Ubisoft: "DLC is Pretty Much Accepted Now" - Polidicks

I bought Payday 2 during the Steam sale and when I played, I was a little disappointed how many things were DLC. To use LMGs, you need to buy DLC. To use sniper rifles, you need to buy DLC. To use more than one shotgun, you need to buy DLC. To modify your gun in more and better ways, you need to buy DLC. I saw more DLC in the equipment screen than I saw stock guns/modifications. I ended up buying most of them since they were on sale for $5 combined, or the price of a single one when not on sale. And the worst part: the community buys it up. Ubisoft isn't wrong.

blizzard did it the best with starcraft, since sc1 broodwar was such a good expansion the base game was a joke. I cannot wait for legacy of the void I hope they conclude the story.

[QUOTE=bdd458;45320118]Assassin's Creed is my favorite AAA series, mainly because I love history and it's a nice change of pace from strategy games. And the amount of detail that actually goes into the[B] history parts is extraordinary[/B], even with the Assassin and Templar stuff thrown in. Take it IV how Edward gets the Jagdaw. It was when the Spanish Treasure Fleet sunk in 1715. There was one ship that purportedly sunk farther north than the rest of the fleet and hasn't even been accounted for, and was a small Frigate named the San Miguel. In Assassin's Creed IV that ship didn't sink, it was taken by Edward and Adewale. Details like that man. The entire fucking series is like that, and you want it to just [I]die[/I]? A lot of work goes into the Assassin's Creed games and keeps a lot of people bringing food home to their family.[/QUOTE] Like how pirates were all a bunch of Enlightenment idealists who cared about liberty and democracy, who never killed civilians. And sea shanties were sung in the 1710s. And the Edelweiss Pirates were a part of a fun ol' game of assassin vs. Templar, rather than a gang of brave teenagers who died for resisting the Nazi regime.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45321328]It leads to it. If games were personified, DLC would be a drug. At first you get a good high but then you OD and there goes your favorite series.[/QUOTE] uh okay i disagree. DLC is not by it's very nature a bad thing. DLC can be used shittily [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=lazyguy;45321332]Like how pirates were all a bunch of Enlightenment idealists who cared about liberty and democracy, who never killed civilians. And sea shanties were sung in the 1710s. And the Edelweiss Pirates were a part of a fun ol' game of assassin vs. Templar, rather than a gang of brave teenagers who died for resisting the Nazi regime.[/QUOTE] yeah it takes a great deal of liberty with histories personalities and people but it does a good job with integrating historical facts and elements all around it

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;45321277]I bought Payday 2 during the Steam sale and when I played, I was a little disappointed how many things were DLC. To use LMGs, you need to buy DLC. To use sniper rifles, you need to buy DLC. To use more than one shotgun, you need to buy DLC. To modify your gun in more and better ways, you need to buy DLC. I saw more DLC in the equipment screen than I saw stock guns/modifications. I ended up buying most of them since they were on sale for $5 combined, or the price of a single one when not on sale. And the worst part: the community buys it up. Ubisoft isn't wrong.[/QUOTE] Actually thinking about it, it's not entirely a bad thing. Payday 2 isn't a recent game, so the stockpile of weapons and mods are a result of just DLC being released gradually since its release. And while they're not necessary to the game, they do add more variety. The heists up until The Big Bank were all free, so that's fine. You could actually argue DLC is part of what is keeping the game and its community running. So DLC doesn't have to be a bad thing and does keep game alive post-release. Just look at TF2.

[quote]In the past, gamers would complain that such "shortcut" DLC packs used to be available as free cheat codes, but Early says that those days are over as gamers have come to embrace their nickle-and-dime overlords.[/quote] fuck you

