• HTC Vive is going to cost $799. Will come with two games bundled. And Vive Phone Services.
    242 replies, posted
I think comparing VR's expensiveness as a new technology to flat-screen TVs and smartphones is silly. A vast majority of people watched TV and owned a cell-phone. Flat-screens provided space-saving and sometimes picture quality improvements over their previous counterparts, and smart phones provided a very mobile way to access a lot of information. Since these innovations were for types of technologies that tons of people use and are familiar with, they caught on. The current VR stuff on the other hand is an entirely [I]peripheral[/I] market for specific games and systems. People already spend a good deal of money on the base systems. Meanwhile, a flat-screen still acts as your TV, and a smartphone still acts as a phone, but VR headsets require something else that is most likely also expensive to be used at all.
[QUOTE=salty peanut v2;49787036]I still can't see VR being practical for any game that isn't first person horror or first person simulation like ARMA or something, so only a handful of games. you're not gonna benefit from a VR headset over simple mouselook in any other more fast-paced game where immersion isn't the priority[/QUOTE] twitch shooters won't benefit much from it, no. Rift games are about the presence of the environment and you in it. That DOES make horror games a prime candidate, and fast things can work well when done well, IE racing and other cockpit-based games. There's limitations to what it can do for current gaming standards but at the same time it opens up possibilities we haven't had the chance to consider before
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49787434] Also it comes with extras. 2 games and controllers, right? IIRC doesn't the Oculus Rift NOT come with extras like this? So it might be worth it.[/QUOTE] Rift is bundled with two free games as well.
[QUOTE=simkas;49787376]"Design" isn't just how it looks.[/QUOTE] In that case I'd have to ask what objective design benefits the Vive offers over the Rift. Is how much it weighs part of it? If so, that's a minus for the Vive.
[QUOTE=J!NX;49787437]This is way different though A huge part of buying a car is self image. This is more like buying headphones based on appearance and "but I dont wants" If cars weren't largely based on design and image, ricers wouldnt exist[/QUOTE] ok is it actually a problem that i prefer the design of the vive and its controller over the rift's or are you trying to find something to jump on my dick about why is caring about design ok for cars but not for headphones and VR? did you think that might only a personal preference and doesn't apply to everyone else? why don't we just strap bare circuit-boards and wires over our face? also literally who gives a shit if i like the look of one VR over the other
[QUOTE=Jund;49787505]ok is it actually a problem that i prefer the design of the vive and its controller over the rift's or are you trying to find something to jump on my dick about why is caring about design ok for cars but not for headphones and VR? did you think that might only a personal preference and doesn't apply to everyone else? why don't we just strap bare circuit-boards and wires over our face? also literally who gives a shit if i like the look of one VR over the other[/QUOTE] People give a shit because it's a $200 difference and you're taking looks into account when you have explicitly stated that you're not really into room scale which means you'd be perfectly well off with the Rift that has less screen door effect anyway and is lighter
[QUOTE=J!NX;49787437] And when you buy based on "but I dont want I want" you end up with nothing, deal with what's available or don't bother[/QUOTE] i say "it would be nice if i didn't have to pay for room tracking" and suddenly i'm a spoiled whining crybaby who can't deal with the [B]hard choices[/B] in life that come from purchasing video game peripherals what is your damage [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787526]People give a shit because it's a $200 difference and you're taking looks into account when you have explicitly stated that you're not really into room scale which means you'd be perfectly well off with the Rift that has less screen door effect anyway and is lighter[/QUOTE] yeah and part of the $200 is from the room scale so maybe i'd prefer a cheaper option without it while still having the advantages the vive has over the rift??
