• FactCheck.org finds Democrats also guilty of bullshitting at convention
    57 replies, posted
[QUOTE=latin_geek;37552567]Well I don't see any democrats saying that your body detects and rejects rape automatically or how rape is just another way to get pregnant or how you're a person two weeks before you're concieved this is bullshit but when compared to the republican convention it can be considered nitpicking[/QUOTE] Hey, I think the Republicans are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the presidency, too. But we can't give every politician we like a free pass. All should be held to the same factual standard.
[quote]A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year.[/quote] That's quite impressive, I don't think I've heard Romney mentioning this either.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37552004]If only there was a third option.[/QUOTE] Let me answer this with a crappy analogy. You want to reach the top of a cliff. Option 1 is to wait in line to climb a ladder, Option 2 is to pay to use the stairs. Both suck, but you have to pick one or none. Technically you could take Option 3 and scale the rockface yourself, but it isn't viable and you'll likely just be left behind.
[QUOTE=Juice_Layer;37552689]That was the opinion of a stupid congressman, that's not the views of the entire party. There's plenty of slander and manipulation on both sides, it's politics. Just because one person says it doesn't mean their entire party supports or backs it up. That can be applied to essentially anything, especially religion, politics, and the like.[/QUOTE] This would be a valid argument if the Republicans had a valid argument about anything. Ever. Even gun control has stopped being an issue because Democrats figured out the numbers don't back it. That literally leaves the Republican party with nothing. EDIT: This was unnecessarily aggressive sounding. Let me say it this way: I have yet to encounter a valid point from the Republican party that isn't also held by the Democrats. If anyone can produce one, I would be happy to hear it. I will likely shoot it down, however.
[QUOTE=GunFox;37553328]This would be a valid argument if the Republicans had a valid argument about anything. Ever. Even gun control has stopped being an issue because Democrats figured out the numbers don't back it. That literally leaves the Republican party with nothing. EDIT: This was unnecessarily aggressive sounding. Let me say it this way: I have yet to encounter a valid point from the Republican party that isn't also held by the Democrats. If anyone can produce one, I would be happy to hear it. I will likely shoot it down, however.[/QUOTE] Are there any democrats that agree with Ron Paul's saner ideas about drug reform and military reduction? [editline]5th September 2012[/editline] Or is this strictly on a party basis rather than individual members
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37553755]Are there any democrats that agree with Ron Paul's saner ideas about drug reform and military reduction? [editline]5th September 2012[/editline] Or is this strictly on a party basis rather than individual members[/QUOTE] I'd say on a party basis. Especially given that Ron Paul is very much not representative of the rest of the Republican party.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37553755]Are there any democrats that agree with Ron Paul's saner ideas about drug reform and military reduction? [editline]5th September 2012[/editline] Or is this strictly on a party basis rather than individual members[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus[/url] As part of the bills or measures they do or would support: [quote]The National Economic Security Act -- to substanstantially cut the Pentagon and CIA budgets and Star Wars funding to shift resources to meet domestic social needs and long-term investments to strengthen the U.S. national economy and competitiveness[/quote] It is worth noting that this is the largest single Democratic congressional caucus. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Freedom_Caucus[/url] While not as organized a caucus as most, Libertarian Democrats do exist, and support decriminalization of marijuana: [quote]In general they support tax cuts, Second Amendment rights, same-sex marriage, the decriminalization of marijuana and a non-interventionist foreign policy. They are more likely to oppose deficit spending, protectionism, subsidies (especially to corporations) race-based affirmative action and many regulations on small businesses.[/quote]
I stand corrected
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37554064]I stand corrected[/QUOTE] Really, if you took every caucus of the Democrats and made it its own party, you'd have the full moderate range basically: Conservatives, Progressives, Centrists, and Libertarians. And yet each one on their own would still be more reasonable than the Republicans.
This is what happens every fucking time: - Republicans tell bullshit facts at convention. - Democrats attack them for doing so. - Democrats hypocritically tell bullshit facts at convention. - Republicans also hypocritically attack them for doing so. That doesn't even apply to just conventions, just politics in general. You can't trust anyone anymore.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;37554086]Bipartisan support was there, but the US's social security programs were began under the FDR administration.[/QUOTE] Most certainly this, considering that the Democrats had a super-majority in both the House and Senate at the time. Saying there was bipartisan support is like saying one-party states have bipartisan support for their policies. Yeah, there may be votes from other parties, but even if there weren't it would still have passed entirely on the larger (in this case an actually elected) party's shoulders. [editline]5th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=The Pretender;37554119]This is what happens every fucking time: - Republicans tell bullshit facts at convention. - Democrats attack them for doing so. - Democrats hypocritically tell bullshit facts at convention. - Republicans also hypocritically attack them for doing so. That doesn't even apply to just conventions, just politics in general. You can't trust anyone anymore.[/QUOTE] Are you incapable of value judgments? Is the rule just, if anything, no matter to what degree it is accurate or inaccurate, is even slightly off, it means that all politicians lie about everything all the time? As if somehow the very act of being elected into any office turns you into a compulsive liar?
