• Obama: "Marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol"
    236 replies, posted
[QUOTE=J!NX;43599889]Ummm no driving while high is 100% safe you see Loriborn, when you are high on weed and driving, you'll stop at a stop sign and wait for it to change, since it's a static object, you never move. therefore, it's completely safe. You can't kill anyone if you never move.[/QUOTE] But it really is safe, you're more cautious while driving. At least I am.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;43599741]the amount of people here justifying driving whilst under the influence is alarming[/QUOTE] Driving is such a mundane thing to people that not many people stop to consider that driving is literally making at least two tons of steel travel at a speed fast enough to kill anything standing in front of it. Driving while high on pot is safer than driving while drunk in the same sense that stabbing yourself with a pen is safer than stabbing yourself with a hunting knife.
[QUOTE=Jagur;43599902]But it really is safe, you're more cautious while driving. at least I am.[/QUOTE] I was mostly just messing around, I don't doubt it but I wouldn't try it personally unless I really had to. [QUOTE=The Calzone;43599916]Driving is such a mundane thing to people that not many people stop to consider that driving is literally making at least two tons of steel travel at a speed fast enough to kill anything standing in front of it. Driving while high on pot is safer than driving while drunk in the same sense that stabbing yourself with a pen is safer than stabbing yourself with a hunting knife.[/QUOTE] I wonder what driving while on crack is like red light, hard break green light, punch the pedel
A friend of mine did his driving test while really high and he passed with flying colours.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43599643]I've never gotten that high in my life and I've greened out before. That sounds like how people are when they're drunk, not stoned[/QUOTE] I have a very low tolerance and I had the house to myself for two days straight. I figured why not.
[QUOTE=Bubz;43599847]I know my tolerance though, if I know I'm too blazed and I'm incapable of walking normal with those weird tingling vibes, I'll just work the dough and cheese gritter until I come down a bit with some water to get back to driving deliveries. It's been a cycle of mine for years and I have a problem resisting peer pressure over some free weed. I need to get a new job.[/QUOTE] fuck it this is a statement that needs proper capitalization One of the big reasons people, like myself, dislike the concept of marijuana use, (or use of any recreational drug, alcohol included) is because one of our primary concerns as people who are reliant and bound by the choices of others, is that those who use these drugs, will do so while behind the wheel or while working. Of course, the argument is always, "well people who drink don't go to work drunk," and that's (most often) true; people who are heavy drinkers don't go to work drunk, and the legality of alcohol doesn't promote drunk driving or being intoxicated while working. However, there seems to be this mentality among cannabis users, (a trend among alcoholics as well) that the negative effects of marijuana use are [B]so[/B] minor, that they do not significantly detract from the abilities of the person who is using the drug. There seems to be this concept that, because marijuana is not as harmful as alcohol, that it's okay to go to work high; as if the slowness of thought processes was a less negative affect than the impulsive behavior caused by intoxication. The truth is, that this impairment of mental processes is just as dangerous as the effects of alcohol use, and just because someone is driving "only 10mph because blazed guys are too scared to speed!" doesn't mean that they aren't a danger to others. In fact, driving significantly under the speed limit is just as dangerous as driving significantly above the speed limit, and while the loss in cognitive speed may not inhibit the repetition of standard practices, (like stopping at a red light or stop sign) it becomes a massive threat when a non-standard issue comes up, like another speeding motorist, or a child who runs into the street, or a sudden change in traffic. That slowdown in mental process may prevent speeding, (for certain individuals; though everyone here is just using anecdotal evidence like "i dont speed when high, so no one that is high ever speeds!" or "my friend drives while high and he is great!") it severely inhibits the driver. You cannot drive defensively if you are under the influence of a psychotropic drug; period. It's not about speeding. It's about the clarity of thought that you lack when something out of the ordinary happens. You may be calm and relaxed and take things slow and cautiously, but everyone else is on regular speed; kids playing, cars driving, (and hell, speeding too) pedestrians turning. Just because [B]you[/B] think you're safer because you drive slowly, doesn't mean you react to others' actions in a thoughtful or safe way. Driving high is more like driving as a senior citizen; you're slow and careful, but you lack the cognitive speed to react appropriately in high stress or sudden situations. It's as bad as people who say "I'm not too drunk to drive" or "I drive better when drunk" and it is legitimately disgusting that anyone can try to justify it. I'm all for legalization, but people who think like this only give the effort a bad name by making these blanket generalizations about how people act while high.
