New Data Shows Just How Unequal Wealth Has Become in the U.S. Since the 80s - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;28285357]If we were truly capitalist, we'd rely on private security firms to provide law enforcement.[/QUOTE] No No No your wrong. Capitalism, and Anarcho-Capitalism(as silly a thing as it is) are not the same. In Pure laissez-faire Capitalism the government does not tax, redistribute wealth, regulate the economy, or provide social programs. The one thing it does do however is protect it's citizens from physical force at the hands of other human beings. This is done through the police, military, and courts. Private security firms for law enforcement have nothing to do with Capitalism, they have more to do with forms of Anarchy.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;28285357]If we were truly capitalist, we'd rely on private security firms to provide law enforcement.[/QUOTE] we used that money to fund bloodthirsty mercenaries in the middle-east instead, so lol but it doesnt fucking matter anyway because the people sitting on all those millions of dollars dont really give a fuck and will never know the hardships of working in fields and shoveling shit for a living, scrapping 9$ an hour to be depressed as fuck in some shitty apartment in downtown new york

[QUOTE=Kalibos;28285025][img_thumb]http://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_sun.jpg[/img_thumb] [editline]25th February 2011[/editline] thanks for nothing automerge you piece of fuck[/QUOTE] Okay, now turn that sun into a black hole, and you have the current economic situation in America.

Why are you all so clueless? Sure much of the money in the top 1-0.01 % came from the abuse of bureaucratic measures to manipulate capitalism but it is not the fault of capitalism. Why do you all assume that wealth must be equal? Do you think you are entitled to other peoples successes? The middle class is far more prosperous than it was in the 80's. We all have more food to consume, better standards of medicine, and entertainment. You all have clothes on your back, a roof over your head, and food in your stomach thanks to capitalism. Shut the fuck up.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;28284762]Everyone for the love of god, stop saying Communism is "t0ttaly tubular" and that this is the fault of capitalism.[/QUOTE] I'm for capitalism and this is certainly capitalism's fault. All systems have their problems, this is the problem of capitalism, socialism and communism have their own equally dire problems (Usually stemming from horrible misuse of the money the government gets) There is no perfect system unfortunately. And even in a perfect communistic society, all governments generally end up tossing benefits and money to the top political figures, and you have capitalism's problem all over again, except it's a government funded and supported problem and it's favored political figures in that top 1% instead of big business owners.

I don't even understand why you all think this is a dire problem. How do you think life was in the 80s compared today? OH wait we are much better off today. [editline]25th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=FlakAttack;28285434]Whoever started the whole Democrats vs. Republicans war was a fucking genious... he managed to distract a nation of millions from what was really going on and make them think their votes mattered when in reality, every single one of these men and women are corporate shills.[/QUOTE] Yeah whatever dude. Go listen to some more Alex Jones.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;28281493]No on average, your typical American will have more disposable income than someone from the UK, Australia, or any other developed country. It is getting worse though and it may not stay that way for long.[/QUOTE] The UK, Australia, and "any other developed country" generally has more social services. While you may have less disposable income, less of that disposable income will be spent on insurance or basic infrastructure services. That's probably why they have less disposable income, is because a higher percentage was spent on taxes to pay for those social services. [editline]25th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Strider*;28286228]I don't even understand why you all think this is a dire problem. How do you think life was in the 80s compared today? OH wait we are much better off today.[/QUOTE] "Oh we're doing OK, so we shouldn't strive to be doing better :downs:" As if there's people who actually need 27 million dollars a year to live comfortably. Economically, success is random and arbitrary, nobody is [I]entitled[/I] to anything beyond 300,000 a year.

Capitalism doing exactly what it was designed to do.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286286]The UK, Australia, and "any other developed country" generally has more social services. While you may have less disposable income, less of that disposable income will be spent on insurance or basic infrastructure services. That's probably why they have less disposable income, is because a higher percentage was spent on taxes to pay for those social services. [editline]25th February 2011[/editline] "Oh we're doing OK, so we shouldn't strive to be doing better :downs:" As if there's people who actually need 27 million dollars a year to live comfortably.[/QUOTE] Those people who make 27 million dollars a year are the ones that drive innovation and the changes that actually improve our world. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to be doing better, we should be. Don't be delusional, the world is driven on capitalism. Socialism and socialist countries cannot hold a candle to the production and innovation that takes place in the United States.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286410]Those people who make 27 million dollars a year are the ones that drive innovation and the changes that actually improve our world. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to be doing better, we should be. Don't be delusional, the world is driven on capitalism. [/QUOTE] Those people who make 27 million a year are the ones who [I]arbitrarily[/I] drive innovation in the world. If they didnt do it, somebody else would, they are by no means remarkable individuals, they just got the luck of the draw. Anybody could have taken their place had history gone differently. That's no reason to fork over 2/3 of the wealth in the world to them. I guess it's not fucking enough to [I]live extravagantly[/I], I guess you need to make 27 million a year, even though you couldn't possibly spend that much disposable income. This isn't even about "innovation," it is about standard of living. You do not need to make 27 million dollars, and you don't need to live in a fucking castle and own 3 Lambos to live a comfortable and healthy life.