DLC should be accepted because its a great thing because of the convince. The real problem is that the game company's abuse the system to get money for sub par content. The even bigger problem is the idiots who throw money at them just cause they have been trained to do it.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45321332]Like how pirates were all a bunch of Enlightenment idealists who cared about liberty and democracy, who never killed civilians. And sea shanties were sung in the 1710s. [/quote] It is a game, and you do have to give them some leeway, otherwise you wouldn't have much of a game. And even then, if you read the damn encyclopedia entries in ACIV, the 'Abstergo' devs were trying to make the Pirates out to be the heroes so they could sell a damn game. Like, it's brilliant how they did that (Oh, let's not show any of the bad things Edward did, so no Drinking or Gambling or anything like that!). And with the Sea-Shanties, it's much more preferable to the games normal sound track. AND TO TOP THAT OFF, according to Wikipedia [quote]Singing or chanting has been done to accompany labor on seagoing vessels among various cultural groups at various times and in various places. A reference to what seems to be a sailor's hauling chant in The Complaynt of Scotland (1549) is a popularly cited example. [/quote] Assassin's Creed IV is as much of a game about Pirates, as it is about a game studio making a game about Pirates, and the difficulties in making a game about criminals less about criminals. [QUOTE=lazyguy;45321332]And the Edelweiss Pirates were a part of a fun ol' game of assassin vs. Templar, rather than a gang of brave teenagers who died for resisting the Nazi regime.[/QUOTE] I found one mention of them in regards to Assassin's Creed, and that was here: [url]http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Miriam_Kurtz[/url] so I don't know what you are on about.

It's only 'accepted' because the relentless theater of financiers have pushed it for so long and so hard that we know it's not going to stop any time soon.

Just get rid of DLC that makes games look unfinished in the first place, end of story. I don't see why DLC has to be some sort of essential thing for games now, they should be optional and not pushed.

[QUOTE=bdd458;45321412]It is a game, and you do have to give them some leeway, otherwise you wouldn't have much of a game. And even then, if you read the damn encyclopedia entries in ACIV, the 'Abstergo' devs were trying to make the Pirates out to be the heroes so they could sell a damn game. Like, it's brilliant how they did that (Oh, let's not show any of the bad things Edward did, so no Drinking or Gambling or anything like that!).[/quote] But we're supposed to be the raw stuff, unaltered by Abstergo.[quote] And with the Sea-Shanties, it's much more preferable to the games normal sound track. AND TO TOP THAT OFF, according to Wikipedia[/quote][quote]However, the shanty genre is distinct among various global work song phenomena. Its formal characteristics, specific manner of use, and repertoire cohere to form a picture of a work song genre that emerged in the Atlantic merchant trade of the early 19th century[/quote] [quote] Assassin's Creed IV is as much of a game about Pirates, as it is about a game studio making a game about Pirates, and the difficulties in making a game about criminals less about criminals. [/quote] The Abstergo element is very easily a minority of the plot. All it really is is the backstory for the game. Far from an exploration of themes, it is an excuse to hand-wave and the source of a few gags. Ubisoft wanted to make a silly pirate game because the focus groups told them that the naval combat in AC3 was popular, and so is Pirates of the Caribbean. That they decided to have you play as a pirate stripped of piracy's dark reality is just as ugly as if they were white-washing the Great Leap Forward, or gang violence. [quote] I found one mention of them in regards to Assassin's Creed, and that was here: [url]http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Miriam_Kurtz[/url] so I don't know what you are on about.[/QUOTE] One of the hackable computers tells you [sp]the Navajos were in league with the Assassins, in the battle against the Nazi Templars[/sp]. Ubisoft co-opted children for their cash-cow game series, and that is absolutely deplorable.

Stating that DLC is accepted because there isn't a big upcry about Black Flag "time saver" packs may be a bit of shaky reasoning, when taking in a bigger picture. I mean I would have been against it, but this is the first time I've even heard that they existed. Because I didn't play or buy ACIV. Because I haven't been interested in the AC series since 2. Because the span between 2 and 3 was the point where I decided that playing an Assassin's Creed installment was no longer worth putting up with Ubisoft business practices. Of course you're going to get less and less opposition to something which you refuse to change as time goes on; but a lot of that can be attributed to the fact that - if a person is so strongly against something you're so strongly for keeping - they have to eventually realize that their only [i]real[/i] option is to jump ship and never look back. And you'll never hear angry customer feedback from them again, simply because they will no longer allow themselves to become your customer.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45319167]Payday 2 is probably a great example of awful DLC actually. The DLC heists are really cool, but all the Gage weapon packs do is limit your fun until you spend the ~£3.99 on a couple of weapons and mods for weapons. They really need to add some free weapons to the DLC only categories to let people play around with the weapon classes more before committing.[/QUOTE] It's also pretty funny how the "default" lua trainer for payday 2 (pirate perfection) lets you unlock absolutely everything. Gage weapon with every weapon mod? Tier five infamy? Every single perk at the same time? Sure, just buy it with your trillion zillion of ingame cash.