[QUOTE=Jund;49787539]i say "it would be nice if i didn't have to pay for room tracking" and suddenly i'm a spoiled whining crybaby who can't deal with the [B]hard choices[/B] in life what is your damage [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] yeah and part of the $200 is from the room scale so maybe i'd prefer a cheaper option without it while still having the advantages the vive has over the rift??[/QUOTE] The advantages the Vive has over the rift that don't include room scale stuff? That's, well... nothing at all? Taking into account that when I say "room scale stuff" that includes the motion controls coming with the Vive and not later.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787555]The advantages the Vive has over the rift that don't include room scale stuff? That's, well... nothing at all?[/QUOTE] Front camera.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787555]The advantages the Vive has over the rift that don't include room scale stuff? That's, well... nothing at all?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jund;49787286]I prefer the HTC Vive's technology, design, and support over the Oculus Rift's, but I would like the option to not have to pay extra for room tracking, a feature I probably won't use.[/QUOTE] you even replied to the post reading hard [QUOTE=Jund;49787206]and only the display res and refresh rate are the same, the tracking tech and cameras are not[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=woolio1;49786266]These threads always seem to strike a nerve... Why is VR such a polarizing issue?[/QUOTE] because people are afraid that Oculus+facebook will turn the VR landscape into a shitty console war because of their walled garden (Oculus's VR API is closed and only works with Oculus. Vive Is open source VR with SteamVR and any headset can use SteamVR, even oculus.) usual Oculus supporters use the "it doesn't mean it's exclusive to oculus" reasoning but it still damages people who bought the vive to play VR then realizing they can't play new games because its oculus only currently. They are fragmenting the market. Thats the only reason i support the vive over the oculus. other features are bonuses. People need to lay down the right foundation or VR will be kil again.
[QUOTE=Jund;49787577]you even replied to the post reading hard[/QUOTE] The "tracking tech", since you're not interested in room scale, turns out exactly the same, it's not like the vive's is more precise. And what does "support" even mean anyway?
[QUOTE=Jund;49787131]i like the design over the rift's and most triple a games won't have controller tracking anyway, just indie games and tech demos[/QUOTE] Why does this matter? Indie developer are inherently more creative and experimental than AAA devs who only fund guaranteed to sell formulaic nonsense. VR is a definitively experimental platform right now so it's only fitting that indie developers take charge. This isn't the same indie market as lame XNA pixel art platformers flooding Greenlight.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787593]The "tracking tech", since you're not interested in room scale, turns out exactly the same, it's not like the vive's is more precise. And what does "support" even mean anyway?[/QUOTE] game, dev, and tech support due to being made by a major company and being backed by another one? [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=srobins;49787610]Why does this matter? Indie developer are inherently more creative and experimental than AAA devs who only fund guaranteed to sell formulaic nonsense. VR is a definitively experimental platform right now so it's only fitting that indie developers take charge. This isn't the same indie market as lame XNA pixel art platformers flooding Greenlight.[/QUOTE] maybe i like first person action/driving/flying games more than picking stuff up and putting them down for 30 minutes before getting bored? or that perhaps having full 3d immersion with a good story, characters, graphics, and gameplay can give a gaming experience that most indie devs are unable to [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] it's fine if you like job simulator but is it really a problem for you if i want to pretend like i'm in tamriel?
I'm sorry but at this price VR will have a hard time taking off. You guys are all mentioning flat screen TV's and shit but that's a terrible example. People that couldn't afford flat screens could still buy/use their old tube televisions. Nobody is going to make anything for VR if the user base is small. It's going to be like developing games for a console that has no user base.
[QUOTE=Jund;49787663]game, dev, and tech support due to being made by a major company and being backed by another one? [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] maybe i like first person action/driving/flying games more than picking stuff up and putting them down for 30 minutes before getting bored? or that perhaps having full 3d immersion with a good story, characters, graphics, and gameplay can give a gaming experience that most indie devs are unable to [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] it's fine if you like job simulator but is it really a problem for you if i want to pretend like i'm in tamriel?[/QUOTE] Wow, great point. I totally forgot indie devs are legally required to only produce "picking things up" simulators. What exactly makes you think AAA games will target gamepads but not touch input? Depending on the market split between Rift and Vive, 50% of the PC VR market could have touch input right out the gate, and once Oculus gets their act together and releases Touch, a majority (according to pretty much every poll conducted on the issue) of Rift owners will have Touch as well. [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=aydin690;49787742]I'm sorry but at this price VR will have a hard time taking off. You guys are all mentioning flat screen TV's and shit but that's a terrible example. People that couldn't afford flat screens could still buy/use their old tube televisions. Nobody is going to make anything for VR if the user base is small. It's going to be like developing games for a console that has no user base.[/QUOTE] The user base is small in terms of the massive number of general PC gamers, but with that niche nature comes a much more forgiving market. Because of the lack of content and the "revolutionary" nature of the controls and new gameplay design made possible by VR, developers don't have to sink a couple million into a game just to make it stand out from the ocean of PC games available. VR customers will be more likely to buy your game because there's infinitely less competition, which turns the niche nature of the market in favor of developers.
