You don't need much space to have sex, according to Singaporean minister of state
70 replies, posted
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;51193509]What the fuck.[/QUOTE]
yeah totes man
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51193407]what a cynical and somewhat selfish way to look at child rearing[/QUOTE]
It's also the truth. If you give a damn about your kids, you're going to pretty much end or constrain all your personal concerns and concentrate on theirs to a much larger degree, unless you're an asshole.
You really think the army of nannies that tag along with celebrities who still live the way they did prekid is an accident? Those are the people actually raising the kid.
I find it ironic that it usually is left-wingers (rather than supposedly selfish conservatives) of all people who have been inculcated with such hedonistic and self-interested ideas that cannot see a benefit if it isn't directly to them
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51193407]what a cynical and somewhat selfish way to look at child rearing[/QUOTE]
But kinda true.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51193555]I find it ironic that it usually is left-wingers (rather than supposedly selfish conservatives) of all people who have been inculcated with such hedonistic and self-interested ideas that cannot see a benefit if it isn't directly to them[/QUOTE]
Really can't see where the irony is coming from, seeing as things like abortion, contraceptives and divorce from marriage are all choices increasingly more available to couples. I think they're good things honestly, having more control over whether you want your family to have babies means you can avoid responsibilities you're not yet ready to take care of.
[QUOTE=Chopstick;51193648]Really can't see where the irony is coming from, seeing as things like abortion, contraceptives and divorce from marriage are all choices increasingly more available to couples. I think they're good things honestly, having more control over whether you want your family to have babies means you can avoid responsibilities you're not yet ready to take care of.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say any of those are bad things. I said that viewing children purely through the prism of 'can I maximise my own hedonic enjoyment this way?' is a bad way to live life. There are plenty of reasons why you legitimately might not want children, but the previous isn't in my view since in reality hedonic happiness doesn't really make you that happy in the long-run. But I'm rambling and if you really think that maximising your personal enjoyment (narrowly defined in a hedonic way) at all expense is the best way to live, then go ahead.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51193728]Plenty of people live without having kids. See that's the whole beauty of the whole free will thing, there are a lot of ways one can live their life and be completely happy with it[/QUOTE]
What, you're saying that, in a modern industrialized society, there can be more purpose to one's life than cumming in a vag and queefing out babies!? I don't fucking believe you, sounds far-fetched to me.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51193653]I didn't say any of those are bad things. I said that viewing children purely through the prism of 'can I maximise my own hedonic enjoyment this way?' is a bad way to live life. There are plenty of reasons why you legitimately might not want children, but the previous isn't in my view since in reality hedonic happiness doesn't really make you that happy in the long-run. But I'm rambling and if you really think that maximising your personal enjoyment (narrowly defined in a hedonic way) at all expense is the best way to live, then go ahead.[/QUOTE]
Ah right, perhaps you had meant something like how contraceptives and abortion give way to an easier lifestyle choice of sex for hedonistic purposes. I can't really agree there because I don't really care much for the moral objectiveness of sex for fun but yeah, it's fairly obvious it's only going to provide some fun in the short term rather than the long term (no one's going to get sexier with age I guess). It's really not something I have considered at all, I don't want children. Actually having children for fun purposes is going to be short lived because you really have to plan ahead and make sure that child is going to be parented properly. It's certainly not a decision for everyone.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51193426]fuck kids i wanna live life[/QUOTE]
Who says you can't live life if you have kids?
I understand it's not for everyone but there is a point in my life where I know I'll hit where I'll really want to have kids, what else am I gonna do besides work and fuck? At least raising kids would be fulfilling.
Never wanted a child but I'm looking to adopt a prodigy child with an IQ of 200 so that when he's older he could take care of me until I retire.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51193728]Plenty of people live without having kids. See that's the whole beauty of the whole free will thing, there are a lot of ways one can live their life and be completely happy with it[/QUOTE]
i know that is entirely possible, and if you can do that then have at it. i just think it is incredibly short-sighted to rule out ever having children at such a young age
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=froztshock;51193743]What, you're saying that, in a modern industrialized society, there can be more purpose to one's life than cumming in a vag and queefing out babies!? I don't fucking believe you, sounds far-fetched to me.[/QUOTE]
why are you being so hostile?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51193845]i know that is entirely possible, and if you can do that then have at it. i just think it is incredibly short-sighted to rule out ever having children at such a young age[/QUOTE]
It's already difficult for young people to live by themselves in the world as we know it, having a child share the limited resources is in no way assisting to the child's development.
[QUOTE=gufu;51193915]It's already difficult for young people to live by themselves in the world as we know it, having a child share the limited resources is in no way assisting to the child's development.[/QUOTE]
i'm not advocating having children when you can't afford it or even having children when you're especially young. hell, i'm not even expecting to have children until i'm in my early 30s. i'm saying people shouldn't categorically rule it out
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51194021]i'm not advocating having children when you can't afford it or even having children when you're especially young. hell, i'm not even expecting to have children until i'm in my early 30s. i'm saying people shouldn't categorically rule it out[/QUOTE]
Well, you can't really rule it out on degree of it being possible - after all, mistakes do happen. It's just highly unlikely that it can be done properly at a young age, to a great extent.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;51193819]Who says you can't live life if you have kids?
I understand it's not for everyone but there is a point in my life where I know I'll hit where I'll really want to have kids, what else am I gonna do besides work and fuck? At least raising kids would be fulfilling.[/QUOTE]
People don't always find the same things to be fulfilling.
