New Data Shows Just How Unequal Wealth Has Become in the U.S. Since the 80s - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286811]You are right the scientists that actually do make the discoveries are the real innovators. I will give you that. But did you know that the steam engine was actually discovered in the dark ages by monk scientists? However the discovery was lost and could not spread because there was no means to CAPITALIZE on it.[/QUOTE] There's no shortage of men who are capable of capitalizing on something. If Mr. _____ didn't do it then Mr. _____ would have done it. No reason to justify making 27 million dollars year when it's simply not needed by anybody. [quote]I think you are ashamed at the limit of what you and those you know have accomplished. These are remarkable men, why do you hate individuality. You reek of pungent evil.[/quote]They are certainly remarkable men. But there are a nearly infinite number of remarkable men in this world, and there are always, always people who are better at certain things then you. No reason for them to make 27 million dollars a year when there are people who barely make 30,000 a year.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28286880]"You hate individuality" good lord stop being so over-dramatic and start talking like a grown-ass man[/QUOTE] He does, it's obvious.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28286895]There's no shortage of men who are capable of capitalizing on something. If Mr. ____ didn't do it then Mr. _____ would have done it. No reason to justify making 27 million dollars year when it's simply not needed by anybody.[/QUOTE] So what do you suppose we should do about it? Should we take 26 million of the 27 he's earned and spread the wealth around including to you and your family? Why and by what right? Is it your money?

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286896]He does, it's obvious.[/QUOTE] only if you're looking at him through the window of the looney bin. It's not obvious to people who's opinions are grounded in reality and see the world as a little more complicated than "EVIL, FREEDOM-HATING COMMUNISTS VERSUS GLORIOUS CAPITALISTS" i'm not going to argue with you if you refuse to engage on reasonable terms, free of dumb rhetorical bullshit like "he hates individualism"

Shit I got trapped in the middle of a argument. I must make my escape.

Hey hypno because true individuality doesn't exist and anything that is invented can and will simply be invented by someone else in the event that the true innovator doesn't invent it, then do these rules apply to art? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk3mAX5xdxo[/media] If he hadn't wrote this song do you think someone else would have?

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286410]Those people who make 27 million dollars a year are the ones that drive innovation and the changes that actually improve our world.[/QUOTE] Like that asshole JP Morgan? If it hadn't been for his greed we would all have wireless electricity by now. You know what I'm talking about. [IMG]http://www.magneticgeneratorinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/wardenclyffe_tower.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286910]So what do you suppose we should do about it? Should we take 26 million of the 27 he's earned and spread the wealth around including to you and your family? Why and by what right? Is it your money?[/QUOTE] His empire is built on the shoulders of society.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;28286957]Yeah, like that asshole JP Morgan. If it hadn't been for his greed we would all have wireless electricity by now. You know what I'm talking about. [img_thumb]http://www.magneticgeneratorinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/wardenclyffe_tower.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Wasn't JP Morgan the only one that would fund Tesla? Aren't you proving my point here, or is this sarcastic?

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286941]Hey hypno because true individuality doesn't exist and anything that is invented can and will simply be invented by someone else in the event that the true innovator doesn't invent it, then do these rules apply to art? [/QUOTE] Hahaha Art is is irrelevant to the argument entirely, and is [I]expression[/I] not innovation. It has nothing to do with the standard of living, economic climate, or why someone would possibly need, or even [B]deserve[/B] 27 million dollars a year.

[QUOTE=TH89;28286990]His empire is built on the shoulders of society.[/QUOTE] His empire is built on his own productive effort that was fueled by his contractual relationships with those around him that served his interest. [editline]26th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287036]Hahaha Art is is irrelevant to the argument entirely, and is [I]expression[/I] not innovation. It has nothing to do with the standard of living, economic climate, or why someone would possibly need, or even [B]deserve[/B] 27 million dollars a year.[/QUOTE] Art is irrelevant? Art is production just the same, Bob Dylan has earned far more than 27 million dollars a year do you think he does not deserve it?

