[QUOTE=Moby-;38601897]Once again some ridiculous and barbaric religious tradition takes another life.[/QUOTE]
No, shitty medical practice did. Circumcision is a very popular and safe operation and this death, while tragic, means nothing.
I'm sorry but you guys saying that circumcision is cruel are irrational. A baby at 4 months old or whenever most parents have their kids circumcised wont even be able to remember it, and will still love their parents when they are older just as much as an uncircumcised person. I'm cut and my parents aren't religious at all, they just did it because they wanted to, and I still love them, hell, my dad is my fucking idol.
What I'm saying is you guys shouldn't mind either way, since, when performed correctly, circumcision is humane. The skin isn't needed and I know a lot of people dont like it.
[QUOTE=Moby-;38601897]Once again some ridiculous and barbaric religious tradition takes another life.[/QUOTE]
circumcision is perfectly safe if done properly. you wouldn't have some stranger off the street do an appendectomy or a colostomy, why would you do it with circumcision?
[QUOTE=Deadman123;38606991]I'm sorry but you guys saying that circumcision is cruel are irrational. A baby at 4 months old or whenever most parents have their kids circumcised wont even be able to remember it, and will still love their parents when they are older just as much as an uncircumcised person. I'm cut and my parents aren't religious at all, they just did it because they wanted to, and I still love them, hell, my dad is my fucking idol.
What I'm saying is you guys shouldn't mind either way, since, when performed correctly, circumcision is humane. The skin isn't needed and I know a lot of people dont like it.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's cruel, I'm not saying it's going to be regretted by the kid later, I'm saying it is a breach of consent for something that has no real medical necessity (in most cases)
[QUOTE=zakedodead;38606010]Baby dies due to non professional home surgery, pretend it's okay because you think it looks better.[/QUOTE]
Not once has anyone said that. We've only replied saying there's nothing wrong with circumcision to people saying circumcision isn't needed. I agree that this is a tragedy and circumcision should only be done by a professional at a hospital.
[QUOTE=Deadman123;38606991]I'm sorry but you guys saying that circumcision is cruel are irrational. A baby at 4 months old or whenever most parents have their kids circumcised [B]wont even be able to remember it[/B].[/QUOTE]
This makes me think of a curious question.
At what point does this make inflicting needless suffering on someone ok?
Hey a circumcision debate
My opinion is as follows
I was circumcised as a wee baby. I don't really mind. It's your penis though, and I don't care how old you are, it should be your choice.
Jesus Fuck, poor kid. Can we stop cutting each other's dicks now? It's fucking disgusting that people force such in inane act on children who have no way of expressing an opinion on the subject.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=sixtyten;38607501]Suffering requires sentience, something babies don't have.[/QUOTE]
All the justification you need to start hacking away at non-sentient baby dicks.
Also, at what point, exactly, does sentience begin? I have a faint memory of reading somewhere that it began at eight months in the womb, but I may be confusing articles.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38606428]That this is a stupid argument fueled by assholes on both sides.
No we don't need to do it to most kids.
No we don't need to act like having a circumcised dick is mutilation or bad.
every time a circumcision thread shows up it's just a dick showing competition.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
Point out to me WHERE I said birth.
There are reasons for it to happen you rube. There ARE medical reasons for it. Not always, or even generally at birth, but THEY EXIST.[/QUOTE]
No one's disputing that there are medical reasons, the point is it shouldn't be done [I]unless[/I] there's a medical reason.
[editline]26th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Deadman123;38606991]I'm sorry but you guys saying that circumcision is cruel are irrational. A baby at 4 months old or whenever most parents have their kids circumcised wont even be able to remember it, and will still love their parents when they are older just as much as an uncircumcised person. I'm cut and my parents aren't religious at all, they just did it because they wanted to, and I still love them, hell, my dad is my fucking idol.
What I'm saying is you guys shouldn't mind either way, since, when performed correctly, circumcision is humane. The skin isn't needed and I know a lot of people dont like it.[/QUOTE]
"He won't remember" isn't justification to do something cruel. You can do literally anything you like and then follow it up with that. Might as well start chopping off pinky toes and earlobes, those aren't needed either, and the baby won't remember, so why not?
[QUOTE=sixtyten;38607501]Suffering requires sentience, something babies don't have.[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty bold statement to make considering the amount of contention on the subject of at what point humans become conscious.
