Change.org Petition Wants ANTIFA Declared a ‘Terrorist Organization’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795746]It's not about the specific views of those ideologies, but ideology itself. Whether or not other ideologies see war as desirable is irrelevant, because it's not about that specifically.[/QUOTE] What do you mean with specific views of those ideologies? Pure marxism doesn't see violence as a part of human nature.

[QUOTE=eirexe;51795715]I never condoned killing fascists. But I don't get the whole killing fascists makes you fascist, it makes no sense, the violent antifa minority does not see violence as an inherently necessary part of human nature, they see violence as means to an end which is to destroy fascists and make them vanish from the face of earth. Other antifas use other methods besides from debating and killing or destroying property, like the Spanish anti-fascist protests in the day of hispanity.[/QUOTE] The reason people find fascists detestable is [b]because[/b] they use violence to silence and destroy their opposition. [b]You cannot use violence to destroy your (not actually violent) opposition without being fascist yourself.[/b] If a nazi tries to murder someone, absolutely do whatever you need to stop him. If someone isn't actually being violent, then using violence against them to silence their ideology is fascism.

[QUOTE=eirexe;51795751]What do you mean with specific views of those ideologies? Pure marxism doesn't see violence as a part of human nature.[/QUOTE] It's irrelevant whether or not Marxism sees violence as a part of human nature.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51794357]I hate fascism. But antifa is a danger to people like me, as it legitimizes other violent groups, and it helps nobody. I'd sign we're I not on mobile.[/QUOTE] And signed. Fuck these thugs.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795759]And signed. Fuck these thugs.[/QUOTE] I don't see why you'd sign after I just explained how extremists don't represent a movement but I guess you own a set of deaf ears

Does nobody see the danger of a blanket label of antifa as a terrorist organization negatively affecting the non-violent activists (who make of the majority) of antifa? By this standard, BLM should be a hate group because its sympathizers have used violence in the past. For people who claim to be pro-free speech, many of you seem awfully willing to give the state extra authority to discriminate against "undesirables."

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795534]Sources and stats bud im tired of your strawmen every thread[/QUOTE] [url]https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7/status/826982230421483520[/url] [url]http://abc7news.com/news/video-trump-supporter-pepper-sprayed-at-milo-protest/1733004/[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/AlexR_DC/status/799786749736218624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/Americooligan/status/827189826713710592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/01/23/20170124_limo.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Berkeley-College-Republicans-Report-Harassment-Following-Milo-Protest-412965603.html[/url] [url]http://i.imgur.com/HqBupVa.png[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/constantnatalie/status/801158044004421633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5smpbv/just_antifa_things/ddgq7xm/[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/4kdfv7/why_are_most_of_the_reddit_anarchists_just/d3e952r/[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5peprq/why_not_get_violent/[/url] [url]http://heatst.com/tech/reddits-anarchists-propose-mass-violence-riots-and-terrorism-against-the-government/[/url] [url]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/20/19/3C54A2A500000578-0-image-a-169_1484939521771.jpg[/url] [url]https://www.newsflare.com/video/86652/conflict-disaster/greece-antifa-attack-undercover-police-with-molotovs[/url] [url]http://www.ibtimes.com/what-antifa-anti-fascist-group-behind-violent-berkeley-protest-against-milo-2485217[/url] (It was the same anti-fascist movement that was behind the “Disrupt J20” protests in Washington, D.C., on the day of Trump’s inauguration, leading to injuries to police officers, who retaliated with pepper spray and stun grenades.) [B]nycantifa[/B] (blog dedicated for doxxing, not linking it here) [url]https://68.media.tumblr.com/26b84eea82c7a6bbb5e724cfed6656dc/tumblr_oghhiqrMQ11s9ccq2o1_1280.jpg[/url] (from disruptj20) [url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C355_7rWIAEP-eM.jpg[/url] (Needs confirmation as far as I know) [url]https://twitter.com/JPY_Kurdish/status/827063021335871489[/url] And many, many more that I get absolutely sick of seeing everyday. Y'know, I went through blogs ran by people who labelled themselves ANTIFA, and it was really, really hard to see the opposite of violence, they were mostly advocating violence to fight violence and I just think that's kinda fucked up.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795758]It's irrelevant whether or not Marxism sees violence as a part of human nature.[/QUOTE] Then what you said it makes no sense.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795765]I don't see why you'd sign after I just explained how extremists don't represent a movement but I guess you own a set of deaf ears[/QUOTE] They do represent the movement when Plenty of antifa protests erupt into violence, or that a disconcertingly high number of their supporters condone violence