I don't think the effects of marijuana are as severe as you make it seem loriborn
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43600034]I don't think the effects of marijuana are as severe as you make it seem loriborn[/QUOTE] The effects are proportional to the amount taken obviously. The more you inhale/ingest, the more inhibited your general cognitive speed. I don't mind people getting high, be my guest, but the moment that someone's addiction, (which it is if you have the urge to smoke while at work; it's no longer recreation if you are buzzed while doing daily tasks) puts my life, or the lives of my family and friends, in danger, it becomes an issue to me. There is no reason to justify DUI or DWI, it's not safe, and it's very selfish and immature to think that it is.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;43600058]The effects are proportional to the amount taken obviously. The more you inhale/ingest, the more inhibited your general cognitive speed. I don't mind people getting high, be my guest, but the moment that someone's addiction, (which it is if you have the urge to smoke while at work; it's no longer recreation if you are buzzed while doing daily tasks) puts my life, or the lives of my family and friends, in danger, it becomes an issue to me. There is no reason to justify DUI or DWI, it's not safe, and it's very selfish and immature to think that it is.[/QUOTE] The effects are also proportional to a persons tolerance which is a hugely important factor I think you'll find. I don't think people should go to work high, but if they're able to perform a job at the same level as if they were sober I don't think it matters. Heavy machinery obviously shouldn't be involved.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43600071]The effects are also proportional to a persons tolerance which is a hugely important factor I think you'll find. I don't think people should go to work high, but if they're able to perform a job at the same level as if they were sober I don't think it matters. Heavy machinery obviously shouldn't be involved.[/QUOTE] to be fair, a car is basically heavy machinery. Not to disagree with you or anything, of course I agree yes.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43600071]The effects are also proportional to a persons tolerance which is a hugely important factor I think you'll find. I don't think people should go to work high, but if they're able to perform a job at the same level as if they were sober I don't think it matters. Heavy machinery obviously shouldn't be involved.[/QUOTE] This argument is incredibly naive though. You're saying that "if someone believes they can perform decently while high, let them go to work high." What's the difference between that and "if someone believes they can perform decently while drink, let them go to work drunk." Maybe someone actually has a high enough tolerance at the time to suffer no negative affects to their mental ability, but 9 times out of 10, someone who is cognitively impaired is going to believe that their abilities are not impaired at all. Hell, some people actually have this delusional belief that they perform better while drunk/high. If you're high, you're not necessarily going to admit (or believe) that you're suffering any negative affects, or that your mental ability is impaired; the fact that many of you drive while under the influence highlights this. [quote]Results show that if cannabis is consumed before driving a motor vehicle, the risk of collision is nearly doubled. Previous results have also found that there is also a substantially higher chance of collision if the driver is aged 35 or younger. [URL="http://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/02/09/acute-cannabis-consumption-and-motor-vehicle-collision-risk"]source[/URL][/quote] This is just not the case, and I would rather not trust someone who obviously has a physiological dependence* to a drug, (any drug for that matter) to make the decision on whether or not he or she is sober enough to perform well. There will be a bias in their decision that is simply not satisfactory when it comes to a job that may or may not put my life/health in danger. I highly doubt anyone here would try to justify drunk driving, but the justification of DUI is only occurring because those certain people actually do drive under the influence, and that is a very scary thought. *If you take the use of a drug out of purely recreational context, (while at home or with friends for the sake of enjoyment) it is no longer simply a recreational drug, and has become a mental necessity, even if it is just to a minor extent.
