[QUOTE=allon;45325549]The problem with DLC is that it's being abused so easily by the developers and/or publishers.[/QUOTE]
Listen, its not the publishers or the developers. They are doing exactly what their job entails: making money.
Its people. People keep buying this shit, so what reason do they have to change what they are doing? Criticism of a company means nothing if they keep making so much money they don't have to listen.
Gaming is a free market. People want to change something, they need to stop funding that something.
Ubisoft doing another hyped 1st week drop and run? DONT BUY IT.
Popular game series pushing out unfinished products with pre-planned DLC to "complete" the game? DONT BUY IT.
While I'm at it, early-access is a shit model so prone to abuse for everything except indie developers. It's funding developers pushing out unfinished games. The incentive of making a good product should be that you will make a lot of money IF its good. Instead the gaming community is funding either under-developed games that never get completed (because why bother, fuck u got mine!!!) or games from companies that spend all their money on advertising because shit, they know it works and works well.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;45326304]They clearly do, considering you [sp]actually go into the Observatory and a load of stuff about the precursors[/sp]. The fact is, the logic of the present-day stuff is inconsistent - at best. It's not even an excuse, just a confused mess.[/QUOTE]
Abstergo obviously had a hand in changing at least the world before hand, they just needed someone [I]disposable[/I] to do the footage capturing. The funny thing is, your modern day dude, is said to have worked on genetic memory stuff before. So Abstergo would be eliminating a potential threat and competitor who could possibly undermine all their work in concealing the real truth. Melanie, the CCO, you. Three disposable non-Templars to do the dirty work.
Oh and trust me, I think the modern day aspects are a bunch of shit and they should just drop it entirely and just do the who series focused entirely on history. But that's just me.
If you pre-order games, you are objectively a fucking retard.
DLC should be expansions to the actual game. It shouldn't be a missing puzzle piece. I want someyhing that gives me reason to revisit what i finished and enjoy it again, i don't want to pay for what i should already have
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45324241]No, the gameplay "DLC."
It was really lacklucker. The cosmetic one where you can get purple versions of certain vehicles was pretty bad, too. Since almost every vehicle in the game was customizable except those.
And I'm not talking about just SR3, this microtransaction shit is only getting worse industry-wide.[/QUOTE]
Do microtransactions deserve to be in this discussion? We're talking about DLC for standalone games, like Skyrim or Saints Row 3. Not the payment systems of online games like Team Fortress 2 or World of Warcraft. DLC refers to content that is downloaded onto your system to add value to a gaming experience, and microtransactions in gaming refers to the payment systems of online multiplayer experiences. (Or, if we're going by its more rigid definition as defined by Paypal, which is a transaction online that costs less than $12 USD, then practically every DLC is now a microtransaction so the term is essentially meaningless so it makes more sense to use the term DLC anyway.)
And again, you're acting as if this DLC [I]takes away value[/I] from the core experience which it absolutely does not. Let's say you didn't pre-order Deus Ex Human Revolution. You don't get a gun that you're probably never going to use, so what? Oh no, you don't get a purple VTOL, you can't customize aircraft anyway in that game, it wasn't intended in the first place. You don't buy the DLC in Skyrim and you don't get to play for or against the Dawnguard. You still have hundreds of hours of replay value out of that base game alone.
Microtransactions did not ruin SR3 because it was still a fun fucking game besides that. Easily in the top five best games of 2011 for me, along with Skyrim, Human Revolution, Portal 2, and Arkham City. Hell, Portal 2 had microtransactions and nobody bitched about that. I think that SR3 is a poor example of "microtransactions ruining the industry," because it showcased an example of a tremendously fun and well-made game that was amazing when played without any DLC, with a bit of added fun if you want to pay them a bit of pocket change. If anything, it's a case study for DLC done right. At no point did they compromise core features or story by introducing paid DLC.
[QUOTE=Stopper;45329484]If you pre-order games, you are objectively a fucking retard.[/QUOTE]
If you preorder, then bitch and moan about the game being crap, you might have an intelligence problem
[QUOTE=Stopper;45329484]If you pre-order games, you are objectively a fucking retard.[/QUOTE]
Actually the last few instances of me preordering a game I did not regret one bit. Though those instances were all unusual cases because in one way or another I had knowledge I normally wouldn't have had. I preordered Human Revolution because when the leak happened before release everyone was gushing over how fun it was, so I picked it up. I preordered Saints Row 4 because a few fans in the community were let in on early access and while they were super critical of the third game they really enjoyed the fourth.
I only ever really preorder games when I have knowledge before it's released that the game is going to be good, which rarely ever happens.
I just thought of something.. What if: Game developers release their base game for $60 and any add ons are 'pay what you want' and allow us to get it for free. If consumers feel the need to donate, they can pay $500 if they so choose.
Bad idea?
