Zimbabwe demands the US extradite dentist that shot Cecil the Lion; man's whereabouts are unknown as
63 replies, posted
There is a big difference between subsistence hunting and trophy hunting, Cutthecrap.
Trophy hunting is just for pride saying, "I killed this lion." Then they leave a majority of the body to waste away.
Subsistence is obviously for eating, and survival. Just like what happens normally in the wild. Where people generally are expected to use as much of the animal as possible and not waste it.
I hate trophy hunting. And I wish it was flat out illegal everywhere.
Am I the only person who sees the excessiveness and irony in people demanding a Man who killed a Lion be extradited to a country ruled by a corrupt and violently repressive government which has had no problem with killing it's own civilians in the past?
[QUOTE=The mouse;48347243]Am I the only person who sees the excessiveness and irony in people demanding a Man who killed a Lion be extradited to a country ruled by a corrupt and violently repressive government which has had no problem with killing it's own civilians in the past?[/QUOTE]
Nope. I see it, which is why I'm a little worried about the extradition.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48346740]LOL do you seriously believe that a lion's existence is exactly equal to a chicken's? One is an apex predator born and raised in the wild, another is a domesticated animal bred over many generations to be eaten by humans.[/QUOTE]
How does that make its life any more valuable exactly? If a cast of humans were bred to be slaves would you consider them lesser beings?
[QUOTE=riki2cool;48346842]People who go "but its just a lion!111" fail to realise that what this man did is basically the same as breaking into someone's house, shooting their dog, skinning it and then putting it up as a prize on your wall. + paying 10k to some dude.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you're seeing my point. Where's the outrage over other animal deaths? Why is this lion so more important than others? The answer is, because it has a name and so people who don't even know where Zimbabwe is on the map are up in arms about the death of animal they didn't even knew existed a week ago.
They don't give a shit. They're just up in arms to protest for the simple sake of protesting.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;48347314]How does that make its life any more valuable exactly? If a cast of humans were bred to be slaves would you consider them lesser beings?[/QUOTE]
Personally, I consider everyone of my species more important and more valuable than any other animal on the planet.
I think animal rights is mostly a joke (mostly). While I'm not saying going out and torturing animals for the fun of it is ethically sound and okay, if a few million chickens have to suffer so mankind can be fed - then so be it.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48346167]Good luck explaining that to someone like her... chances are, all that tofu she eats ruined her cognitive skills down to those of a newborn puppy.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
Her "response" to her post
[hd]https://youtu.be/w9lgDUt1ewM[/hd]
"I... um, ahh..."
A newborn puppy.[/QUOTE]
Also she looks like a street corner hooker with all the tatoos.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48345634]
Lions get killed all the time.
Hell, rhinos have almost been hunted to extinction.
But this animal had a name. Therefore it is [I]definitely[/I] more important.[/QUOTE]
Actually yeah, this one has video and a name to put to it which means we, as humans can identify with it more easily, and we've been told for years now with the stories about animals being hunted to extinction.
How about you sit the fuck down and calm the fuck down.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;48347555]People think it's more important, but it really isn't. In the grand scheme of things, the death of 1 organism in this universe really doesn't fucking matter at all.[/QUOTE]
That's far too idealistic. In the grand scheme of things death of every living thing on Earth does not matter. Hell, if our entire solar system exploded it would mean fuck all really.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48347515]Actually yeah, this one has video and a name to put to it which means we, as humans can identify with it more easily, and we've been told for years now with the stories about animals being hunted to extinction.
How about you sit the fuck down and calm the fuck down.[/QUOTE]
Great, now only if we could get thousands of people to care about the dozens of nameless lions that die much worse deaths from starvation, disease, and human interference each year, then maybe we could get something done.
Every armchair convservationist is up in arms about whats trending, and its going to mean jack shit to the status of the lion, as all this attention and e-activism is about cecil, not the species.
Don't extradite him to fucking Zimbabwe because of an overrated lion.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;48347555]People think it's more important, but it really isn't. In the grand scheme of things, the death of 1 organism in this universe really doesn't fucking matter at all.
[/QUOTE]
Biological diversity is probably one of the most important things for us, humans, and our tiny little ball.
Anytime I get into conversations about things like this someone has to throw out this big shlong of a red herring about 'the universe' and I'm about ready to start responding in R'lyehian.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=cxcxxxxx;48347811]Great, now only if we could get thousands of people to care about the dozens of nameless lions that die much worse deaths from starvation, disease, and human interference each year, then maybe we could get something done.