[QUOTE=Billiam;28284778]This is the fault of capitalism. :colbert:[/QUOTE] 9 agrees shows just how much FP actually knows about Capitalism. Yeah the rich will definitely have the most to do with the economy, but how drastic it gets depends on the decisions of who's in charge and that goes for any type of government

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286491]Those people who make 27 million a year are the ones who [I]arbitrarily[/I] drive innovation in the world. If they didnt do it, somebody else would, they are by no means remarkable individuals, they just got the luck of the draw. Anybody could have taken their place had history gone differently. That's no reason to fork over 2/3 of the wealth in the world to them. I guess it's not fucking enough to [I]live extravagantly[/I], I guess you need to make 27 million a year, even though you couldn't possibly spend that much disposable income.[/QUOTE] Haha "fork" over 2/3 of the wealth in the world to them. They fucking produced it, you didn't god damn it. It isn't yours. They ARE remarkable individuals it's not all luck of the draw. It's that kind of mentality that hinders actual growth. Soviet Russia ran on an ideology similar, what improvements to the great masses of the people came from there?

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286544]Haha "fork" over 2/3 of the wealth in the world to them. They fucking produced it, you didn't god damn it. They ARE remarkable individuals it's not all luck of the draw. [/QUOTE] Show me one economic tycoon who is actually a remarkable individual. [quote]It's that kind of mentality that hinders actual growth. Soviet Russia ran on an ideology similar, what improvements to the great masses of the people came from there?[/quote]The same improvements that were made by the US during the cold war. The soviets did not copy US technology, they developed their own independently and much of it was the same as the US. Do you know why? It's because there are no remarkable individuals, there are no unique inventions or innovations. Everything that exists and will exist does so because it's already possible, all it takes is somebody to discover it, and there no shortage or remarkable individuals in the world; therefore there are really no remarkable individuals, ergo there's so reason why anybody needs to make such a disgusting amount of money. Unfortunately, the people who DO make the real discoveries are not the ones that are in the top echelons. The ones who ARE, are the ones who manage and exploit such inventions and innovations, and they contribute nothing; they could easily be replaced.

Someone always has to be on the top, at least in capitalism it will be business owners, business owners that worked hard to get there. In any other system, you have a centralized system usually controlled by a government, and that always has resulted in top government people getting the benefits. At least in this society, you can work your way to the top with some skill and a lot of luck. Any "Redistribution" of wealth would have to be controlled by a government, and we all know where that money would go to. The top 1% would just switch over to government figures instead of businesses.

[QUOTE=Billiam;28284778]This is the fault of capitalism. :colbert:[/QUOTE] It's actually the fault of the government. They cut taxes for the rich and now the rich have loads of money. [QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286560]Show me one economic tycoon who is actually a remarkable individual.[/QUOTE] Carnegie. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie[/url] An example of a good tycoon. He worked his way from the lowest bottom of society right up to become the second richest man in history. He then donated loads of his money to charities, pensions, schools etc.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;28286613] Carnegie. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie[/URL] An example of a good tycoon.[/QUOTE] Okay [quote]businessman, entrepreneur and a [U][B]major philanthropist[/B][/U][/quote]Unfortunately not every tycoon is benevolent. You can't summarize your logic and ideologies on the shoulders of one person.

[QUOTE=TH89;28284800]They don't have to, I'm just saying the idea that there'll be some economic crash that'll leave them penniless out on the street isn't very realistic. Poor people are hit far, far harder than economic crises than the rich[/QUOTE]I think he meant an apocalyptic scenario where civilization as it currently stands ceases to exist. Still a faulty postulation on his part; the richest would be more than adequately supplied to cope with such a scenario, or could equip themselves suitably on short notice.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286560]Show me one economic tycoon who is actually a remarkable individual. The same improvements that were made by the US during the cold war. The soviets did not copy US technology, they developed their own independently and much of it was the same as the US. Do you know why? It's because there are no remarkable individuals, there are no unique inventions or innovations. Everything that exists and will exist does so because it's already possible, all it takes is somebody to discover it, and there no shortage or remarkable individuals in the world; therefore there are really no remarkable individuals, ergo there's so reason why anybody needs to make such a disgusting amount of money. Unfortunately, the people who DO make the real discoveries are not the ones that are in the top echelons. The ones who ARE, are the ones who manage and exploit such inventions and innovations, and they contribute nothing; they could easily be replaced.[/QUOTE] You are fucking clueless. Name me one soviet invention that improved the well being of it's people, stop steering away from the subject. I didn't know the soviets independently developed the television and the computer. Are you shitting me? There ARE exceptional people. You are one of the most evil individuals I've ever met. Here are some examples of your remarkable economic tycoons you dolt: [media]http://schools-wikipedia.org/images/829/82904.jpg[/media] [media]http://www.entmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/donald-trump.jpg[/media] [media]http://www.entmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Bill-Gates1.jpg[/media] [media]http://community.telustalksbusiness.com/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/38-1076-1063/HenryFordPic.jpg[/media] These men accomplished things that would never be possible in a soviet society. Do you think we could even be communicating on this very forum if it weren't thanks to the greedy self interest of capitalism?

