Obama defends surveillance effort as "trade-off" for security - Polidicks

[QUOTE=squids_eye;40952472]I honestly don't see why this is such a big deal. The government doesn't care about what you are looking at unless you have already done something to make them suspicious. Why is it that Americans get so riled up about privacy?[/QUOTE] I would rather have the occasional guilty man perpetrate and/or get away with crimes, rather than every single last person in the entire world being treating as a potential crime/terrorist suspect every day of their waking lives. It's not worth demeaning millions of people just to save a couple of lives. SPOILER ALERT: People die all the time, you'll die, I'll die, as I'm typing people are just dying for no reason at all. So what if a few privileged people get their lives cut short by 30 years, why should every last person in the world need to suffer degradation of character on a daily basis just so a couple of people can be safer?

I personally have no problems with them simply checking records to make sure things are fine. Whats the big deal? If they were doing it all this time and we never knew and our lives still aren't in ruins then whats the fucking problem? You all say "yeah obamas such a bitch like monitoring us and shit" but who knows how long this has been going on? Your freedoms are and always have been just fine.

[QUOTE=Sgt.Sgt;40953193]I hate this type of reply. The entirety of the federal government is riddled with ungodly amounts of corruption and its plainly visible. If you trust Obama, or anyone in his administration you are delusional on a level that is beyond comprehension. They have shown time and time again to do the exact opposite of what they say when they run for office. Personal freedom must not be important to you.[/QUOTE] Hate what type of reply? This is how our government has worked for 200 years. We elect the President and Congress, they elect the judges. They all check each other. That's how it's supposed to work. If they all approve something like this, the system is working as it should. It isn't corruption, it's not illegal, it's not unconstitutional, it's not whatever buzzword you feel like using. If anything, it's a lack of initiative from[B] you.[/B] If you disagree with PRISM, do something about it. Sitting on your ass blaming everyone [B]we voted in[/B] last November solves jack all.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;40953123]People who are blaming Obama for this are just looking for a villain to point fingers at. He became President in 2009, PRISM has been running since 2007. This would be happening with or without him.[/QUOTE] He could, you know, shut it down? Like he should have with Guantanamo?

[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;40953064]At this moment in our history, we're caught more in the dystopia of Huxley's Brave New World than we are in Orwell's. [img]http://americandigest.org/aldous_huxley_vs_george_orwell.jpg[/img] But there's definitely a handful of areas where the two are indeed both melding together.[/QUOTE] The person never really read 1984. The proletariat is controlled the same way in 1984 as in Huxleys book. Both have lotteries, the proles are left to themselves, they have access to beer and sex, pornography and crap novels, get celeb gossip, etc. Only difference is that the middle class is controlled in a stalinist style in 1984.

[QUOTE=zombojoe;40953272]He could, you know, shut it down? Like he should have with Guantanamo?[/QUOTE] The President doesn't have absolute power over everything that goes on in government. He might not have even been fully aware of it.

What is it about second term that makes a lot of people stupid I thought Obama was pretty doing good until his second term

[QUOTE=The golden;40953289]Considering how armed the citizenry of the US is - it really is quite surprising how nobody actually does anything about the government despite how unhappy people are about it. Basic protests are so few and far between.[/QUOTE] Probably because no one wants to get punished or die once they protest or do something that could cause them to be in serious trouble. Sure safe protests like boycotts will happen but that's not gonna do jack shit because it won't get the goverment's attention. It'll be an annoyance.

[QUOTE=The golden;40953289]Considering how armed the citizenry of the US is - it really is quite surprising how nobody actually does anything about the government despite how unhappy people are about it. Basic protests are so few and far between.[/QUOTE] for as bad as the government likes to screw with us, life is still pretty damn comfortable

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;40951989]Didn't a wise man once say that a country that must trade freedom for security will deserve neither and lose both? Seriously though....this is some bullshit.[/QUOTE] Solowing for president.

Government don't really fall until the people they depend on lose favour. Basically the people whose power actually counts. In presidential elections for instance, people in safe states have no power or control. It all comes down to the people in swing states, and those are the only people who ever matter. Even then, its the number needed to to win a seat that counts. The original voting bloc is not really required, it's those people who swing the vote in favour of one party that actually count in any democracy.

So if the president is helping the people he's called a Communist. And if he's surveying what we search up on the internet we all scream Facist. You know this is just a cycle right? They do something right "oh hell yah awesome". They do something bad, "FACIST!" "UGH TIME TO GO TO CANADIA" "FUCKING GOVERNMENT MAN". "Hopefully people will start listening for once and we can do something." Not to mention all of these protests are starting to become the same. It starts small, then other political groups, socialists, communists, anarchists, nationalists, etc. start joining in, Reddit posts pictures of the whole thing with people helping, police either being nice, going their job, or being dicks, and a shit ton of Anonymous and Guy Fawkes masks. Maybe if we want to fix stuff our first initiative shouldn't be "Let's make signs, and shout loud". Maybe we can call them, or write a bunch of letters, something that isn't just getting the protest signs and the V for Vendetta masks out, or our passports and luggage. [editline]8th June 2013[/editline] [sp]Facepunch needs to stop taking one side or the other. And the rating spam needs to stop too.[/sp]

[QUOTE=rilez;40953253]Hate what type of reply? This is how our government has worked for 200 years. We elect the President and Congress, they elect the judges. They all check each other. That's how it's supposed to work. If they all approve something like this, the system is working as it should. It isn't corruption, it's not illegal, it's not unconstitutional, it's not whatever buzzword you feel like using. If anything, it's a lack of initiative from[B] you.[/B] If you disagree with PRISM, do something about it. Sitting on your ass blaming everyone [B]we voted in[/B] last November solves jack all.[/QUOTE] Nobody in the United States is ever taught how to do anything about it. I got one government class in high school that gave me a rough idea of how the system works. I had to learn it from a textbook that was approved and modified by the people who ran the system it explained. It's not enough to say "Get off your ass and do something!" If I knew what to do, I'd do it, but that information isn't exactly cheap or easy to find. So, please, and I'm being sincere, if you know what to do, tell me or at least tell me where to begin.