The thing is, it'd be really understandable if ANTIFA were actually specifically targeting [b]actually violent people[/b] and trying to stop them. It'd still be illegal, but at least they would have some sense of rationality. Instead, they're targeting people they brand as being [b]potentially violent[/b], at some point in the future, maybe. They are [b]initiating[/b] the violence. They are using violence to silence non-violent people. That's a core tenet of fascism.

[QUOTE=eirexe;51795774]Then what you said it makes no sense.[/QUOTE] It's about being an ideology itself. Not the specific views of the ideology.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51795767][url]https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7/status/826982230421483520[/url] [url]http://abc7news.com/news/video-trump-supporter-pepper-sprayed-at-milo-protest/1733004/[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/AlexR_DC/status/799786749736218624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/Americooligan/status/827189826713710592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/01/23/20170124_limo.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Berkeley-College-Republicans-Report-Harassment-Following-Milo-Protest-412965603.html[/url] [url]http://i.imgur.com/HqBupVa.png[/url] [url]https://twitter.com/constantnatalie/status/801158044004421633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5smpbv/just_antifa_things/ddgq7xm/[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/4kdfv7/why_are_most_of_the_reddit_anarchists_just/d3e952r/[/url] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5peprq/why_not_get_violent/[/url] [url]http://heatst.com/tech/reddits-anarchists-propose-mass-violence-riots-and-terrorism-against-the-government/[/url] [url]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/20/19/3C54A2A500000578-0-image-a-169_1484939521771.jpg[/url] [url]https://www.newsflare.com/video/86652/conflict-disaster/greece-antifa-attack-undercover-police-with-molotovs[/url] [url]http://www.ibtimes.com/what-antifa-anti-fascist-group-behind-violent-berkeley-protest-against-milo-2485217[/url] (It was the same anti-fascist movement that was behind the “Disrupt J20” protests in Washington, D.C., on the day of Trump’s inauguration, leading to injuries to police officers, who retaliated with pepper spray and stun grenades.) [B]nycantifa[/B] (blog dedicated for doxxing, not linking it here) [url]https://68.media.tumblr.com/26b84eea82c7a6bbb5e724cfed6656dc/tumblr_oghhiqrMQ11s9ccq2o1_1280.jpg[/url] (from disruptj20) [url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C355_7rWIAEP-eM.jpg[/url] (Needs confirmation as far as I know) [url]https://twitter.com/JPY_Kurdish/status/827063021335871489[/url] And many, many more that I get absolutely sick of seeing everyday. Y'know, I went through blogs ran by people who labelled themselves ANTIFA, and it was really, really hard to see the opposite of violence, they were mostly advocating violence to fight violence and I just think that's kinda fucked up.[/QUOTE] Before I tackle these I'd like to point out you linked anarchism sub which is already off the beaten path. Most of these links doesn't prove it's not anarchists or a majority of violent people. If I linked you a similar amount of links that Brazilians are all violent uncivilized people, would that make it correct?

Far right and far left can both fuck right off. Instead of compromises between different left and right leaning views to actually solve problems you get black and white "solutions" which don't help anyone.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795775]They do represent the movement when Plenty of antifa protests erupt into violence, or that a disconcertingly high number of their supporters condone violence[/QUOTE] Can you give statistic proof of this. You don't even know how many protests they have I bet

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795783]It's about being an ideology itself. Not the specific views of the ideology.[/QUOTE] I still don't get what you mean, yeah, marxism is an ideology, and what about it?, you could not replace fascism with marxism in that phrase because marxism is not inherently violent.