For me, DLC is accepted as much as herpes is. Do we want it? No, but it isn't going away so we have to deal with it. No one "asks" for DLC, they get it when they let themselves get fucked. (I really liked this analogy okay guys)
Ubisoft is one of the worst offenders of bad dlc, but really until people actively stop buying it the money won't stop flowing into their pockets. I'm at least glad that I'm not one of the people who support it.
i wonder what their pr meetings are like at ubisoft
must be better then stand up comedy
[QUOTE=killa101;45330637]I just thought of something.. What if: Game developers release their base game for $60 and any add ons are 'pay what you want' and allow us to get it for free. If consumers feel the need to donate, they can pay $500 if they so choose.
Bad idea?[/QUOTE]
Horrible idea, it's why Humble Bundle set a minimum price of 1 dollar for steam keys.
So basically your point is that everyone who has ever pre-ordered a game who enjoyed it is lying to themselves?
Get over yourself, lmfao.
you know what they used to call the sort of DLC that Fallout 3/New Vegas and Skyrim get?
expansion packs.
they are still the best way of giving new content to a game. no-one in their right mind hates expansion packs. i really think we gotta differentiate between dlc and expansionpacks the same way we differentiate microtransactions/cash shops and dlc.
[QUOTE=PSI Guy;45331146]you know what they used to call the sort of DLC that Fallout 3/New Vegas and Skyrim get?
expansion packs.
they are still the best way of giving new content to a game. no-one in their right mind hates expansion packs. i really think we gotta differentiate between dlc and expansionpacks the same way we differentiate microtransactions/cash shops and dlc.[/QUOTE]
What about the Gun Runner's Arsenal and the Courier's Stash expansions packs? Those added extra guns and pre-order bonuses, respectively. Nobody complained about those. What about Hearthfire, which only adds a couple of houses and adoptable children? Are those expansion packs or DLC? The line gets really blurry really quickly between expansion pack and DLC.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45331275]What about the Gun Runner's Arsenal and the Courier's Stash expansions packs? [B]Those added extra guns and pre-order bonuses, respectively. Nobody complained about those[/B].[/QUOTE]
Pre-order bonus DLC are terrible in general, probably just as bad as day one DLC.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45330805]quote[/QUOTE]
Sniper Elite III - Quite a step up from V2, a very fun game.
Valiant Hearts - The Great War: Bring your tear buckets for an enjoyable, and touching comic book adventure/puzzle game that's reasonably priced.
Europa Universalis IV - Great grand strategy, got it preorder because it was discounted, and discounted even further due to me owning Europa Universalis III.
Total War: Rome II - Despite its shortcomings, a game I've heavily enjoyed and even started to learn how to mod because of it.
So in 2 years I've preordered 4 games. EUIV, Sniper Elite, and Valiant Hearts were not long term preorders either. Like, EUIV I preorded like a day before it came out lmao. I've enjoyed those games far more in some cases then games I've bought after their release date. So please shut the fuck up with your bullshit rhetoric and reasoning.
Like I said, preorder smart. If your gut says no, don't preorder it. It's as simple as that.
[QUOTE=Fangz;45331301]Pre-order bonus DLC are terrible in general, probably just as bad as day one DLC.[/QUOTE]
But why? You aren't required to have them to enjoy the game. In New Vegas it's like, what, a few guns that will be rendered useless in the first thirty minutes and that stupid canteen? The strongest argument I've seen against preorder DLC is "Because I want it and I shouldn't have to pay extra for it." I just don't understand how it's ruining anything.
Besides, pre-order bonuses never stay that way for long. They invariably release it later as standard DLC. All preordering gets you is early access to an unbelievably tiny percentage of content. If you don't like preordering you can still get the same exact experience, you just need to wait a bit longer. And I think that's fair.
[editline]8th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=bdd458;45331307]Sniper Elite III - Quite a step up from V2, a very fun game.
Valiant Hearts - The Great War: Bring your tear buckets for an enjoyable, and touching comic book adventure/puzzle game that's reasonably priced.
Europa Universalis IV - Great grand strategy, got it preorder because it was discounted, and discounted even further due to me owning Europa Universalis III.
Total War: Rome II - Despite its shortcomings, a game I've heavily enjoyed and even started to learn how to mod because of it.
So in 2 years I've preordered 4 games. EUIV, Sniper Elite, and Valiant Hearts were not long term preorders either. Like, EUIV I preorded like a day before it came out lmao. I've enjoyed those games far more in some cases then games I've bought after their release date. So please shut the fuck up with your bullshit rhetoric and reasoning.
Like I said, preorder smart. If your gut says no, don't preorder it. It's as simple as that.[/QUOTE]
You're obviously just kidding yourself. Stop being such a crusader about it, okay?
[editline]8th July 2014[/editline]
Also to be fair I did preorder Rise of the Triad and I didn't really enjoy that game. It was alright but I wouldn't play it more than once. It was only $15 but still, not the best investment I ever made.
I can kind of see where people are coming from with preorder DLC/Day one DLC.
But to me, it depends on the type of content, and if it's 'on disk' content. Developers have a right to continue working on a project, even as it enters bug testing phases and the 'gold phase'. so if they churn out a DLC such as those fallout guns, why bother complaining? It gave people work to do.