[QUOTE=Foxtrot200;40953649]If I knew what to do, I'd do it, but that information isn't exactly cheap or easy to find.[/quote] You have literally the entire internet at your fingers. [quote]So, please, and I'm being sincere, if you know what to do, tell me or at least tell me where to begin.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.usa.gov/[/url]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[QUOTE=Kigen;40953722]"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin[/QUOTE] Yes, this quote was already posted.

Watch how everyone overreacts like it's the end of our freedom as we know it, compares it with completely hyperbolic and invalid analogies like "being locked in a cell and watched 24/7" or "having the police come into your house and rifle through your stuff without a warrant", and then completely forgets about it in a couple months, if not weeks.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;40953809]Watch how everyone overreacts like it's the end of our freedom as we know it, compares it with completely hyperbolic and invalid analogies like "being locked in a cell and watched 24/7" or "having the police come into your house and rifle through your stuff without a warrant", and then completely forgets about it in a couple months, if not weeks.[/QUOTE] Exactly my thoughts.

[QUOTE=Kigen;40953722]"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin[/QUOTE] I think it's funny people quote this so often. Benjamin Franklin was a spy for the Committee of Secret Correspondence, which gathered intelligence on the British in complete secret. Funny, considering PRISM is very similar in function (it doesn't apply to US citizens). I think he had a different opinion of what essential "liberties" were, and I don't think privacy was one of them. We have an implied right to privacy in the Constitution. How that is applied is up to the courts, because they're the ones who decided the right to privacy was implied in the first place (the right to privacy is not explicitly stated in the Constitution)

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;40953809]Watch how everyone overreacts like it's the end of our freedom as we know it, compares it with completely hyperbolic and invalid analogies like "being locked in a cell and watched 24/7" or "having the police come into your house and rifle through your stuff without a warrant", and then completely forgets about it in a couple months, if not weeks.[/QUOTE] People in general are egocentric and are more worried about their job and family than what their government is up to; it's perfectly rational to be like that too.

Wha... fox news was right? He is trying to get rid of our freedom... how the hell? I guess they are able to predict the news from the future.

[QUOTE=Tureis;40953851]People in general are egocentric and are more worried about their job and family than what their government is up to; it's perfectly rational to be like that too.[/QUOTE] What isn't rational is thinking a program with 20$ million in funding is designed to spy on every citizen in the United States.

I don't even understand why everyone's so afraid though. Most of the information they've been gathering I already know they have been for a while, a lot of its public anyways. In fact, companies have been openly gathering most of this information anyways, but no one was screaming about that.

[quote]"You can't have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience," Obama said. "We're going to have to make some choices as a society. ... There are trade-offs involved."[/quote] I didn't actually expect he'd say this, but it's completely true. People are flipping their shit over privacy rights, but let's be honest, the government is between a rock and a hard place ever since the start of the last decade. I do believe there's truth to his statement. We probably would've had more terrorist attacks over the years if it wasn't for this rigorous amount of data mining to find suspects early. If you want this whole shitstorm to stop, tackle the root of the problem. Stop making fucking terrorists by invading their countries and drone striking their families. [QUOTE=rilez;40953886]What isn't rational is thinking a program with 20$ million in funding is designed to spy on every citizen in the United States.[/QUOTE] And several billions were spend to kill people at the other side of the planet. It actually seems rather low for an elaborate spying program. [QUOTE=Solo Wing;40951989]Didn't a wise man once say that a country that must trade freedom for security will deserve neither and lose both? Seriously though....this is some bullshit.[/QUOTE] Oh man it's that fucking statement again. I should look up the elaborate Reddit rant about why this quote was both misattributed and completely out of context in the modern setting. These issues aren't decided with one-liners.

America will do what it wants to secure its interests even if that means bombing countries into oblivion.

I don't want 100% security, Barack. I want privacy. Turn the security back off and let us live our lives in private.

[QUOTE=TestECull;40954333]I don't want 100% security, Barack. I want privacy. Turn the security back off and let us live our lives in private.[/QUOTE] So you'd basically want no government?

[QUOTE=Tureis;40954355]So you'd basically want no government?[/QUOTE] No he said to turn the security back. "100% security" is something you'd hear in a dystopian fascist sci fi novel.

Well he said back "off", so I guess I took it too far.

[QUOTE=TestECull;40954333]I don't want 100% security, Barack. I want privacy. Turn the security back off and let us live our lives in private.[/QUOTE] It's really rather selfish to want privacy so much that you're willing to risk lives. I know that seems like a big victim blaming thing, but honestly one of the only ways to stop crimes is to invade privacy one ways or the other. This is the reality of life, and you're living in a fairytale if you think that a society can function with 100% privacy.