[QUOTE=geel9;51795781]The thing is, it'd be really understandable if ANTIFA were actually specifically targeting [b]actually violent people[/b] and trying to stop them. It'd still be illegal, but at least they would have some sense of rationality. Instead, they're targeting people they brand as being [b]potentially violent[/b], at some point in the future, maybe. They are [b]initiating[/b] the violence. They are using violence to silence non-violent people. That's a core tenet of fascism.[/QUOTE] They go after thoughtcrime

Zillamaster and senhor. Give me stats. Not anecdote

[QUOTE=eirexe;51795792]I still don't get what you mean, yeah, marxism is an ideology, and what about it?, you could not replace fascism with marxism in that phrase because marxism is not inherently violent.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter if any ideology is inherently violent. It is still an ideology.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795800]Zillamaster and senhor. Give me stats. Not anecdote[/QUOTE] If he wants anecdotal evidence here's some: I'm an antifa myself, and I have attended protests and other events with felows antifas, and we have never caused trouble, but no one talks about that, because it doesn't fit the narrative that antifa is a terrorist organization. [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795802]It doesn't matter if any ideology is inherently violent. It is still an ideology.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but the original phrase wouldn't work if the ideology you replace fascism with is inherently non-violent, because the phrase refers to that ideology as violent.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795802]It doesn't matter if any ideology is inherently violent. It is still an ideology.[/QUOTE] What? Seriously, what are you arguing? That all ideologies are created equal no matter their content (and therefore should be treated the same)? Talk about a false equivalency.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51795767][URL]https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7/status/826982230421483520[/URL] [URL]http://abc7news.com/news/video-trump-supporter-pepper-sprayed-at-milo-protest/1733004/[/URL] [URL]https://twitter.com/AlexR_DC/status/799786749736218624?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/URL] [URL]https://twitter.com/Americooligan/status/827189826713710592?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/URL] [URL]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/01/23/20170124_limo.jpg[/URL] [URL]http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Berkeley-College-Republicans-Report-Harassment-Following-Milo-Protest-412965603.html[/URL] [URL]http://i.imgur.com/HqBupVa.png[/URL] [URL]https://twitter.com/constantnatalie/status/801158044004421633?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/URL] [URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5smpbv/just_antifa_things/ddgq7xm/[/URL] [URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/4kdfv7/why_are_most_of_the_reddit_anarchists_just/d3e952r/[/URL] [URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/5peprq/why_not_get_violent/[/URL] [URL]http://heatst.com/tech/reddits-anarchists-propose-mass-violence-riots-and-terrorism-against-the-government/[/URL] [URL]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/20/19/3C54A2A500000578-0-image-a-169_1484939521771.jpg[/URL] [URL]https://www.newsflare.com/video/86652/conflict-disaster/greece-antifa-attack-undercover-police-with-molotovs[/URL] [URL]http://www.ibtimes.com/what-antifa-anti-fascist-group-behind-violent-berkeley-protest-against-milo-2485217[/URL] (It was the same anti-fascist movement that was behind the “Disrupt J20” protests in Washington, D.C., on the day of Trump’s inauguration, leading to injuries to police officers, who retaliated with pepper spray and stun grenades.) [B]nycantifa[/B] (blog dedicated for doxxing, not linking it here) [URL]https://68.media.tumblr.com/26b84eea82c7a6bbb5e724cfed6656dc/tumblr_oghhiqrMQ11s9ccq2o1_1280.jpg[/URL] (from disruptj20) [URL]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C355_7rWIAEP-eM.jpg[/URL] (Needs confirmation as far as I know) [URL]https://twitter.com/JPY_Kurdish/status/827063021335871489[/URL] And many, many more that I get absolutely sick of seeing everyday. Y'know, I went through blogs ran by people who labelled themselves ANTIFA, and it was really, really hard to see the opposite of violence, they were mostly advocating violence to fight violence and I just think that's kinda fucked up.[/QUOTE] Done going through it. Here's what i noticed. [IMG]http://puu.sh/tUgnA/f4b8dce7b7.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/tUgoo/b89f41d9cf.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/20/19/3C54A2A500000578-0-image-a-169_1484939521771.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]no proof who this is or what he subscribes to theres no context[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://puu.sh/tUguy/bd15decc6b.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]nice source[/QUOTE] [URL]https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7/status/826982230421483520[/URL] [URL]http://abc7news.com/news/video-trump-supporter-pepper-sprayed-at-milo-protest/1733004/[/URL] [URL]https://twitter.com/Americooligan/status/827189826713710592?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/URL] [URL]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2017/01/23/20170124_limo.jpg[/URL] [URL]http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Berkeley-College-Republicans-Report-Harassment-Following-Milo-Protest-412965603.html[/URL] [QUOTE]no proof of it not being anarchists who did this or people not even a part of antifa just attacking people[/QUOTE] [url]https://twitter.com/AlexR_DC/status/799786749736218624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/url] [QUOTE]not violent[/QUOTE] [url]https://twitter.com/dromografosnews/status/777391833362104320[/url] [QUOTE]this is all you have but its a majority huh?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51795788]Far right and far left can both fuck right off. Instead of compromises between different left and right leaning views to actually solve problems you get black and white "solutions" which don't help anyone.[/QUOTE] some things are black and white by nature, like whether or not racism is a good thing. there's no 'ehhhh, racism is fine in moderate doses' and yes im aware of the pun, dont make it