Every armchair convservationist is up in arms about whats trending, and its going to mean jack shit to the status of the lion, as all this attention and e-activism is about cecil, not the species.[/QUOTE]
The best way to stop it would be to stop the markets for it.
Which are based in South East Asia more often than not.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48348036]Biological diversity is probably one of the most important things for us, humans, and our tiny little ball.
Anytime I get into conversations about things like this someone has to throw out this big shlong of a red herring about 'the universe' and I'm about ready to start responding in R'lyehian.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
The best way to stop it would be to stop the markets for it.
Which are based in South East Asia more often than not.[/QUOTE]
The markets for what? Habitat loss? Human encroachment? Lack of genetic diversity due to scarcity of established parks?
Habitat loss is the most significant threat to the lions bar none. The death of cecil has no bearing on the overall population status when the population is being forced to inbreed in some areas due to the scarcity of protected land.
Second to that is "human interaction". A broad term, that some will probably take to mean "minnesota dentists" but what it really refers to is the encroachment of humans upon protected, or non protected lion territory. The interaction that results from this usually entails bush farmers posioning, trapping, and killing the lions that threaten the cattle they depend on to live.
[QUOTE=Kigen;48347186]There is a big difference between subsistence hunting and trophy hunting, Cutthecrap.
Trophy hunting is just for pride saying, "I killed this lion." Then they leave a majority of the body to waste away.
Subsistence is obviously for eating, and survival. Just like what happens normally in the wild. Where people generally are expected to use as much of the animal as possible and not waste it.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a really bad argument. If you're living in the US you probably have all the resources necessary to live an animal-free, vegetarian lifestyle. We eat meat because we [i]like[/i] to, not because we have to or because it's more efficient. By just about every metric animal consumption is massively wasteful and energy-intensive, but we sustain it because we enjoy the taste of meat so much.
Arguing that trophy hunting is wrong because it's unnecessary, wasteful killing seems massively hypocritical to me when it's coming from people who eat meat because they like it. What makes killing animals for flavor better than killing animals for trophies?
No, I am not a vegetarian. Yes, I think cruelty matters, and if an animal is to be killed then it's important to do it humanely to minimize the suffering of the animal. Yes, it matters if the animal is endangered or protected, and poaching is absolutely not okay. And yes, this is a little different in the third-world where vegetarianism isn't a viable option, and people use every bit of the animal, and killing is a practical necessity. But in principle, if you live in a society that raises and kills animals for the pleasure that can be derived from their meat rather than practical necessity, I don't think the argument that trophy hunting is wasteful and unnecessary has any merit.
We readily accept killing animals for pleasure, and whether that pleasure is a plateful of brisket or a rush of adrenaline and skull on the wall doesn't seem like a particularly meaningful distinction to me.
What happened is sad, no doubt, but if this lion didn't have a name nobody would have given half as much of a shit as they claim they do
Not sure about extradition but this guy should at the very least face charges in the US for poaching. Hunting in general when not done for the greater good (population/disease culls) is wrong to begin with and I don't doubt that this guy knew it was fishy business.
[QUOTE=Skyward;48349733]What happened is sad, no doubt, but if this lion didn't have a name nobody would have given half as much of a shit as they claim they do[/QUOTE]
well, Zimbabwe is pissed because it was a protected lion that they named and loved. Then some guy from America comes along, lures him out of the protected zone and kills him with a crossbow.
[QUOTE=ridinmybike;48350332]well, Zimbabwe is pissed because it was a protected lion that they named and loved. Then some guy from America comes along, lures him out of the protected zone and kills him with a crossbow.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, they have a right to be. I'm more referring to all the asshats you see that have no reason to care beyond making themselves look better for it.
[QUOTE=ridinmybike;48350332]well, Zimbabwe is pissed because it was a protected lion that they named and loved. Then some guy from America comes along, lures him out of the protected zone and kills him with a crossbow.[/QUOTE]
Im pretty sure there were no zimbabweans involved in this.....
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;48350047]Not sure about extradition but this guy should at the very least face charges in the US for poaching. Hunting in general when not done for the greater good (population/disease culls) is wrong to begin with and I don't doubt that this guy knew it was fishy business.[/QUOTE]
Kinda hard to charge someone with poaching if it wasnt hunted on US grounds... or possibly, you know, not even poached.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48347879]Don't extradite him to fucking Zimbabwe because of an overrated lion.[/QUOTE]
Extradite him because he has no regard for their nation's laws.