[QUOTE=Zambies!;28284762]Everyone for the love of god, stop saying Communism is "t0ttaly tubular" and that this is the fault of capitalism.[/QUOTE] why don't you actually adress the subject matter instead of reflexively backlashing against how "liberal" facepunch is for once in your dang posting career? How liberal everyone here is and how terrible it is that everyone here is liberal is all you ever post about. You never actually make any arguments or show that you have any understanding of whatever subject matter is at hand.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;28286613] Carnegie. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie[/url] An example of a good tycoon. He worked his way from the lowest bottom of society right up to become the second richest man in history. He then donated loads of his money to charities, pensions, schools etc.[/QUOTE] Wow beat to the punch.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286739]You are fucking clueless. Name me one soviet invention that improved the well being of it's people, stop steering away from the subject. I didn't know the soviets independently developed the television and the computer. Are you shitting me? There ARE exceptional people. You are one of the most evil individuals I've ever met. Here are some examples of your remarkable economic tycoons you dolt: These men accomplished things that would never be possible in a soviet society. Do you think we could even be communicating on this very forum if it weren't thanks to the greedy self interest of capitalism?[/QUOTE] These are not remarkable men. In the span of [I]7 billion[/I] people in the world, you could easily find a personality who has more potential than any of these men. They got the economic luck of the draw, they were born under the right circumstances and all the chances inevitably came out in favor of them.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286739] These men accomplished things that would never be possible in a soviet society. [/QUOTE] so it's either full on rock-hard capitalism or we turn into the soviet union. that's a false dichotomy and you know it

not everyone can be millionaires, it just doesn't work like that. there's nothing wrong with this.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286560] Unfortunately, the people who DO make the real discoveries are not the ones that are in the top echelons. The ones who ARE, are the ones who manage and exploit such inventions and innovations, and they contribute nothing; they could easily be replaced.[/QUOTE] You are right the scientists that actually do make the discoveries are the real innovators. I will give you that. But did you know that the steam engine was actually discovered in the dark ages by monk scientists? However the discovery was lost and could not spread because there was no means to CAPITALIZE on it.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286781]These are not remarkable men. In the span of [I]7 billion[/I] people in the world, you could easily find a personality who has more potential than any of these men.[/QUOTE] it doesn't even matter, he's arguing from the perspective that you either go free market either way or you instantly turn into a stalinist state.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286689]Okay Unfortunately not every tycoon is benevolent. You can't summarize your logic and ideologies on the shoulders of one person.[/QUOTE] You asked for one tycoon. I gave you one tycoon. More tycoons were given below.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286781]These are not remarkable men. In the span of [I]7 billion[/I] people in the world, you could easily find a personality who has more potential than any of these men. They got the economic luck of the draw.[/QUOTE] I think you are ashamed at the limit of what you and those you know have accomplished. These are remarkable men, why do you hate individuality. You reek of pungent evil.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286811]You are right the scientists that actually do make the discoveries are the real innovators. I will give you that. But did you know that the steam engine was actually discovered in the dark ages by monk scientists? However the discovery was lost and could not spread because there was no means to CAPITALIZE on it.[/QUOTE] hey you are still mising the point that capitalism exists is a spectrum, it's not free market or nothing. Countries like Sweden, Germany, and Denmark all allow free enterprise but, to some extent, prevent the wealthy from manipulating the democratic process while providing important public services to the people. They aren't 100 percent free market and they aren't NAZI COMMUNISTS either

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28286813]it doesn't even matter, he's arguing from the perspective that you either go free market either way or you instantly turn into a stalinist state.[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm arguing.. I'm using a stalinist state as an example because their leaders had the exact same mentality as him. That there are no true remarkable individual innovators and that every improvement to this world is a social not an individual effort. [editline]26th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28286860]hey you are still mising the point that capitalism exists is a spectrum, it's not free market or nothing. Countries like Sweden, Germany, and Denmark all allow free enterprise but, to some extent, prevent the wealthy from manipulating the democratic process while providing important public services to the people. They aren't 100 percent free market and they aren't NAZI COMMUNISTS either[/QUOTE] You're missing the fucking point.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286836]I think you are ashamed at the limit of what you and those you know have accomplished. These are remarkable men, why do you hate individuality. You reek of pungent evil.[/QUOTE] "You hate individuality" good lord stop being so overly-dramatic and start acting like a grown-ass man. Your hyperbolic theatrics won't get you anywhere