Replace antifa with BLM and the conversation changes immediately. "Woah woah, [I]hate group?[/I] A little harsh, no?"

[QUOTE=papaya;51795835]some things are black and white by nature, like whether or not racism is a good thing. there's no 'ehhhh, racism is fine in moderate doses' and yes im aware of the pun, dont make it[/QUOTE] It seems you're completely misunderstanding the argument. The argument is not about fascism being "bad". The argument is about the proper response to "bad things." I, for one, do not condone random acts of violence against those we determine to be "bad". That's fascist.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795784]Before I tackle these I'd like to point out you linked anarchism sub which is already off the beaten path. Most of these links doesn't prove it's not anarchists or a majority of violent people. If I linked you a similar amount of links that Brazilians are all violent uncivilized people, would that make it correct?[/QUOTE] Most of the links I posted were vandalism acts and people terrorizing each other, most of them being black blocs and antifa. That's pretty much what anarchism is. The anarchism sub talks a lot about antifa and supporting them, not to mention the thread I linked there shows people talking about acquiring weapons to bring in riots and such, even saying that the antifa picture should be in the "complete anarchy" sub-reddit instead. Not to mention this [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Oj1BgvA.png[/IMG] I'm really, really having a hard time here believing that most of the antifa are totally saints. Why would someone peaceful decide to join such group that adopts "skinhead gang fighting techniques?" that doesn't sound peaceful at all.

[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51795853]Most of the links I posted were vandalism acts and people terrorizing each other, most of them being black blocs and antifa. That's pretty much what anarchism is. The anarchism sub talks a lot about antifa and supporting them, not to mention the thread I linked there shows people talking about acquiring weapons to bring in riots and such, even saying that the antifa picture should be in the "complete anarchy" sub-reddit instead. Not to mention this [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Oj1BgvA.png[/IMG] I'm really, really having a hard time here believing that most of the antifa are totally saints. Why would someone peaceful decide to join such group that adopts "skinhead gang fighting techniques?" that doesn't sound peaceful at all.[/QUOTE] Youre on the ANARCHISM sub talking about ANTIFA You can be antifa and not an ANARCHIST what is so hard to understand

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51795788]Far right and far left can both fuck right off. Instead of compromises between different left and right leaning views to actually solve problems you get black and white "solutions" which don't help anyone.[/QUOTE] Classic appeal to moderation. Have you considered that maybe not all of the answers lie on some arbitrarily defined middle ground on an already poor representation of the political spectrum? I'm all for compromise but not all ideologies are created equal and we should not treat them as two sides of the same coin.

you argued before that you can dress up like a nazi and scream 1488 and not be an actual nazi whys this so different [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] again senhor give me STATS give me PROOF that the MAJORITY of antifa protesters are violent

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of antifa in the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on.

rightwing leftwing what does it matter anymore yo