[QUOTE=srobins;49787755]Wow, great point. I totally forgot indie devs are legally required to only produce "picking things up" simulators. What exactly makes you think AAA games will target gamepads but not touch input? Depending on the market split between Rift and Vive, 50% of the PC VR market could have touch input right out the gate, and once Oculus gets their act together and releases Touch, a majority (according to pretty much every poll conducted on the issue) of Rift owners will have Touch as well.[/QUOTE] because even if VR kicks off for PC it may take years for it to become big for consoles if at all, meaning ports won't have major gameplay elements revolving around VR controllers there won't be many big name devs willing to drop console sales for VR exclusivity
[QUOTE=Jund;49787663]game, dev, and tech support due to being made by a major company and being backed by another one?[/QUOTE] ...you say as Oculus is backed by one of the biggest companies ever, Facebook, and as the rift has just as many games as the vive has if not many more? Very few games will be exclusive to either HMD either way, if [I]any[/I] in the long run. [QUOTE=Jund;49787663]maybe i like first person action/driving/flying games more than picking stuff up and putting them down for 30 minutes before getting bored? or that perhaps having full 3d immersion with a good story, characters, graphics, and gameplay can give a gaming experience that most indie devs are unable to[/QUOTE] ...Hence why the Rift is perfect for you since it tracks your head motions just as well with more comfort due to being lighter and also having less screen door effect? I don't see why you're making a huge deal out of a simple issue, to be honest. You're basically posting reasons why the rift would work fine for you, and then getting condescending when people point that out. Yes, the vive will do you just as well for seated experiences as the Rift unless you [I]really[/I] hate the screen door effect and won't be playing for such a long period of time that the Vive's weight would bother you. But since you apparently don't want room-scale or even the motion controllers for more than 30 minutes, you'd basically be paying an extra $200 for the front-facing camera. If that's alright with you, what's the problem here?
Look at Hover Junkers: as a non-VR game it wouldn't stand a chance. It's a simple deathmatch game put together by like 8 guys, yet it's a massive success even before release just by virtue of existing in such an empty market. [editline]21st February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Jund;49787772]because even if VR kicks off for PC it may take years for it to become big for consoles if at all, meaning ports won't have major gameplay elements revolving around VR controllers there won't be many big name devs willing to drop console sales for VR exclusivity[/QUOTE] Why does it matter for consoles at all? See my response to Aydin.
[QUOTE=aydin690;49787742]I'm sorry but at this price VR will have a hard time taking off. You guys are all mentioning flat screen TV's and shit but that's a terrible example. People that couldn't afford flat screens could still buy/use their old tube televisions. Nobody is going to make anything for VR if the user base is small. It's going to be like developing games for a console that has no user base.[/QUOTE] Developing for a niche is sure to get you sales, just look at racing sims Not many people are willing to spend $300 on a force feedback steering wheel but the ones that do will almost certainly buy your game
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787777]...you say as Oculus is backed by one of the biggest companies ever, Facebook, and as the rift has just as many games as the vive has if not many more? Very few games will be exclusive to either HMD either way, if [I]any[/I] in the long run.[/quote] fb isn't exactly famous for being a hardware or gaming company though [quote]Yes, the vive will do you just as well for seated experiences as the Rift unless you [I]really[/I] hate the screen door effect and won't be playing for such a long period of time that the Vive's weight would bother you. But since you apparently don't want room-scale or even the motion controllers for more than 30 minutes, you'd basically be paying an extra $200 for the front-facing camera. If that's alright with you, what's the problem here?[/QUOTE] when did i ever say that i'm ok with paying $200 for a front facing camera? for the 50 millionth time, i said that [b]it'd be nice if i had the option of buying the vive without having to pay for room tracking[/B]. holy shit, reading must be real hard and i never even said i'm buying either of them
[QUOTE=Jund;49787816]fb isn't exactly famous for being a hardware or gaming company though when did i ever say that i'm ok with paying $200 for a front facing camera? for the 50 millionth time, i said that [b]it'd be nice if i had the option of buying the vive without having to pay for room tracking[/B]. holy shit, reading must be real hard and i never even said i'm buying either of them[/QUOTE] ...And then you start with this nonsense, [I]oooh boooy reading is hard! Poor old me is being misunderstood![/I] Get over yourself, why are you so defensive? Nobody here is trying to get you to buy shit, we don't work for Oculus or HTC. The Vive without room tracking [B]loses its point[/B]. That's what they've been marketing towards all this time, and all the advantages the Vive has are geared towards more functional room-scale. What you are saying is basically "I wish the Vive were more like the Rift".
