the system, to be able to have access to records involving me.
More individual officer accountability for their actions. They should be held to a high standard and liable to lose their positions and ability to be in law enforcement if they act beyond the law. This again is where the cameras come in.
More community involvement, they need to have the idea driven into them that they are members of the community, not members of an organization above the law. The us against them mentality which unfortunately is understandable since they are on the frontline of dealing with the worst people we've got to offer, daily.
Just an overall dismantling from within of the image that law enforcement members are above the law and can do whatever they please. We're all on the same team.[/QUOTE]
thank you, i can agree with all of those. i'd say that this BBQ was a great step at bringing the community and the police together in a way that synthesizes them into a whole, it is a shame the BLM-DC did not see it the same way
anything that has to do with reality and actually repairing the damage in this country is not in line with BLM's principles, shocker
[QUOTE=Flameon;50762758]You might disagree with her message, but you gotta give her props for the pun.
[URL="http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/22/blm-rejects-cookout-invite-police-eat-pigs-dont-eat/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
this barbeque could easily have the potential to do more than any number of protests. it's a seemingly good example of the [URL="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_hypothesis"]contact hypothesis[/URL]. the more the cops feel they are a part of the community and the community feels they are a part of them, the less likely those same cops are going to abuse that community. instead of abusing some random scumbags (in their eyes), they would be abusing someone they know.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50762789]maybe if you only think of your own opinions on it. all killing cops will do is lead to greater authoritarianism. the public won't see it as a noble crusade to save an oppressed people but a bunch of lunatics with revenge fantasies.
the public isn't behind you and they never will be behind you so long as you murder innocent people. you are your own worst enemy and you don't even know it you're so wrapped up in class divisions.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I used to think the same tbh. But in the last couple years the divisions have come to trump (heh) being american, and I suppose it was arrogant to think American exceptionalism would put us above the currents of history. In the end we were established as a republic for white male property owners and we have never seen a revolution of any kind in over 200 years, so it's unsurprising we have like a boiling pot consisting of issues of class and race that continues to be a problem. Additionally, we are coming to that 10 generations/250 years special point for an empire
Also, all revolutions are deeply divisive and never waged with the support of 'the public'. It's mostly fought within the public
I'm not even trying to be edgy or something I'm just saying how disturbing the future looks and it's supported by history
bonding over food has diminished conflict among humans since the dawn of time
[QUOTE=Conscript;50762849]Yea, I used to think the same tbh. But in the last couple years the divisions have come to trump (heh) being american, and I suppose it was arrogant to think American exceptionalism would put us above the currents of history. In the end we were established as a republic for white male property owners and we have never seen a revolution of any kind in over 200 years, so it's unsurprising we have like a boiling pot consisting of issues of class and race that continues to be a problem. Additionally, we are coming to that 10 generations/250 years special point for an empire
Also, all revolutions are deeply divisive and never waged with the support of 'the public'. It's mostly fought within the public
I'm not even trying to be edgy or something I'm just saying how disturbing the future looks and where I think it fits in with the rest of history[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the Civil War counts as a revolution.
Pretty stupid. Local BLM chapters frustrate the shit out of me - spontaneous events like the cookout and minor protests in smaller towns under the BLM banner (without the power-tripping chapter organizers) are phenomenal.
Again - this is the person running the DC chapter's Twitter. I haven't heard anyone else complain about the cookout - I've actually seen a lot of my friends on Facebook who are vocal BLM supporters (to a fault) share it and comment about it. Very annoyed at these local chapters - DC, Toronto, and to some degree Minneapolis as well.
[QUOTE=DuCT;50762883]I'm pretty sure the Civil War counts as a revolution.[/QUOTE]
The civil war was about the system disposing of old shit like slavery that got in the way of modernity (capitalism) and liberal values we were supposed to be based on. It was fought by a high level of the state which controlled the areas with the most historical progress (like industry and education) against a lower level of the state which was representing reactionary land-owning elites who weren't actually being erased by industrialization, but actually getting stronger.
The whole thing was about resolving a contradiction the founding fathers saw since day one. America doesn't truly change, that's why it's America and in the 21st century we're one of the most right wing liberal democracies and are plagued with class and racial problems. You need to recognize this before you can really appraise either the panthers or BLM, imo
[QUOTE=Conscript;50762849]Yea, I used to think the same tbh. But in the last couple years the divisions have come to trump (heh) being american, and I suppose it was arrogant to think American exceptionalism would put us above the currents of history. In the end we were established as a republic for white male property owners and we have never seen a revolution of any kind in over 200 years, so it's unsurprising we have like a boiling pot consisting of issues of class and race that continues to be a problem
Also, all revolutions are deeply divisive and never waged with the support of 'the public'. It's mostly fought within the public
I'm not even trying to be edgy I'm just saying how disturbing the future looks and where I think it fits in with the rest of history[/QUOTE]
i disagree that violence is necessary now. it may become so in the future, but i still think that nonviolent approaches can lead to things getting better rather than, through use of violence, things getting much, much worse before they maybe will get better. i only see violence, at this stage, as a way to hasten a collapse that has no guarantee of being built into something better. yes, it has a chance of coming out as something great for everyone, but it has (in my eyes) an far greater chance of ending up terribly for everyone with no guarantee of getting better. it is a gamble and the odds sre not in your favor.
personally, i don't think most people who have espoused the use of violence have any idea what that exactly entails. revolution has been romanticized to a dangerous degree, and it seems like most of those who think a violent one is a good idea aren't even training for the war they want to fight.