I hate season passes. They're overpriced promises on future additions that might end up blowing ass and aren't even worth the money. That is, if you even have interest in the game by the 'extra content' comes out.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;45321784]why not just wait for reviews or other solid indicators that totally dont include piracy to see what the gameplay is actually like, and if it is worth buying its not like they run out of digital copies, and preorder dlc is always just a thing that could be missed[/QUOTE] This will probably sound stupid, or naive, or foolish, or whatever, but it's what I believe. I believe it's down to personal choice, in how much trust you're willing to put into a particular set of developers, producers, and marketers. Most of the games in my steam list? Sales, bundles. A minority of them were bought on release, a minority of them were bought full price. Those few I have pre-ordered/bought on release/full prie? I've had a fucking blast with, and in some cases still do. Because I trust that those developers will make a game that suits my tastes or had enough confidence in what the final product is going to be (Valiant Hearts: The Great War and Sniper Elite III are the two most recent examples of that for me. I even did a review of Valiant Hearts in time for the 100th Anniversary of the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Which was actually my plan once I found out the release date for that). Since Assassin's Creed is the hot topic in this thread, I might as well address my purchasing pattern for those. Not a single one on release. All have been on sale. 1-Revelations were in this Assassin's Creed bundle before the release of 3. My friend at one point shared his Uplay account with me and I played through III through him. So this Sale I finally bought it, with the Tyranny of King Washington. Black Flag I didn't have any experience with, but for 50% off I couldn't say no. And I'm very happy with that decision. It's a great game. Though, I think the 'timesaver' packs are ridiculous, especially for a singleplayer game. I hate stuff like that in multiplayer, but why singleplayer??? Unity? Not going to preorder, since the only 'gameplay' we've seen has most likely been heaving scripted, and some of things said in the commentary probably lies (such as the crowd reacting in different ways). That soldier staring at that girls ass before getting his throat slit? Scripted if you ask me. Don't get me wrong it looks slick, but the salesman can be even slicker. The "40 extra minutes of gameplay" they're advertising as some sort of preorder 'bonus' doesn't seem much like a bonus to me, especially after I hear they tried a similar stunt with Watch_Dogs and it was only so long because you went from one end of the map to another. TL'DR Basically what I'm saying is be smart with your preorders, and if your gut is saying 'don't preorder', you should listen to it.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45320389]Saints Row 3 had a DLC you had to buy to enable cheat codes. It also had one so you could paint a (previously uncustomizable vehicle, which is uncustomizable for no reason whatsoever) purple. This money grabbing DLC is scummy and unacceptable. There really should be a new term for the scummy DLC to separate it from decent DLC.[/QUOTE] Two things; one, the DLC added a only a few cheats, there will still plenty of cheats you could access anyway. Second, not all games give you cheats to begin with. You act like game developers have an obligation to provide us with cheat codes, that we're entitled to cheat codes. Besides, in this case the devs allow and are (or at least were,) supporting development of mods, including a sandbox mod that gives in-depth control that allows for far more power than simple cheats ever have.

[QUOTE=artDecor;45319895]fuck dlc "Batman: Arkham Origins Complete Edition" because the 60 dollars you paid upfront didn't mean shit[/QUOTE] Bullshit like this is why people torrent. "Complete edition." Fuck you. At least MMO's give me good things for a monthly fee, and even beyond that there's free MMO's that have loads of content.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45323579]What's really smart is waiting for the product to come out and [I]then[/I] make a decision instead of just jumping in the dark well and hoping there's water at the bottom. It probably took them 10 seconds to code cheat codes into the game (if they weren't there in the first place). If I didn't have the ps3 version, I probably could've just edited the files myself. It isn't that you're "entitled" it's that it's so fucking easy how is it not in there? Good god, soon I feel like there might be a "high graphics" microtransaction you have to buy to play the game on Ultra. And there was never a sandbox mod for SR3? Never will be ever. I wonder where your support went? Scam.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum/threads/sandbox-for-srtt.1076/[/url] Thread started June 26, 2012. There's been a sandbox mod for two years.