Just silliness as usual. I enjoyed most of the speakers though, the whole thing was pretty liberal. The democrats' views are still in line with my own on most things so I will still be going for Obama for my first time ever voting, huzzah.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37554155]Are you incapable of value judgments? Is the rule just, if anything, no matter to what degree it is accurate or inaccurate, is even slightly off, it means that all politicians lie about everything all the time? As if somehow the very act of being elected into any office turns you into a compulsive liar?[/QUOTE]It shouldn't happen at all. If you go to the DMV and the person behind the counter informs you that, no, you don't need to have tabs because they don't think it's appropriate, or it goes against their moral beliefs or they "have other things on their agenda," shit is going to happen. For one, you do need tabs on your car and you're going to get when you get pulled over for it and for two, that person is going to get fired. Why is this okay for "lesser" government employees but not the ones who, you know, make our goddamn laws and decide where this country is going? Politics is shit, and the general rule of thumb is you can't trust politicians. This sentiment is nothing new, it's an old and well-established idea that probably has been uttered as far back as the Mesopotamian city-states. We [i]should[/i] be advanced enough to put that behind us.
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;37552103]Ron Pau- oh wait... Well, we Got Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, plus [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_and_independent_presidential_candidates,_2012"]a bunch of other low names.[/URL][/QUOTE] In my state you have to vote Obama or Romney.
[quote]A Democratic governor said Romney “left his state 47th out of 50 in job growth.” Actually, Massachusetts went from 50th in job creation during Romney’s first year to 28th in his final year. [/quote] That's actually a pretty impressive figure
[QUOTE=Megafan;37554155] Is the rule just, if anything, no matter to what degree it is accurate or inaccurate, is even slightly off, it means that all politicians lie about everything all the time? As if somehow the very act of being elected into any office turns you into a compulsive liar?[/QUOTE] Pretty much. I have yet to see a single politician that doesn't lie their ass off. You can't trust a word any of them say without going nine thousand pages deep in various factcheckers. That's why I don't pay much attention to politicians in the first place. I can't believe a word they say and I can't be assed to spend hours upon hours factchecking it. So I just don't pay them attention at all.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;37554377]It shouldn't happen at all. If you go to the DMV and the person behind the counter informs you that, no, you don't need to have tabs because they don't think it's appropriate, or it goes against their moral beliefs or they "have other things on their agenda," shit is going to happen. For one, you do need tabs on your car and you're going to get when you get pulled over for it and for two, that person is going to get fired. Why is this okay for "lesser" government employees but not the ones who, you know, make our goddamn laws and decide where this country is going? Politics is shit, and the general rule of thumb is you can't trust politicians. This sentiment is nothing new, it's an old and well-established idea that probably has been uttered as far back as the Mesopotamian city-states. We [i]should[/i] be advanced enough to put that behind us.[/QUOTE] you have to judge the better of two evils
Allow me to compile a list of major political groups that are not stacked sky high with bullshit List:
Most third parties are extremely naive due to lack of any political power. Also, 99% of experienced politicians go to the Red or Blue parties, so many third party candidates that are fielded have very little experience.
I find it pretty disgusting that people in the thread are cool with lies as long as it isn't Republicans
The conventions are just big propaganda events. Of course they're going to be lying. Talking about how they are the beholden children of the Earth and are the only ones fit to rule.
[video=youtube;uzDhk3BHi6Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDhk3BHi6Q[/video] If you didn't see Clinton's speech, you should watch this.
He listed every fact the other side claimed and destroyed them other other facts. As far as I can tell, he sacrificed speed and rhetoric/style in order to inspire people with not exagerated facts. It was the perfect speech.
[QUOTE=Carnage2323;37559478]I find it pretty disgusting that people in the thread are cool with lies as long as it isn't Republicans[/QUOTE] It's more about who lies [B]THE LEAST[/B] and where the lies aren't as over-exaggerated. But as mentioned many times, Politics is about choosing the lesser evil, since the political systems worldwide is just a huge & shitty mess. It [B]SHOULD'VE[/B] been better than that, but it isn't, partially due to human nature.
Better the devil you know.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.