[QUOTE=areolop;43597997]This is a stupid argument. Marijuana addiction is just as bad as other addictions. Everyone flips a tit because someone expresses their opinion. Wow. Shocker. The legalization of marijuana is a huge deal that has to be fought in the courts because under federal law it is illegal regardless of what states legalize.[/QUOTE] marijuana addiction is nowhere near as bad as physically addictive drugs
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43600699]marijuana addiction is nowhere near as bad as physically addictive drugs[/QUOTE] Psychological addiction to anything (a drug, habit, action, etc.) can be just as devastating to someone as a physical addiction. They may not suffer the physically degenerative effects, as in the case of alcohol withdrawal, but the mental and personality impairments can be more harmful than physical symptoms if the dependency is strong enough. It depends on the person, and how reliant they are on the specific experience; marijuana is no exception to this. Don't underestimate psychological dependence; it's just as 'real' as physical addiction.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;43600735]Psychological addiction to anything (a drug, habit, action, etc.) can be just as devastating to someone as a physical addiction. They may not suffer the physically degenerative effects, as in the case of alcohol withdrawal, but the mental and personality impairments can be more harmful than physical symptoms if the dependency is strong enough. It depends on the person, and how reliant they are on the specific experience; marijuana is no exception to this. Don't underestimate psychological dependence; it's just as 'real' as physical addiction.[/QUOTE] i disagree entirely. the whole reason physical addictions are so devastating is because they literally make you chemically imbalanced
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43600799]i disagree entirely. the whole reason physical addictions are so devastating is because they literally make you chemically imbalanced[/QUOTE] I know certain drugs overload your dopamine levels so much that you literally become intolerant and the only way you can get that feel is by doing that shit lore and more
A psychological addiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to fucking be. Guess what, you wake up every morning and have a coffee, it wakes you up. You drink it daily. Every morning. It changes your minds state, and makes you feel better. What if a week you can't have coffee? Sure it sucks a little bit, and you have to go without it and get over it. It's annoying, but you don't freak out and go into dependence mode about it. It's the same kind of psychological connection with doing anything a lot. Some people are here addicted to porn I bet, and would fucking cry going a couple days without it. Psychological addictions are everything you like to do, even if that's playing video games. So stop making it like it's some kind of thing only attached to weed. Learn the difference between a psychological addiction and physical.
ofc nothing should go outside of general utility and recreation but weed is not that bad [QUOTE=alexguydude;43600826]A psychological addiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to fucking be. Guess what, you wake up every morning and have a coffee, it wakes you up. You drink it daily. Every morning. It changes your minds state, and makes you feel better. What if a week you can't have coffee? Sure it sucks a little bit, and you have to go without it and get over it. It's annoying, but you don't freak out and go into dependence mode about it. It's the same kind of psychological connection with doing anything a lot. Some people are here addicted to porn I bet, and would fucking cry going a couple days without it. Psychological addictions are everything you like to do, even if that's playing video games. So stop making it like it's some kind of thing only attached to weed. Learn the difference between a psychological addiction and physical.[/QUOTE] but, uhh, Coffee and porn are two different things they're both stimulating but in way different ways.
[QUOTE=J!NX;43600833]ofc nothing should go outside of general utility and recreation but weed is not that bad but, uhh, Coffee and porn are two different things they're both stimulating but in way different ways.[/QUOTE] That's kind of my point. Anything that stimulates you and makes you feel good and that you routinely do could be a "psychological addiction".
[QUOTE=onebit;43594853]If he had said weed was less dangerous it would cause more harm than good. And weed is still a psychotropic, so hallucinations are a factor.[/QUOTE] Man I wish you could hallucinate from weed, that shit just doesn't happen
I'm all for the legalization of recreational weed, hell I even smoke it myself, but if you're going to do it, do it on your own down-time. Don't come to work high, and definitely do NOT drive, I don't give a shit how confident you are in your own skill or how much you smoked where you think you're at an acceptable level. We don't let people drive under the influence of alcohol, why should we let people drive under the influence of marijuana?
[QUOTE=alexguydude;43600826]A psychological addiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to fucking be. Guess what, you wake up every morning and have a coffee, it wakes you up. You drink it daily. Every morning. It changes your minds state, and makes you feel better. What if a week you can't have coffee? Sure it sucks a little bit, and you have to go without it and get over it. It's annoying, but you don't freak out and go into dependence mode about it. It's the same kind of psychological connection with doing anything a lot. Some people are here addicted to porn I bet, and would fucking cry going a couple days without it. Psychological addictions are everything you like to do, even if that's playing video games. So stop making it like it's some kind of thing only attached to weed. Learn the difference between a psychological addiction and physical.[/QUOTE] Uh, that isn't what caffeine addiction or psychological addiction is.