Yeah, and I'm sure people who bought Skyrim on the PS3 got fucked over when they couldn't install additional .esp files. What's your point now? Before it was that modding didn't happen for SRTT on the PC and I showed that it has, and now it's that the modding point is irrelevant because consoles can't use mods. What are you getting at here? If that's the case why did you fucking argue it in the first place?

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45321852]But we're supposed to be the raw stuff, unaltered by Abstergo.[/quote] The stairs in Nassau are a dead giveaway that it's not though. Do you actually think Abstergo would give unbridled access to stuff like that to a low level employee, especially after the stuff with [sp]Lucy[/sp]?

the saints row 3 dlc is literally cosmetic or useless guns though?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;45321357]Actually thinking about it, it's not entirely a bad thing. Payday 2 isn't a recent game, so the stockpile of weapons and mods are a result of just DLC being released gradually since its release. And while they're not necessary to the game, they do add more variety. The heists up until The Big Bank were all free, so that's fine. You could actually argue DLC is part of what is keeping the game and its community running. So DLC doesn't have to be a bad thing and does keep game alive post-release. [B]Just look at TF2.[/B][/QUOTE] Where most of the content added to the game is free.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;45324749]and the game is funded by the unethical lockbox bullshit seen in amazing korean mmos theres a downside to everything[/QUOTE] That's great and all, but the major content is still accessible without paying a dime. If it changes gameplay, it shouldn't cost money, IMO.

Left 4 Dead 2 was the best DLC I've played.

[QUOTE=Fuzzwaddle;45318948]Last expansion pack that I've seen was Dark Arisen for Dragon's Dogma which added loads of new content to the game.[/QUOTE] Except it's a Capcom title, so you should always wait until they release the super hyper ultra edition alpha that's the original title + all the DLC. Honestly I bought Dragon's Dogma because it honestly looked completed and had no day 1 DLC. When Dark Arisen came out, I knew I fucked myself over because I overlooked it being a Capcom title. Moral of the story: Always wait on Capcom games you want because they will ALWAYS do rerelease editions.

I've always said that if people were actually intent on changing the gaming industry for the better, they need to change their spending habits. Companies like ubisoft dont "listen" to customers, they can't, they are too big. They "listen" to profits. As long as you keep funding shitty decisions, guess what the incentive is? More shitty decisions. They never have to do an internal review, because why would they? They never have to try to be innovative or original, or stop making cookie cutters because why would they? Seriously, if you complain about DLC, DRM and shit quality, hype machine games running off the business model of "1st week profits", but continue to buy them, you might not realize it but you're a hypocrite. You're funding these behaviors.

The problem with DLC is that it's being abused so easily by the developers and/or publishers.

[QUOTE=bdd458;45324012]The stairs in Nassau are a dead giveaway that it's not though. Do you actually think Abstergo would give unbridled access to stuff like that to a low level employee, especially after the stuff with [sp]Lucy[/sp]?[/QUOTE] They clearly do, considering you [sp]actually go into the Observatory and a load of stuff about the precursors[/sp]. The fact is, the logic of the present-day stuff is inconsistent - at best. It's not even an excuse, just a confused mess.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;45321784]why not just wait for reviews or other solid indicators that totally dont include piracy to see what the gameplay is actually like, and if it is worth buying its not like they run out of digital copies, and preorder dlc is always just a thing that could be missed[/QUOTE] preorder DLC is always complete bullshit and people who try to justify preordering shitty games because they wanted the DLC are just trying to fake their way out of regret

I'm perfectly fine with people who do DLC RIGHT! By that, I mean the DLC doesn't just change some skin. I want there to be gameplay changes, or in the cases of the best DLCs, gameplay ADDED. Infamous 2: Festival of Blood was a DAMN good example of this. It was a standalone DLC that not only gave you more gameplay from infamous 2, but also gave you new gameplay mechanics (such as flying.) Or Blood Dragon for Far Cry 3. It took the serious nature of far cry 3 and put it in a much more ludicrous setting. THESE are good examples of DLC as they actively extend the longevity of your games. Its shit like bethesda's horse armor and practices like cutting features from the final version of the game to hawk them off as DLC later that get my blood boiling.