[QUOTE=gufu;51193915]having a child share the limited resources is in no way assisting to the child's development.[/QUOTE]
Limited resources, compared to what? A decade or two ago?
We have an abundance of resources, luxuries and services that humans never used to have before.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51194279]Limited resources, compared to what? A decade or two ago?
We have an abundance of resources, luxuries and services that humans never used to have before.[/QUOTE]
Wonderful, can you provide all of them to your child to the point where their development will be sufficient or at least equal to their well off peers?
[QUOTE=phaedon;51194279]Limited resources, compared to what? A decade or two ago?
We have an abundance of resources, luxuries and services that humans never used to have before.[/QUOTE]
Sure, we have an abundance of resources.. the problem is the distribution and availability of those resources to those who need them.
[QUOTE=gufu;51194293]Wonderful, can you provide all of them to your child to the point where their development will be sufficient or at least equal to their well off peers?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;51194309]Sure, we have an abundance of resources.. the problem is the distribution and availability of those resources to those who need them.[/QUOTE]
Class struggles have been a thing for a [i]long[/i] time. People having disproportionate access to resources and having more opportunities in life has been a thing forever.
The fact is that in the West, our working and middle classes live more luxuriously than royalty would have, no too long ago. People in the past managed to bear and help develop children with a lot less.
Sure, having a kid is hard and might even be antithetical to some modern lifestyles, but bringing up scarcity of resources as something that makes the development of a child impossible is a joke.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;51194166]People don't always find the same things to be fulfilling.[/QUOTE]
That's fair, I find it hard to understand but I'm willing to accept it regardless.
Just the way I am, I personally can't stomach the idea of passing away with nobody around.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51194340]
Sure, having a kid is hard and might even be antithetical to some modern lifestyles, but bringing up scarcity of resources as something that makes the development of a child impossible is a joke.[/QUOTE]
You can be homeless and without a cent to your name, and you can still have a child. That hardly makes the situation any better for anyone involved, and brings little to society overall.
[QUOTE=gufu;51194356]You can be homeless and without a cent to your name, and you can still have a child.[/quote]
Working and middle class families are not homeless. I am assuming you are bringing up this example of an extreme situation to support your previous argument of non-rich children having a worse education than rich children.
As I said previously, that's always been the case, and always will be, unless scarcity of resources stops being a thing, somehow. It's not a new development, and it's not something that stops you from having well developed children.
[quote]brings little to society overall.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, unless you are facing demographic collapse. Pensions don't pay themselves.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51194378]Yeah, unless you are facing demographic collapse. Pensions don't pay themselves.[/QUOTE]
Assuming that the child born and grown up on literal streets will be able to get an occupation where they are able to provide part of their income for pension plans, sure.
[QUOTE=gufu;51194419][b]Assuming that the child born and grown up on literal streets[/b] will be able to get an occupation where they are able to provide part of their income for pension plans, sure.[/QUOTE]
Read my post again, please.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51194440]Read my post again, please.[/QUOTE]
Except that I'm merely providing an extreme example, not trying to say that EVERYONE can't do it. And there is more to child's development than education.
All of my siblings have had their kids, I'm good no need for me to chip in. After how much of a pain in the ass I was as a kid I'd rather not go through the same. My parents always say otherwise and that I was very well behaved compared to my sisters but nah.
If you find child rearing fulfilling then go do it, great for you! If you're like me and rather not settle down and have more money to spend on yourself power to you.
Maybe I'll adopt. There are already kids out there who need a good home. Flesh and blood is just a biological link. The bond between two people is what really matters.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51194596]Maybe I'll adopt. There are already kids out there who need a good home. Flesh and blood is just a biological link. The bond between two people is what really matters.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, that's what I'd like to do. Have enough more than enough money for yourself? Cool, go save some kid from a shitty life in an orphanage.
To be honest kids in your twenties is a bad idea for a lot of young people.
We HAVE to give our time up to companies and jobs in disproportionate manners to those older than us to get compensated. Most young people I know work long hours, hard jobs, and don't get paid much. And those seem like constants in our lives that don't change.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
That's not conducive to good parenting IMO.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51194840]To be honest kids in your twenties is a bad idea for a lot of young people.
We HAVE to give our time up to companies and jobs in disproportionate manners to those older than us to get compensated. Most young people I know work long hours, hard jobs, and don't get paid much. And those seem like constants in our lives that don't change.
[editline]12th October 2016[/editline]
That's not conducive to good parenting IMO.[/QUOTE]
Furthermore a lot of people want to give their all to their children, and they understand that the amount of dedication and time for that simply cannot coexist with the careers they and their parents want them to pursue.
[QUOTE=gufu;51194608]To be honest, that's what I'd like to do. Have enough more than enough money for yourself? Cool, go save some kid from a shitty life in an orphanage.[/QUOTE]
For me it's also my ADD/ADHD. I have it, my sister has it, my dad has it and my grandfather probably had it.
Fathers are more likely to pass it on, and parents with ADHD are most likely going to have a child with it. I'd rather not doom my offspring to a existence of constant medication and struggling in school as well as general day to day life.
Adopting a kid who most likely doesn't have any conditions like that and in need of a home opens up space at that orphanage and gives that kid a better chance at life as well as gives hope to other orphans.
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