[editline]2nd August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skyward;48349733]What happened is sad, no doubt, but if this lion didn't have a name nobody would have given half as much of a shit as they claim they do[/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself. I'd rather have the lion living to this day than this dentist that needs to kill things to get himself hard for his wife.
[QUOTE=download;48345494]While he's an idiot for not checking that his guide had all the proper documentation and licenses to hunt a lion, I don't think he's a criminal.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
There are also far more important things in the world for all those people to be outraged at than a lion.[/QUOTE]
Ignorance of the law does not excuse
There is no way to defend this. He paid people to do it. For the sake of argument, it isn't like he was the ignorant American tourist breaking some random inane rule. He paid people to lead a lion, the animal known as "king of the jungle" off of a sanctuary and killed it in order to say "it wasn't on your property! It's legal here!"
[QUOTE=download;48345494]While he's an idiot for not checking that his guide had all the proper documentation and licenses to hunt a lion, I don't think he's a criminal.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
There are also far more important things in the world for all those people to be outraged at than a lion.[/QUOTE]
He saw that the lion had a GPS collar, and then beheaded the lion to remove it, before disposing of it. Himself.
He's also had charges of illegal game hunting before, and that's not even getting into his personal issues. The guy's a piece of shit, not worth defending.
He should be extradited to Zimbabwe. The Netherlands has extradited criminals to the United States where they then received the death penalty. This man should face consequences for his actions. The United States should uphold the extradition treaty.
[QUOTE=Satansick;48364976]He should be extradited to Zimbabwe. The Netherlands has extradited criminals to the United States where they then received the death penalty. This man should face consequences for his actions. The United States should uphold the extradition treaty.[/QUOTE]
I thought most European nation's extradition treaties specifically state they cannot be served the death sentence if handed over.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48365067]I thought most European nation's extradition treaties specifically state they cannot be served the death sentence if handed over.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about other European countries but the Netherlands and the United States have a bilateral treating that says criminals have to be extradited no matter what punishment they may get.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48352052]He saw that the lion had a GPS collar, and then beheaded the lion to remove it, before disposing of it. Himself.
He's also had charges of illegal game hunting before, and that's not even getting into his personal issues. The guy's a piece of shit, not worth defending.[/QUOTE]
No, he paid local guides to organize a legal lion hunt for him. Unless the law specifically states your not allowed to lure animals out of park areas in order to hunt them, then this [I]was[/I] a legal hunt (the specific lion having a tracking collar does not make this illegal). And even if the law does dictate that you can't lure animals out of the park, then any blame would attach to the guides, because possibly-to-probably he didn't know they'd done this.
When Mugabe himself is calling for the hunter to be extradited then you can be certain this will not be a fair trial, he will be found guilty whether or not he's broken the law.
But hey, the same people calling for him to be extradited are also perfectly fine with harassing his daughter just because she's related to him, so that would probably fit with their definition of "justice" anyway.
[QUOTE=Skyward;48349733]What happened is sad, no doubt, but if this lion didn't have a name nobody would have given half as much of a shit as they claim they do[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's how humans work buddy, we're naturally more empathetic towards things we can relate to. Why the fuck is that even a good argument to you, 'what about the thousands of other nameless ones who died?' Go read about any other atrocity against a large group in history, its called having a symbol. Elie Wiesel was in no way an important individual, except for the fact that he helped to provide a relatable face and story for these people that suffered.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48366637]Yeah that's how humans work buddy, we're naturally more empathetic towards things we can relate to. Why the fuck is that even a good argument to you, 'what about the thousands of other nameless ones who died?' Go read about any other atrocity against a large group in history, its called having a symbol. Elie Wiesel was in no way an important individual, except for the fact that he helped to provide a relatable face and story for these people that suffered.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but that's not an excuse to display such an irrational behaviour. Just because this animal has a name means there should be a goddamn outrage over the death of a single individual that's not even part of an endangered species, not in this part of Africa at least. If there's something to be outraged about it's industrial-scale poaching that actually put many species on the verge of extinction to either satisfy some archaic beliefs from east Asia or to carve the ivory they provide. But no, I guess 'symbols' matter more so let's make an example of this random dude, I'm sure this will greatly intimidate actual poachers, even though they are often part of powerful criminal organisations and won't give a fuck about some American dentist being lynched.
I'm a fan of the shoot to kill poacher policy that African Nations have been adopting. There's no excuse for trophy hunting, and if this is what's needed to stop it, then go ahead without remorse.
[url]http://www.littlethings.com/kinessa-johnson-army-vet-africa-poachers/[/url]
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