[QUOTE=Flameon;50762758]You might disagree with her message, but you gotta give her props for the pun.
[URL="http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/07/22/blm-rejects-cookout-invite-police-eat-pigs-dont-eat/"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
A lot of people in BLM sure are prejudiced towards farm pigs.
"You idiots! I said shootout with the police, not cookout!"
I was just warming up to BLM after trying to understand them more and see what good they're trying to do, but then they go out and say this
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50763167]I was just warming up to BLM after trying to understand them more and see what good they're trying to do, but then they go out and say this[/QUOTE]
This is where the problem lies. BLM, from the looks of it, seems like a thousand different movements under one banner, and since anyone can join, they range from people genuinely wanting positive change to black nationalists willing to kill others for being police.
I really think there needs to be a start over - something like the old NAACP, using protests, political connections and community outreach to achieve change. I think that could work extremely well.
Guys I am the president of BLM, and I now say this Cookout is officially bombastic.
Unbelievable. so they just want to keep making a divide between people. Why isn't the FBI cracking down on them? They are basically terrorists at this point.
How isn't this any different than a KKK-like fringe group, stating that they don't want to make things any better?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/YsVVBck.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/iYnGmAr.jpg[/img]
I can't believe that this man said these words, over a century ago.
Fuck BLM. Seriously, fuck BLM.
[editline]23rd July 2016[/editline]
I want these people, to tell their toddlers, with a straight face "see son, this is the shitty world I'm creating for you. Thanks to my belligerent attitude, complete lack of apathy and lack of desire for a change, the world you'll grow up in will probably end up just like mine. I'm not making things any easier for you, in the long run, on the contrary."
Fuck, I'm so pissed.
[quote]I can't believe that this man said these words, over a century ago[/quote]
It's very weird that someone said those words a hundred years ago when black people were in a much worse position. I'll point out that his legacy is mixed and that opponents of his within the black community set up the NAACP - who would go on to be [I]very[/I] successful in fighting against racism and discrimination in the 50s.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50763646]It's very weird that someone said those words a hundred years ago when black people were in a much worse position. I'll point out that his legacy is mixed and that opponents of his within the black community set up the NAACP - who would go on to be [I]very[/I] successful in fighting against racism and discrimination in the 50s.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I've recently found out about Booker T. Washington, and I have to say, he was mind-blowingly progressive for his era, and certainly an inspiration for Martin Luther King. He wanted to follow his footsteps.
But I still can't believe there's no one, not a *single* person who echoes his ideals today. It's absolutely devastating to know that every achievement he's done, is being undone by BLM. And it pisses me off to no end - and I'm not even American, FFS.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50763672]But I still can't believe there's no one, not a *single* person who echoes his ideals today. It's absolutely devastating to know that every achievement he's done, is being undone by BLM. And it pisses me off to no end - and I'm not even American, FFS.[/QUOTE]
I'd call it hyperbolic to suggest that every achievement he's ever had is being undone. What's worsening right now is race relations - which has been mentioned as one of his achievements in the limited information I have on him. Certainly there are extremest elements in BLM that need to be checked, but you have to remember there are a lot more moderate BLMers out there that have been caught in a movement with a thousand faces.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50763692]I'd call it hyperbolic to suggest that every achievement he's ever had is being undone. What's worsening right now is race relations - which has been mentioned as one of his achievements in the limited information I have on him. Certainly there are extremest elements in BLM that need to be checked, but you have to remember there are a lot more moderate BLMers out there that have been caught in a movement with a thousand faces.[/QUOTE]
"Moderate BLMers" might as well translate to "moderate KKK members". I just think the whole ideology behind the movement is poisonous -- I just want to know 5 (five) achievements obtained by BLM. I don't think there is none.
I'm being a bit hyperbolic on Mr. Washington, yes, but it pains me to see that no one is keeping his legacy, or MLK's memory, alive. All they wanted was to level up blacks and whites, but these people keep pushing their "us vs them" ideology, and it's disgusting and all they're doing is fucking up their children's future, by making it worse for them. Obviously they don't care, since they'll be old hags by then.
I just can't stand reading about this blatant xenophobia, they just keep making things worse and worse.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50763747]"Moderate BLMers" might as well translate to "moderate KKK members".[/QUOTE]
You're not going to help the problem by being completely hyperbolic and making ridiculous statements like that. I mean, hell, we're talking about a moderate BLM event in this thread in the first place!
These fucking "#BLM" cunts [I]deserve[/I] to be stuck in segregation and treated like shit if this is the kind of attitude they espouse. Idiots like this spit on the efforts made by the generations before them to end this shit, why should they be entitled to the rights they demand when they shit all over those same rights at the same time.
If MLK saw it today he'd be disappointed.
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