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287048]Art is irrelevant? Art is production just the same, Bob Dylan has earned far more than 27 million dollars a year do you think he does not deserve it?[/QUOTE] Just like everybody else, Bob Dylan does not need 27 million dolars a year, or any more than that. It's kind of ironic since he's a folk singer that used to sing about social and economic problems. Art is not innovation or production, [I]selling it is[/I]. Every song created is comprised of notes that already existed, notes that exploit a fundamental physics phenomenon. The words it is comprised of are merely the artist's expression, and that's all art is; expression. Did all the artists in the world only create their art because they knew they were going to make an absurd amount of money?

ITT: People don't know the difference between Capitalism and Corporatism

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287031]Wasn't JP Morgan the only one that would fund Tesla? Aren't you proving my point here, or is this sarcastic?[/QUOTE] JP Morgan only funded 50% of the project. And he stopped funding it when he realized that he wouldn't be able to bill people for wireless electricity. Morgan was already sitting on mountains of money, if he hadn't been such a selfish asshole and though of the needs of humanity as a whole, imagine what technologies we could posses today.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;28287139]JP Morgan only funded 50% of the project. And he stopped funding it when he realized that he wouldn't be able to bill people for wireless electricity. Morgan was already sitting on mountains of money, if he hadn't been such a selfish asshole and though of the needs of humanity as a whole, imagine what technologies we could posses today.[/QUOTE] You're preassuming that the device actually worked. [editline]26th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287093]Just like everybody else, Bob Dylan does not need 27 million dolars a year, or any more than that. It's kind of ironic since he's a folk singer that used to sing about social and economic problems. Art is not innovation or production, [I]selling it is[/I]. Every song created is comprised of notes that already existed, notes that exploit a fundamental physics phenomenon. The words it is comprised of are merely the artist's expression, and that's all art is; expression. Did all the artists in the world only create their art because they knew they were going to make an absurd amount of money?[/QUOTE] Do you think art like we know it today would exist if artists couldn't make an absurd amount of money? The only art that existed before the dawn of the American era was typically art that was supported by the bureaucracy and government funding. Capitalism is very important to art and professional intellectuals. You really should be thankful.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287173]Do you think art like we know it today would exist if artists couldn't make an absurd amount of money? The only art that existed before the dawn of the American era was typically art that was supported by the bureaucracy and government funding. Capitalism is very important to art and professional intellectuals. You really should be thankful.[/QUOTE] Many, many artists made shit all. Innovators and Artists are not the same as tycoons, and it's tycoons who hold the majority of the money in America, and the world and always have. Do you have any artist talents? I'm guessing you don't even know what you are talking about. I've got a number of artistic hobbies, and I make them for fun and a sense of satisfaction, not for money.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28286941]Hey hypno because true individuality doesn't exist and anything that is invented can and will simply be invented by someone else in the event that the true innovator doesn't invent it, then do these rules apply to art? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk3mAX5xdxo[/media] If he hadn't wrote this song do you think someone else would have?[/QUOTE] I think what he's trying to argue is that these past innovators, although having rightfully acquired their fortune as a result of their contributions, are in a situation where they have a lot of wealth to command, while many other people do not, and that they drive innovation simply because of that, they decide who gets the funding for their project, they get a share of the profits if it takes off, they just get richer despite no longer being innovative (not always the case though).