Remember that HTC sells the Vive with profit, Oculus sells the Rift at cost. A lot of the $200 is not because of room tracking.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787836]...And then you start with this nonsense, [I]oooh boooy reading is hard! Poor old me is being misunderstood![/I] Get over yourself, why are you so defensive? Nobody here is trying to get you to buy shit, we don't work for Oculus or HTC. The Vive without room tracking [B]loses its point[/B]. That's what they've been marketing towards all this time, and all the advantages the Vive has are geared towards more functional room-scale. What you are saying is basically "I wish the Vive were more like the Rift".[/QUOTE] i keep saying that you can't read because i already posted the differences between the two (support, camera, controllers, hell even throw in vive's taller fov) but you keep ignoring them
People saying it's $200 for room scale are seriously inept at basic logic. Assuming Touch is $200, room scale is literally a free feature. Want to know how much you're paying for room scale, chaperone, front camera, and phone services? Take the price of the Vive, subtract the price of a Rift and Touch. Voila, brought to you by 4th grade math.
[QUOTE=srobins;49787872]People saying it's $200 for room scale are seriously inept at basic logic. Assuming Touch is $200, room scale is literally a free feature. Want to know how much you're paying for room scale, chaperone, front camera, and phone services? Take the price of the Vive, subtract the price of a Rift and Touch. Voila, brought to you by 4th grade math.[/QUOTE] except you have no idea how much touch costs, so why are you assuming it's $200 when the net profit for each VR unit isn't even the same
[QUOTE=Jund;49787869]i keep saying that you can't read because i already posted the differences between the two (support, camera, controllers, hell even throw in vive's taller fov) but you keep ignoring them[/QUOTE] I don't ignore them, I'm refuting them based on what you say you wish were optional in the Vive, but you're going in circles. The camera is the way it is because room scale, you don't seem to want the controllers and they too are intended for room-scale experiences, and the vive's taller FoV is just as much of an advantage as the rift's horizontal FOV (I'd actually argue that horizontal is more important but let's not go there), and "support" doesn't actually mean anything as both HMDs have very strong support from big companies, both HMDs have a variety of games + a ton of games being developed for them, and [I]how in the world[/I] would you know what the "tech support" is like for these products when they're not even out yet?
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;49787906]I don't ignore them, I'm refuting them, but you're going in circles. The camera is the way it is because room scale, you don't seem to want the controllers and they too are intended for room-scale experiences, and the vive's taller FoV is just as much of an advantage as the rift's horizontal FOV (I'd actually argue that horizontal is more important but let's not go there), and "support" doesn't actually mean anything as both HMDs have very strong support from big companies, both HMDs have a variety of games + a ton of games being developed for them, and [I]how in the world[/I] would you know what the "tech support" is like for these products when they're not even out yet?[/QUOTE] i like the camera because it gives me a view of my surroundings without having the take off the headset. afaik both have the same horizontal fov but vive has more vertical. support DOES mean something because not all games will be developed for both and have the same amount of support for both it's as shallow as a non-tech person saying apple and samsung phones are the same or the xbone and ps4 are the same because they perform the same basic functions, they're only made by different companies
[QUOTE=Jund;49787888]except you have no idea how much touch costs, so why are you assuming it's $200 when the net profit for each VR unit isn't even the same[/QUOTE] I'm not claiming to see into the future but I think $100-200 is a pretty safe estimate for the price of Touch, and you can optionally include the price of an extra camera (for room scale equivalency) as well as shipping costs on top of that. Keep in mind with the Rift+Touch you're paying for shipping twice.
[QUOTE=Jund;49787941]i like the camera because it gives me a view of my surroundings without having the take off the headset. afaik both have the same horizontal fov but vive has more vertical. support DOES mean something because not all games will be developed for both and have the same amount of support for both it's as shallow as a non-tech person saying apple and samsung phones are the same or the xbone and ps4 are the same because they perform the same basic functions, just made by different companies[/QUOTE] They don't have the same horizontal FoV. And as for the games, currently the Rift has more launch titles IIRC, and that's not gonna be an issue in the long run anyway. Exclusives aren't gonna be a big thing like they are in consoles, and I don't understand your reasoning for believing the Rift will recieve less support anyway. To me, it seems to stem purely from your bad mental image of Oculus for being born as a small company anyway, or a dislike for Facebook, and both of these seem unreasonable as reasons for lack of support for the Rift.
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