Whitehouse.gov responds to petition about removing the "Under god" from the pledge of allegience - Polidicks

[QUOTE=thisispain;33019798]that's without a doubt the most ignorant thing i've heard in a while ahhah wow[/QUOTE] and you didn't even have to quote the part where he said the pledge has existed as-is since 1776

I like how we have freedom of religion, yet if you are anything for going into politics, nobody will like you or want you any part of it.

The problem to me is the fact that the one place you'll find the pledge actually performed regularly, and the only place the average person is likely to experience it, is in mandatory government-mandated public schooling. Kids from Kindergarten to Senior Year do the pledge every morning, and though it all DOES sorta' just become a memorized mantra that nobody thinks about, I don't like the idea of a kindergarten student being instructed to say "under god", mainly because I'm entirely opposed to any child indoctrination and recognize it as child abuse. If I'm paying taxes that fund a school for all American citizens, I demand that it be secular, because education MUST be secular.

[QUOTE=J-Dude;33019840]The problem to me is the fact that the one place you'll find the pledge actually performed regularly, and the only place the average person is likely to experience it, is in mandatory government-mandated public schooling. Kids from Kindergarten to Senior Year do the pledge every morning, and though it all DOES sorta' just become a memorized mantra that nobody thinks about, I don't like the idea of a kindergarten student being instructed to say "under god", mainly because I'm entirely opposed to any child indoctrination and recognize it as child abuse. If I'm paying taxes that fund a school for all American citizens, I demand that it be secular, because education MUST be secular.[/QUOTE] This.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;33019816]and you didn't even have to quote the part where he said the pledge has existed as-is since 1776[/QUOTE] i was so amazed by that one first suddenly ages of historical religious criticism and skepticism flies out the window.

[QUOTE=Shiftyze;33019832]I like how we have freedom of religion, yet if you are anything for going into politics, nobody will like you or want you any part of it.[/QUOTE] Tell me about it. In my town everyone obsesses about sports or gossip. Except for a handful of people whose schedules are too busy to talk to anyway I feel like I'm the only one who actually enjoys discussing and debating politics.

I think its slightly ironic God was put into the oath to fight Marxists when the oath was written by a scatterbrain socialist to begin with.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;33019693]They're expected to, and many don't know that they can refuse without getting into trouble[/QUOTE] Um, no, first day of school they tell us that it is a choice blah blah blah, it's in the sylabus, the teachers themselves are rather annoyed by the whole process so nobody is "expected to". Zeke, I don't know where you get your information about America, but somebody has been lying to you.

[QUOTE=The First 11'er;33019498]we have the freedom of religion and you can choose to not fucking say it, plain and simple flakattack, you're an idiot if you're going to rate every post that isn't full of atheism dumb because they don't follow your opinion[/QUOTE] let me say it for you "facepunch is so ignorant1!1!!!"

Who expected this would work? The silent majority of the americans are the god fearing, cold war raised middle class who happen to be also the parents of majority of Facepunch.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;33019946]Um, no, first day of school they tell us that it is a choice blah blah blah, it's in the sylabus, the teachers themselves are rather annoyed by the whole process so nobody is "expected to". Zeke, I don't know where you get your information about America, but somebody has been lying to you.[/QUOTE] I imagine it varies a bit from state to state. Maybe it's rigidly enforced in arizona but hardly bothered with in massachusetts

Why not just say that the phrases fall under Tradition and not Religion? That would legally nullify complaints that is breaches the Constitution. At least that would be the reasoning that I would use if I wanted to keep those two phrases in the pledge of allegiance and in currency.

Isn't it kind of pointless as a non-christian has almost no chance of being president? Due to the fact most of the voters are themselves christian? And you can just ignore the pledge, which I find a pretty strange thing to have so regularly in schools anyway.