[QUOTE=alexguydude;43600826]A psychological addiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to fucking be. Guess what, you wake up every morning and have a coffee, it wakes you up. You drink it daily. Every morning. It changes your minds state, and makes you feel better. What if a week you can't have coffee? Sure it sucks a little bit, and you have to go without it and get over it. It's annoying, but you don't freak out and go into dependence mode about it. It's the same kind of psychological connection with doing anything a lot. Some people are here addicted to porn I bet, and would fucking cry going a couple days without it. Psychological addictions are everything you like to do, even if that's playing video games. So stop making it like it's some kind of thing only attached to weed. Learn the difference between a psychological addiction and physical.[/QUOTE] caffeine is a stimulant and you can get physically addicted to it. people get hospitalised for it.
[QUOTE=alexguydude;43600826]A psychological addiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to fucking be. Guess what, you wake up every morning and have a coffee, it wakes you up. You drink it daily. Every morning. It changes your minds state, and makes you feel better. What if a week you can't have coffee? Sure it sucks a little bit, and you have to go without it and get over it. It's annoying, but you don't freak out and go into dependence mode about it. It's the same kind of psychological connection with doing anything a lot. Some people are here addicted to porn I bet, and would fucking cry going a couple days without it. Psychological addictions are everything you like to do, even if that's playing video games. So stop making it like it's some kind of thing only attached to weed. Learn the difference between a psychological addiction and physical.[/QUOTE] umm caffeine is a drug, and like all drugs, you'll grow dependent on it if you're not cautious.
[QUOTE=thisispain;43601410]caffeine is a stimulant and you can get physically addicted to it. people get hospitalised for it.[/QUOTE] yeah this does happen though I think we should note at some level that there is an actual achievable LD50 for caffiene
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;43594887]Neither one has ever affected me, and I'm quite proud of that fact.[/QUOTE] Both has affected me, and I'm quite proud to have done so while taking full responsibility for my health, actions and conscience.
Can't believe people are arguing for driving under the influence. You don't drive drunk, you don't drive high, end of discussion.
I disagree. If someone were to drink more, rather than smoke more, I bet the damages internally and depending how much they had, around their surroundings them would be worse. I'm not interested in smoking weed and nor will I ever but it's safe to say at the moment that weed shouldn't be misjudged as a dangerous drug that's worse than alcohol. Surely like the person above, neither of them should be used while driving. [sp] omg you have an opinion i will rate you dumb [/sp]
[QUOTE=Mabus;43604403]Can't believe people are arguing for driving under the influence. You don't drive drunk, you don't drive high, end of discussion.[/QUOTE] Don't drive under the influence of caffeine either because that can be pretty dangerous too.
Does this statement have any sort of actual implications for legalization or will it end up being largely ignored? Also, in my opinion, I'm against driving under any sort of influence. I'm a large believer that people know what their bodies are capable of and what they can and can not handle, but I classify driving while high the same as driving while drunk. While doing so while high, I acknowledge, is LESS risky, it's still not something I'm comfortable with, when someone could be so baked that they can hardly get off the couch plans to get behind the wheel because "Bro, I can totally handle it." That being said, I'm still absolutely pro-weed. To the point my friends probably hate me for being so outspoken for it. Glad to hear someone in a position so powerful as Obama's actually came out to say something as potentially controversial as that. The benefits of last term presidency, right?
[QUOTE=valkery;43594766]Um, exactly that? Alcohol can make you physically dependent, can destroy the liver when taken in excess, is easy to over-consume before the effects are really felt, and is just terrible for you in general. Pot can make you pass out or throw up when taken in extreme excess, but it won't kill you if you overdose, and it forms nearly no physical dependence. Psychological dependence is possible, but unlikely, and even if you consume it day in day out for years, if you don't smoke it, the worst that will happen is needing a lot more to get equally stoned. Pot > all other forms of recreational drugs[/QUOTE] I disagree slightly. If you're smoking it EVERY DAY (like some people do) you probably DO have a psychological dependancy on it. I'd say LSD > all other forms of recreational drugs. In my experience, and in the experience of everyone I know who's tried it, LSD has a sort of self-regulating effect. It's so fucking intense (even when it's an entirely good experience) that you kind of need a cool down period after doing it and you find yourself not wanting to do it again for a few weeks. Pot you can easily 'abuse' though and do on a daily basis. Hell, I've had a week long binge of cannabis (at longest) and it was very easy to do. I can't imagine taking LSD on even TWO successive nights. I need a fucking day at MINIMUM to recover. Even then I can't imagine dropping acid, then doing it two days later, either.
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