But on the other hand you have shit like Mass Effect on Disk DLC which is a load of bullshit.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45331579]You're really defensive for no reason, it makes you look awful.
No, my point was that you're acting like a baby. (god I wish this was the sims thread so I could say toddler) You're one of the "warriors" I'm talking about.
Just you specifically, no one else in this thread. Like good lord just calm down and argue rationally without saying "lmfao!!"[/QUOTE]
But... I am. The discussion was preordering and I gave my thoughts about preordering. Then you came in and accused me of having cognitive dissonance towards my purchasing decisions. That's a pretty arrogant thing to assume my man!
Also, before about Saints Row 3 dlc you moved the goalposts like three times and the moment I called you out on it you immediately switched gears onto "hey man calm down." Everyone here is perfectly calm, so I'm gonna respectfully ask that you stop making up bullshit about me and my mental state because it's very unbecoming.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45331579]You're really defensive for no reason, it makes you look awful.
No, my point was that you're acting like a baby. (god I wish this was the sims thread so I could say toddler) You're one of the "warriors" I'm talking about.
Just you specifically, no one else in this thread. Like good lord just calm down and argue rationally without saying "lmfao!!"[/QUOTE]
It's not that he's being defensive, but that you're being exceptionally aggressive for no fucking reason at all. You're lumping all the people who pre-order games in the "fucking idiots" basket, with no real reason other than "well you don't know if it will suck!!!". Sure the game might suck, but not everybody pre-orders shit games, we can usually work out if something is a safe bet based on past works.
To claim that people who then defend their purchases are in denial is also fucking lunacy. Not everybody who is trying to explain why the game isn't turboshit is going through buyers remorse. Most of these people are genuinely enjoying their games.
I think that all DLCs are fine and dandy*, [I]as long as they are planned and created AFTER the game's release.[/I]
If you wanted to add something new to the game ok and need to cover the developing costs ok, but really, no one really gives a flying fuck about reskins, that-weapon-I'll-only-use-once-maybe-twice, etc etc.
* Even tho I hate saying "DLC". They are expansion packs. If not, they're things I don't care about, so I don't have a name for them.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45331826]Yes, let's not argue about arguing and argue about topic on hand!
I have Saints Row 3 and all the DLC, I have a lot of buyers remorse regarding that. I know first hand how mediocre it all is. That game had a lot of bad design choices regarding turning on/off features such as invincibility and the vampire attack.
It was a fun game though, I beat it about 4 times on co-op.
It's a good game, but the dlc leaves a really sour taste.
Saints Row 3 is not the worst offender though. There are a lot better examples of terrible DLC practices.[/QUOTE]
Okay, fair enough, I apologize for being a bit heated and derisive before, or if I came off that way.
I thought that the SR3 DLC wasn't that great but I bought it all anyway, but for different reasons. I don't necessarily think that the DLC added too much to the game and yeah, it totally had a lot of poor design decisions, especially regarding being unable to downgrade weapons and abilities. The Vampire pack sorta ruined the experience by sapping challenge from the game. Saints Row 4 was slightly better in that regard where you could still be killed even with all the upgrades unlocked, though I still wish you could downgrade.
The reason I bought all the DLC for Saints Row 3 was because I really liked that game, a lot (I have like 250 hours in that game between single player, coop, modding, and modding coop.) I also knew that at the time THQ was in dire financial straits and I would be sad to see them close down shop. I bought all the DLC (on sale, of course, I'm not that crazy,) to support the devs and the publisher because I got so much fun out of that game that I believed they deserved the purchase. "Voting with my money," if you will. Of course, such "altruistic" motives are not something the average consumer would worry about so I could see why someone would regret their purchases. Because I know that most of the DLC added nothing in terms of replayability, and most of the DLC is frankly just stupid. I mean, I don't think it's ruining the game but 3 dollars for two outfits? Give me a break.
I know for a fact that I'm not buying any DLC for SR4 past what I got in preorders and gifts, because none of it appeals to me at all. It all just looks like a waste of money to me.
Also, you mentioned the Sims earlier and I would think that what they're doing with that game is an example of a worse offender. It's kind of absurd what those expansion packs add for that price. Each pack is worth like $20, and it adds really stupid shit. Then again I never understood the appeal of the Sims to begin with so I'm probably not one to talk about it.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45331275]What about the Gun Runner's Arsenal and the Courier's Stash expansions packs? Those added extra guns and pre-order bonuses, respectively. Nobody complained about those. What about Hearthfire, which only adds a couple of houses and adoptable children? Are those expansion packs or DLC? The line gets really blurry really quickly between expansion pack and DLC.[/QUOTE]
pre-order DLC is abysmally retarded to be happy about for the very reasons you pointed out.
Some fucking guns? REALLY? You're paying extra for content that by all rights shouldve been in the game to begin with.
If you've got "Extras" complete before the game is complete, then you really have to ask yourself if you're actually providing a service and not just holding game content hostage. Expansion packs traditionally have come later, serving as a renewal of the game and have had a wealth of content as such. Pre-order dlcs is a fucking hack way of scamming a few more shekels out of people.
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