Look, this has nothing to do with whether any of you personally don't mind being circumcised. No matter how you feel about it now, even if literally [I]every person ever circumcised[/I] said "I don't mind having it now", that would not make it okay. There are no tangible medical benefits [B](sans dealing with medical issues such as phimosis)[/B] to it if you actually wash regularly and the pain an infant goes through, regardless of whether you can remember it or not, is not worth *the legal ability* to force it onto children. End of.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Megafan;38607831]Look, this has nothing to do with whether any of you personally don't mind being circumcised. No matter how you feel about it now, even if literally [I]every person ever circumcised[/I] said "I don't mind having it now", that would not make it okay. There are no tangible medical benefits [B](sans dealing with medical issues such as phimosis)[/B] to it if you actually wash regularly and the pain an infant goes through, regardless of whether you can remember it or not, is not worth *the legal ability* to force it onto children. End of.[/QUOTE]
The pain you speak of must have been nonexistent, seeing as I have no record of even having pain. It's neither good nor bad. Let people do what they want.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38606428]There are reasons for it to happen you rube. There ARE medical reasons for it. Not always, or even generally at birth, but THEY EXIST.[/QUOTE]
"But it might get dirty" is no reason to commit a mutilation to someone's genitals.
[quote]No we don't need to act like having a circumcised dick is mutilation or bad. [/quote]
Who let you decide what mutilation is described as?
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that [b]degrades the appearance or function[/b] of any living body, sometimes causing death.[/QUOTE]
Circumcision has been well-documented to reduce sensitivity and cause psychological trauma. Sounds like that matches the description to me.
I love how the lot of you would get buttmad if I compared it to female circumcision in Islam. When in actuality it is a religious-based procedure targetting a sex demographic in the name of backwards religious ideology. Either we must have both or we must have neither.
[QUOTE=sixtyten;38606464]But what about MUH PENIS?[/QUOTE]
U avin a giggle ther m8? ill bash ye fookin ead in i sware on me mum
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;38608007]The pain you speak of must have been nonexistent, seeing as I have no record of even having pain. It's neither good nor bad. Let people do what they want.[/QUOTE]
Again I must ask when does this justification stop being valid? What other kinds of suffering can be ok to inflict upon a baby using the justification of them not remembering it?
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;38608007]The pain you speak of must have been nonexistent, seeing as I have no record of even having pain. It's neither good nor bad. Let people do what they want.[/QUOTE]
If I told you, let's say, that when I have a kid I'll cut off the first segment of his or her little finger, but that they won't remember the pain of it later on, would that be okay? For the sake of it, let's say that the loss of this wouldn't hamper him or her in any significant way if at all. Is that okay? To cause a child undue pain simply because they won't remember it later, and I (or your parents) decided it was [I]something I wanted?[/I]
you can bitch and whine all you want about consent and what-not, but last time i checked, kids are practically property of parents. making circumcision individually decided will undermine the whole 'parents decide what's good for their kid' that's pretty instilled in america.
Found my favorite moderator.
^^i'm not saying i'm for total parental control in a kid's life, but it won't be something easily changable
[QUOTE=stupid10er;38608094]you can bitch and whine all you want about consent and what-not, but last time i checked, kids are practically property of parents.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware that's how it is. I'm telling you [I]that's not okay.[/I]
I would like to see someone who justifies infant circumcision with the fact that they won't remember the pain try to give me a reason why torturing a baby in a manner that won't cause permanent harm would be any less ok using that logic.
[QUOTE=Megafan;38608105]I'm aware that's how it is. I'm telling you [I]that's not okay.[/I][/QUOTE]
i agree but trying to change that will bring up a lot of ethical predicaments
[QUOTE=Yahnich;38607937]
just like when being fat was the attractive norm because of wealth; looks are and have always been subjective and prone to change~~[/QUOTE]
being fat was never considered sexually attractive. it was just a sign of wealth and power
[QUOTE=stupid10er;38608114]i agree but trying to change that will bring up a lot of ethical predicaments[/QUOTE]
Oh no!
[QUOTE=Yahnich;38608111]excuse me????[/QUOTE]
don't like being told the truth?
why am i not surprised by the reaction to this
[QUOTE=stupid10er;38608114]i agree but trying to change that will bring up a lot of ethical predicaments[/QUOTE]
When has anything having to do with principles or human rights not done this? If you shy away from a problem because it may start an argument, you have no business criticizing others who are willing to tackle it.
[QUOTE=Megafan;38608073]If I told you, let's say, that when I have a kid I'll cut off the first segment of his or her little finger, but that they won't remember the pain of it later on, would that be okay? For the sake of it, let's say that the loss of this wouldn't hamper him or her in any significant way if at all. Is that okay? To cause a child undue pain simply because they won't remember it later, and I (or your parents) decided it was [I]something I wanted?[/I][/QUOTE]
I'd say do it for all fingers, so they won't leave finger prints behind when they commit crimes.
[QUOTE=Zet;38608156]I'd say do it for all fingers, so they won't leave finger prints behind when they commit crimes.[/QUOTE]
[thumb]http://albums.eqal.com/5/10011/10011_alb_xlarge_600x407_73142_1282070632.jpg[/thumb]
just wear a forensics proof suit silly!
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