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287238]Many, many artists made shit all. Do you have any artist talents? I'm guessing you don't even know what you are talking about. I've got a number of artistic hobbies, and I make them for fun, not for money.[/QUOTE] All of art is not worth a fart. /argument.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287238]Many, many artists made shit all. Do you have any artist talents? I'm guessing you don't even know what you are talking about. I've got a number of artistic hobbies, and I make them for fun, not for money.[/QUOTE] You miss the fucking point. And yes I play multiple instruments, so there you go. The only way my music could be shared with the great masses of people is either through capitalism or if I was born hundreds of years ago in perhaps renaissance Italy and my uncle was the pope.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287282]The only way my music could be shared with the great masses of people is either through capitalism or if I was born hundreds of years ago in perhaps renaissance Italy and my uncle was the pope.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/7Ed7cs.png[/img]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287238]Do you have any artist talents? I'm guessing you don't even know what you are talking about. I've got a number of artistic hobbies, and I make them for fun and a sense of satisfaction, not for money.[/QUOTE] You are so ignorant it amazes me, honestly, i am taken back by that statement. People enjoy the fruits of their labor, i am a programmer and i sell programs. The owner of this forum did a little of the same and allows this argument to take place, it would be nice being a programmer with no actual obligation to pay the bills but this isn't fairy land and people actually need to contribute to society. Earning is a motivator.

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287282]You miss the fucking point. And yes I play multiple instruments, so there you go. The only way my music could be shared with the great masses of people is either through capitalism or if I was born hundreds of years ago in perhaps renaissance Italy and my uncle was the pope.[/QUOTE] So you play multiple instruments to make money? If money were not a factor, would you still play your instruments? Oh jeez, you gave me a box. I guess that means you are right and actually have confidence in your opinion :ohdear: Capitalism is just a economic system. it's not the grand hope for salvation, in every economic system theres always it's benefits and it's faults. Capitalism does not produce innovations, it's only objective is to produce something somebody will buy; if it's innvation that people will buy then it will produce innovation, but it's not always [B]beneficial[/B] innovation. People of benevolence and good will get crushed in our economic system by people who play for profit; truly amazing innovations that will benefit mankind are often elbowed out in favor of innovations or tangents that will produce more profit.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287392]So you play multiple instruments to make money? If money were not a factor, would you still play your instruments? Oh jeez, you gave me a box. I guess that means you a right and actually have confidence in your opinion :ohdear: Capitalism is just a economic system. it's not the grand hope for salvation, in every economic system theres always it's benefits and it's faults. Capitalism does not produce innovations, it's only objective is to produce something somebody will buy; if it's innvation that people will buy then it will produce innovation, but it's not always [B]beneficial[/B] innovation. People of benevolence and good will get crushed in our economic system by people who play for profit; truly amazing innovations that will benefit mankind are often elbowed out in favor of innovations or tangents that will produce more profit.[/QUOTE] That sounds like something Hitler would say.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;28287429]That sounds like something Hitler would say.[/QUOTE] :godwin: (assuming thats not a joke)

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287392]truly amazing innovations that will benefit mankind are often elbowed out in favor of innovations or tangents that will produce more profit.[/QUOTE] [media]http://i.cubeupload.com/QGXtsY.jpg[/media]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28287458]:godwin:[/QUOTE] You're begging the question. Per se.

-snip- bad automerge bad.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28287127]ITT: People don't know the difference between Capitalism and Corporatism[/QUOTE] I'm waiting for a response to this by the way, what makes America a pure bread Capitalist country? How is it capitalism's fault that 200 years after its utilization in America somebody changed the structure and laws radically and fucked everything up? [editline]e[/editline] Also for the record, intellectual property laws are pretty fucked up as well.

I think US CEOs should do what this guy does: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqFxK3GMEkA[/media]

[QUOTE=Strider*;28287173] Do you think art like we know it today would exist if artists couldn't make an absurd amount of money? [/QUOTE] Art nowadays is a fucking joke [IMG]http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/d49788/d4978867x.jpg[/IMG] This is a portrait that is priced at $4,000,000. Anyone could whip this up in MS paint in 1 minute and it wouldn't be worth shit. But because some famous guy drew it it's suddenly worth 4 million. Capitalism has turned art into hipster shit. My personal favorite artist is Norman Rockwell, here's an example of his work: [IMG]http://www.normanadams.org/assets/images/NR4Want.JPG[/IMG] He made great paintings, and he didn't have to be paid ridiculous sums of money to do it.