[QUOTE=The First 11'er;33019248]I wish it worked like that. I have no fucking clue why people can't simply ignore it. It's not like we don't have a choice to say it or not.[/QUOTE] It's a matter of principle. There's a reason why there are entire foundations like the Freedom From Religion Foundation in America dedicated to fighting the invasion of religion into places where it does not belong, like public schools. By putting the word "God" in your pledge or on your money, you are alienating the people that disagree with the statement, and that's not what the Pledge of Allegiance is about. People are being forced to lie on a daily basis in schools, and if they refuse to say the pledge, or leave out the "under God" part, they're attracting negative attention to themselves, which can and has been a direct cause of serious bullying. I don't see why the Christians of America see the need to distance themselves from non-believers and adherents of other religions. Congress changed several things during the rise of Communism in the 1950's. Most of them are what the secular community are trying to revert now: In 1956 the motto of the USA was changed from "E Pluribus Unum", which is latin for "Out of many, one", to the current "In God We Trust". In 1954, the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance. In the same year, "In God We Trust" was added to all currency (Previously it only said E Pluribus Unum, or nothing.) The problem with all this is that all these things were added out of fear. They attempted to create a sense of unity among Americans who are primarily Christian, by distancing themselves from the atheist Communists. In doing so, they alienated a segment of America's population, just to make the majority feel better about themselves, and that's NOT a good reason. Especially not when your country's very first amendment states that the government shouldn't hold any religion (or lack thereof) in higher regard than any other, which is exactly what these changes do. Sorry about that rant, but it just really bothers me when people can't see the problem with people being oppressed. "Just ignore it" is about as good as advice as telling a homosexual to "Just not tell anyone".

[QUOTE=person11;33020102]Why not just say that the phrases fall under Tradition and not Religion? That would legally nullify complaints that is breaches the Constitution. At least that would be the reasoning that I would use if I wanted to keep those two phrases in the pledge of allegiance and in currency.[/QUOTE] It's on the currency and in public schools, you can't just say "it's tradition" and waive all responsibility.

I'd rather have "Long live 'merica" be on the dollar than "In God We Trust" Controversy is annoying

[QUOTE=Dextro;33020149]I'd rather have "Long live 'merica" be on the dollar than "In God We Trust" Controversy is annoying[/QUOTE] Yeah, even a simple "Long Live the Union" would be fine.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33020141]It's on the currency and in public schools, you can't just say "it's tradition" and waive all responsibility.[/QUOTE] Tradition for the sake of tradition is pretty stupid too

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33020141]It's on the currency and in public schools, you can't just say "it's tradition" and waive all responsibility.[/QUOTE] I was not saying that I, in any way, agree with the use of the phrases. I just think the reasoning from the White House could have been much simpler and less legally ambiguous if they simply argued that the phrases are old enough to be considered tradition, and do not necessarily evoke any type of religious affiliation or organization within the state.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33020173]Yeah, even a simple "Long Live the Union" would be fine.[/QUOTE] Or "In god/gods some trust" :v:

Haha, what's the point to all these Whitehouse.gov responses when they do jack shit to influence real change

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;33020220]Haha, what's the point to all these Whitehouse.gov responses when they do jack shit to influence real change[/QUOTE] All responses have basically said "Lol nope."

People in America finally got reasonable

[QUOTE=znk666;33020265]People in America finally got reasonable[/QUOTE]says the slav who's only grasp of american culture is through television and jokes people make online

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33020311]says the slav who's only grasp of american culture is through television and jokes people make online[/QUOTE] Says the yank who's only grasp of Slavic culture is that THEY ARE EVIL COMMIES!!!

As an atheist the only reason I am pissed about the whole God thing in the pledge is because we used it to prove our moral superiority over the enemy.

Respect and tolerate our opinion and beliefs, but FUCK YOU - we won't respect yours. Sincerely, the retards who support this.

[QUOTE=Paravin;33020837]Respect and tolerate our opinion and beliefs, but FUCK YOU - we won't respect yours. Sincerely, the retards who support this.[/QUOTE] What?

So in reality, all whitehouse.gov is designed for is so that people can pretend their voices are being heard while nothing changes. Why am I entirely unsurprised?

[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;33020720]As an atheist the only reason I am pissed about the whole God thing in the pledge is because we used it to prove our moral superiority over the enemy.[/QUOTE] Agree. It's basically saying that atheists are worse people than theists.